KJF

I will just say that there can be no Bombers or Aircraft Carriers with out advanced flight.

And I prefer to use “boat anchor” place of “cat”

Honestly, I believe it is best to play ultra conservatively with Russia and England and see how the dice line up.  If one Axis power ends up in an exceptionally poor position after their first round, America can then make the choice between KJF or KGF.

However, here is a run down for you:

Kill Germany First:

Easiest strategy.  Everyone is clustered around Germany so coordination is easier.  This is also much more fault tolerant then going after Japan.  However, Germany also has the most assets and the best capability of getting assets, not to mention all of their territories are land locked (comparatively speaking of course) resulting in much easier defense of those territories.  Exceptions are Norway, Algeria and Libya, but those 5 IPC can be made up for in other places if needed (and if not, 35 IPC is still a lot of money.)

Kill Japan First:

Japan’s by far the weakest power on the board.  Their territories are scattered all over the ocean and they start the game facing two moderately powerful fleets.  (UK: 2 Transports, Submarine, Fighter, Carrier, Destroyer in SZ 30 and America’s Battleship, Transport, Destroyer, Submarine, 3 Fighters and Carrier in the Pacific (SZ 52, 55, 20, Hawaii and W. USA.))  However, they also have the benefit of being scattered all over the place making it harder to take their territories (but easier to hold once they are taken.)

If facing a large build up of forces in Buryatia, Sinkiang + Industrial Complex and India + Complex, Japan can find them selves in serious trouble fast; but Germany will have much free’er reign in Europe and Africa.

@newpaintbrush:

So are you saying that the Norway-Wrus-Ukr attack is bad for LL and for ADS for the SAME REASONS?  No, of course not.  See my last post.  Would you like to expound on the idea that what is good for ADS is good for LL and vice versa?  For I disagree.

My contention is that what is good in LL is good in ADS HOWEVER what is good in ADS may not be good in LL.
My point about the nor/wrus/ukr battle is that just b/c you may succeed in certian battles (either individual battles here and there or a few battles taken in the same turn) in LL way way way more in ADS does not make it a sound strategy for the entire game.  And I laid out just a couple of example where you could have high odds battles but it hurts you in the long run (the Moscow scenerio and the crazy ala move etc.)

It is much easier to translate LL strats to ADS.

I don’t think I said this triple would “inevitablely” fail in LL, I believe I said it “may” fail which in a way would confirm what the ADS odds told you in rd 1.
I certainly think there could be a coerrelation between LL odds and ADS odds.

Due to the nature of LL we know you can have a battle of a 100% success, which in ADS may be 90-95%.  I don’t think it is then unreasonable to think that multiple battles in LL where you have 80% success awould translate to maybe 65% in ADS.  Thus it isn’t unreasonable to think a LL battle with 60% success rate may then indeed be 40% in ADS (per your triple example).

So when playing a game in ADS if you have a threshold to actually go through with most battles (say you would like a 60-70% chance to succeed in ADS) that does not mean you’d have 60-70 in LL, the LL odds would probably be much closer to 80.  So when you see a battle at 40% success in ADS it should probably tell you that you have maybe 60% or so in LL BUT those AREN’T great odds for LL, considering you can be much more efficient in your attacks in LL.

60% odds are not that great for LL, considering the best LL players probably should win about 75-80% of their games.  Why lower your standards to 60%?  It just doesn’t make sense to me.  Maybe it is a good opening and causes enough damage to Germany, but I think it can leave Russia a bit too thin.

And yes there are times where 1-1 is a good trade and even times where you come out on the low end but the battle can still be deemed a success, but I don’t think Russia 1 is that time esp since the Axis can usually make an Africa push and Japan can make early gains in Asia, and it still takes the UK/US a few turns to get their shuck going.

Edit:

I should also say that by strat, I mean a series of moves (or buys) that take place over several turns not something a player may do in only one move or one turn.

