@max334 Hopefully I can play well enough with the Red Army to offset the loss of London.
Out of the Box 2nd Edition League Discussion
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This thread is for league player discussion of Out of the Box 2nd Edition ONLY
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G gamerman01 pinned this topic
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@simon33 said in League General Discussion Thread:
Since its the time in the year for reviewing rules, can I suggest we change this one to allow land units on empty territories, really only an issue for New Guinea.
The nation placing a unit in a territory or sea zone must have started with a unit in said territory or sea zone prior to placing the bid.
Reason for change is that pretty much every player accepts the bid and so does Triple-A. So why not make the standard rules what is normally practiced?Let me jump on this post. Thank you, Simon. Is there a reason we don’t take January to adjust the rules for OOB slightly? People say it’s stale or boring, so why not change it? I’ve said this before (International Federation of Axis & Allies Players) but since we are the aforementioned, may I suggest the rule of 3. Per year only one rulebook change, one adjustment to bid, one adjustment to a unit. You don’t have to make all three changes, but you can.
I would personally suggest the top 3-5 players in the OOB bracket make the adjustments. I would also ask that they come up with an option bid number and placement. That can serve as an optional guardrail or a base for other players. Lastly, I would suggest they have one of the tripleA guys in the discussion.
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@crockett36 i would like the minimum number of rule changes to keep OOB still OOB. A bid was obviously necessary, and then we agreed it was dull to allow 10 inf in Paris as the starting units so required the 1 unit per territory rule.
I do think we now have enough data from the past years to estimate the “fair” bid based on Elo-adjusted win percentages. Maybe I will dig into that data and see if I can come up with a model.
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I would just push back and say that’s a minor adjustments can be minor adjusted back. This ad flavor and we might get rid of some silliness in the game. There are five or six rules that are just plain insulting to people’s intelligence as a for instance, the fact that Germany can go into an Italian East Poland and still receive the Russian bonus.
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@crockett36 yeah, the bit could be lowered if we got rid of a few of these rules. For intensive left lease were really a thing
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@crockett36 sorry dictation The bid would not have to be so high if you got rid of a few of these rules. Or adjusted the rules for instance, if the bonuses for Germany were three instead of five, that would make a huge difference.
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@crockett36 we have a “balance mod” already. People are free to have their own house rules in oob league matches, but you won’t find many oppenents who find agreeable changes. We have had a couple decades of proposals on this forum and nothing gains traction.
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@Arthur-Bomber-Harris is speaking succinctly, and speaking for most of us,
We want to preserve the base ruleset as much as we can and if a player wants some modification and the other doesn’t, then the default is the actual out of the box rules. This has been agreed upon as a higher priority, so that OOB players interested in league can jump right in, and current or departing league players can seamlessly play OOB outside the league.
Bidding definitely creates the opportunity for more chaos and cheese, and of course any bid is a modification of the game start, but it is not changing any mechanics or rules of play after game start. If a player doesn’t like 40+ bids, he should propose alternatives to his opponent, who will often be agreeable.
This is where you can say, hey, let’s reduce German NO’s from 5 to 3 and then the bidding can be lower. In my latest game, after bidding started I realized I wanted to know where his bid was going to be, so I revealed mine and asked if he’d reveal his. Then I knew I wasn’t going to face a starting placement I wouldn’t like. So you can get creative with your opponent, but when you don’t agree, out of box rules are your fallback.
The default league rules are not effectively a restriction or a hindrance, they are a safeguard that protects players from being expected to play something other than out of the box, when they just want to play out of the box.
Pretty much total freedom is given to two players who want to doctor up any crazy modifications of out of the box they want, and the game will still be counted in out of the box league play, which is very lenient. Conceivably even a small band of players could be playing in OOB league play with all their unconventional rules, but as soon as they want to play someone else in the league who doesn’t want those rules, the league rules protect the “normal” player.
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Agree, this is the jumping in point for new online players, so adhering to the standard rules as much as reasonably possible to make a “fair” game will make the transition easier. Plus the tactics will translate directly to improve over the board play. I think the current bid mechanics do that well.
BM and PTV are the variants to explore rule changes, and more dramatic map/rule changes respectively.
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