Hello there

New member on the forum, however I’ve been surfing around here for a few weeks and I’m gonna throw myself into the fray :)
I’m not saying “I know the perfect way” but would like to give you a few advices how to play a defensive Jap and what to think of when on a KJF hunt is coming.

What I first want to say is that our current group plays with no bids, no tech, no NA. Still have a few new players so bids are not needed (yet?).
I have a lot of games behind me, both old and revised.
A lot of this will contain “this gives this and that, all of it ofc changes depending on what the enemy buys/does” and I can’t write all things that can happend and I won’t, this will be a long post anyway :D

What I do as Japan is first of all, avoid pearl if england flies it’s fighter there and you’ve lost the sub (I prefer pearl light), the 2 BB’s are really needed when defending.
The key in my Japanese defensive is to build transports (3 first turn with a followup of INF+ART + ftr if I can afford since you only need to fill 3 Trn, the last one is down in the south taking inf from the southern islands).
Ofc you have to kill China…if you don’t you ARE doomed, seen to many games with US pumping fighters/tanks in sinkiang.

So I prefer killing off the Brittish fleet and China, reinforce FIC from Jap and wait with Buy 1 turn (you get 3 TRN next turn that can massacre Buy)
Japan need to get going, but with a “slow-starter” you will get more troops (IC on mainland is a “fast starter”) and you have time to react if they go all out KJF and adjust for defence instead of offense.

Now when US comes over the pacific there are a few very important things to remember.
1. If he goes for extra bomber+ftr he will be a monster in offense, however his defence is weaker.
2. If he goes for AC you must be prepared for a very strong US fleet and you must equid your carriers with ftr’s.

Now the pacific is big, utilize SZ60 for naval defence if he goes wake island (to be able to use extra fighters) he won’t go for east indies.
Use the fact ftr have 4 in movement (ftr on AC SZ60 has a range 3 inland, and therefore you can move that one in ashore while a fighter ashore also attacks and flies out to the AC. You still reach Yakut and China from Sz60 and ofc FIC, therefore 6 fighters can act both defence for SZ60 and land and still be attacking every round).
The bomber should be in Kwantung as much as possible, same here, it will be able to strike the importand islands and wake island seazone.
(remember this is a defending japan, and that is what you are doing on a KJF, because if japan grows outside Novo/China/india well…then you’re not having a KJF).

What I want is the US fleet trading island in the southern pacific…why? because if the US moves his whole fleet to southern pacific he will be too far away to reinforce it from US and with 3 transports, 2 BB and 2 AC you can take 7 hits before even loosing attackpower (yes I mean you should sacrifice AC’s when it comes to a naval clash everything is about sinking US BB’s while keeping yours).
If he only uses TRN for taking you island, use ftr to sink the trn, 1TRN to retake the island with the help of a bomber from mainland.
A lot of people are obsessed with “taking IPC’s” but trading a 3 IPC island 3 moves away from your factory while the enemy has 1 move…that is not a good thing to do, because japan can easily get more land troops. US cannot.
Japan only needs 1 transport to retake islands, US need loads of transports to threaten japan.
And after 1 switch you have 1 INF (hopefully 2) on the island and suddenly US must dedicate more than “just 1 TRN” to take the island.

The biggest problem comes to…when should you attack the US fleet?
that depends way to much on how the US fleet looks like, I prefer boxing Japan and if I feel too threatened I go 1 round of only making 1DD + 2 Sub

So to sum up:
Kill off the brits so you only have to worry about 1 fleet.
Gather up you BB’s with extra TRN for superb defence.
Reinforce fleet with 1 ship / round if they are going KJF. (you can still afford 3-4 INF and 1-2 ART units to ship ashore)
If you are being reduced to 1 TRN, make that ship a TRN, if not build a sub, US really hates when he only has his trn+BB to choose what will die. If you feel rich make a DD

Japan will probably not grow, but that means that Germany can take Africa and more important put pressure on Rus. Important here is that I usually make a TRN buy for Baltic and then a DD on G2 to secure Baltic and simply hammer any brittish fleet trying to take Norway/WE, utilize your luftwaffe and you are secure.
(with 2 TRN in Baltic and 1 in Meditteranian sea you can send 6 INF/ART to the front each turn making a 4 INF 2 ART 4 ARM i very solid build for smashing Russia fast).
(When US goes pacific you simply sacrifice 1-2 planes to take out the american fleet if he tries going for africa).

I don’t know how your US are doing the KJF, I’m really interested in the US1-2 Buy.
A smart american buys a strike force US1-2 and skip transports to simply eliminate the Jap fleet and THEN start invading with TRN.
However most players buy Transports + INF to have with them in the 1st attack…which means the US fleet ain’t as strong as it could be. How does it look for you?

In response to the KJF Bluff…

NEVER change strats during a game.  If you are going KJF, STAY KJF.  Otherwise, just go KGF, and STICK WITH IT.

Trying to bluff in the Pacific as the US leaves the Axis with economic dominance, and with USA and UK in NO position to assist a dying Russia.

It seems that you aren´t doing so well back in Europe.
In a KJF game Germany normally can take Egypt on G1 and then whole Africa and Tr.J. and Persia in the next 2 rounds without the use of big armies.
Meanwhile you can also threaten Caucasus and later on Moscow and don´t forget about London, because Uk sometimes forgets itself,
In many games you can also easily outbuild the UK navy if Uk isn´t putting much into Eu. waters and threaten London, Brazil or force the US to protect Eastern US with more soldiers, pulling pressure of Japan.

if you can engage the japanese capital ships in battles that force japan to lose some, even if the usa loses more then you can push japan out of the water, they simply cannot replace the BB’s they start with and still push into asia as fast as they need to for the axis to have a chance.  then the usa player continues mounting pressure in the pacific or ferries over to sfe from alaska.  i think if you can clear the japanese navy then they will lose their asian push because usa can then funnel troops over to east asia and disrupt their supply lines, even possibly grabbing some tasty coastal territories.  it is just SO difficult against a savy japanese player.

1. I have tried it.
2. I usually try to have 6-8 Russian infantry defend Sinkiang. You need about that much and sometimes the Russian fighters to deter a full push from Japan if his goal is to knock it out.
3. I’ve done that a few times. It scares the crap out of newer players. However you have to understand that you’re letting the Kwangtung transport and the Solomon Islands sub to live.
4. My friends have done both. Personally I think it’s a mistake to gun the British fleet down in the first turn in that scenario. Letting Pearl Harbor survive is a big mistake as it allows the US to accumulate a significant naval force 1-2 turns faster than usual.
5. Well, what do you mean by work? In the short term doing all of those things (both ICs, combining British fleet, sending us fighters and russian infantry) will indubitably control Japanese expansion. But past that it’s all up to what the US does. The ICs alone won’t stop Japan for long; if you look at the math Japan can overwhelm India on turn 3 even after doing Pearl Harbor. Japan simply has too many fighters to stop early on if he is focused on his targets. If the US continues to gun after Japan then you will stop Japan from being strong permanently, but then Africa will fall to Germany quickly. You always also have to keep a very careful eye on the UK because a tricky Germany player will pop out 6 transports in one turn and try to overwhelm the UK since he’s been building troops in India and is down all those IPCs in Africa.
6. A tough question no doubt. Like I said, I think it’s asking for trouble if you let Germany take over Africa, which means it’s a good idea to have the US liberate it early on. However, if the US doesn’t follow up on those ICs, then Japan will overwhelm them if he’s good.

I’m not really an expert on this as I haven’t tested it extensively in a while (I tried KJF a few months ago but I didn’t know a few tactics I know now). I would say though that if the Japan player is excellent, then nothing short of all 3 powers going after him will hinder him permanently. I have personally broken free of the sinkiang/indian IC very quickly without US naval support bogging me down. Good Japanese players realize that it’s OK to empty the mainland territories to charge straight into China; although it lets Russia/UK take a territory, this lets you completely and utterly bone the Sinkiang IC turn two, and you can always easily regain the coastal territories using your fighters and battleship bombardments. Your strategy is very good against perhaps low-mid level Japanese players though, looking at that combined British fleet and all those ICs on the mainland it bound to panic him.

I have some additional tips for KJF:

1. Take a good look at where the Japanese player is placing his first turn transport buys. If he is silly enough to place them in the outer Japan seazone, then blow them out of the water with the Hawaaiin fighter + Washington Bomber or just one of them. Believe it or not, the bomber can reach that outer seazone and land in Buryatia; fly up to eastern canada, then to western canada, then to that seazone bordering the north of western canda, then I think from there it’s 2 spaces to that seazone then 1 space into Buryatia, making for 6 spaces. It’s an almost instant game win if you destroy the 3 transports he builds there, and is very clever the first time you see it, although probably past then it will never work. Also if China somehow survived then the fighter there is in a great position to strike at either seazones that the transports deploy in. It takes an observant and clever Japanese player to protect his transports carefully.

2. Somtimes you can panic the Japanese player by consolidating 6 infantry into Buryatia as well as sending 2 tanks in Moscow to the east 2 spaces. Against good Japanese players this probably won’t affect their strategy but against people who haven’t seen it, they will usually panic and not attack China first turn because they’ll look at Manchuria and panic.

3. You can consolidate the British fleet into sz30 as well as sz38. Sz30 is much more out of the way of the Japanese navy than sz38, though if your intent is lure them into attacking your fleet with a lot of units then this isn’t the way to go. Putting them in sz30 though really forces the Japanese to keep an eye on it since it’s in a position to invade some islands. Load full infantry into both transports when you converge them into sz30 will make the Japanese player sweat a bit. He’ll have to keep his bship/car in west indies or you’ll invade it, and he’s not in a good position to attack your fleet with just that because he’ll probably take at least 2 hits and lose a fighter or so. He may be tempted to strafe you with all those infantry aboard but thats’ pretty much what you want because your navy will make him pay for the strafe (1 car + 1 or 2 fighters if the anglo egypt one survived, 1 sub, 1 destroyer, 2 trans).

Also Britain can send their bomber to sinkiang on turn one. This puts an additional monkey wrench in Japanese logistics if they’re used to buying all transports turn one. Now they have to protect their transports wherever they mobilize them, which means buying a destroyer or something which they normally wouldn’t do.

Another alternate monkey wrench move is instead of consolidating the fleets, do this: send the destroyer, carrier, and transport to attack the Kwangtung transport. Send the fighter and sub to attack the solomon island sub. The fighter will land on the US carrier =) Usually you’ll end up destroying the enemy sub before it can submerge. Now you have presented the Japanese with some thorns. Pearl Harbor is a little harder to attack now since he lost a sub and now that there’s an additional fighter defending there. Also now there’s this quirky fleet sitting next to Kwangtung which is poised to strike as new naval units being built if it isn’t instantly targeted by the Indies fleet. Sometimes you can incur a fighter casualty with this fleet when Japan strikes it (2 hits total).

4. When your US fleet is gunning after Japan, I personally believe that the best tactical maneuver is not to charge straight west into the Japan seazone (2 turns), but to drop down to Solomon islands. This puts Japan in a bind, because from here you can attack his money islands (boreno, philiippines, west indies) as well as the Japan mainland. He is going to be forced to attack you there, giving you the defending advantage, or risk you grabbing his money islands because he can’t defend nearly all of them and then deploying an IC there, which totally throws things out of whack for him.

There are a number of Japanese strategies to help counter these tricky KJF strategies, but I don’t want to go into them right now because I’m lazy. Besides a few tricks the basic goal is to wait for Germany to overcome Africa, take some Russian territories, and then either crush Moscow then go to India or surprise attack Britain.