TGC(CP) v DoManMacgee(Entente) [game 6]

@the_good_captain Game History

Round: 4

    Puchase Units - French
        Condition TankProductionFrench: French has their production frontier changed to: lateWarProduction
        French buy 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 4 infantry and 2 tanks; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - French
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Adding units owned by French to Ruhr: 1 fighter
        EDIT: Removing units owned by French from Lorraine: 1 fighter
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 fighter moved from Paris to Belgium
        EDIT: French undo move 3.
        3 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from Lorraine to Alsace
              French take Alsace from Germans
        1 infantry moved from Lorraine to Alsace
              French take Alsace from Germans
        3 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from Lorraine to Belgium
        3 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from Picardy to Belgium
        2 artilleries and 5 infantry moved from Paris to Picardy
        1 transport moved from SZ 17 to SZ 16
        1 infantry moved from Algeria to SZ 16
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from SZ 16 to SZ 17
        1 infantry moved from SZ 17 to Egypt
        1 infantry moved from Gold Coast to SZ 23

    Combat - French
        French creates battle in territory Ruhr
        Battle in Belgium
            French attack with 6 artilleries, 1 fighter and 4 infantry
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                French roll dice for 6 artilleries, 1 fighter and 4 infantry in Belgium, round 2 : 4/11 hits, 6.33 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Belgium, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Belgium
            French win, taking Belgium from Germans with 6 artilleries, 1 fighter and 4 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
        Battle in Ruhr
            French attack with 8 artilleries, 2 fighters and 12 infantry
            Germans defend with 11 artilleries and 4 infantry
                French roll dice for 8 artilleries, 2 fighters and 12 infantry in Ruhr, round 2 : 12/22 hits, 11.33 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 11 artilleries and 4 infantry in Ruhr, round 2 : 8/15 hits, 7.50 expected hits
                9 artilleries owned by the Germans, 3 infantry owned by the Germans and 8 infantry owned by the French lost in Ruhr
            Germans and French reach a stalemate
            . Battle score for attacker is 21
            Casualties for French: 8 infantry
            Casualties for Germans: 9 artilleries and 3 infantry

    Combat Move - French

    Place Units - French
        1 artillery, 1 fighter, 4 infantry and 2 tanks placed in Paris

    Turn Complete - French
        French collect 31 PUs; end with 31 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

French regular : -1.67
Germans regular : 0.00

Game History

Round: 4

    Puchase Units - British
        Condition TankProductionBritish: British has their production frontier changed to: lateWarProduction
        British buy 3 artilleries, 1 fighter and 7 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - British
                Germans roll mine dice in SZ 10 : 1/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
            1 transport lost in SZ 10
                Germans roll mine dice in SZ 10 : 1/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
            1 transport lost in SZ 10
                Germans roll mine dice in SZ 10 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Neutral_Allied to Kiel: 2 artilleries and 3 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by British from Kiel: 2 artilleries and 1 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 artillery and 4 infantry moved from Tatarstan to Sevastopol
        4 artilleries, 1 fighter and 9 infantry moved from India to Persia
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Togoland to Nigeria
              British take Nigeria from Germans
        2 artilleries and 1 infantry moved from Rhodesia to Belgian Congo
        1 infantry moved from Kamerun to Belgian Congo
        2 artilleries, 4 infantry and 3 transports moved from SZ 2 to SZ 8
        2 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from SZ 8 to Picardy
        3 transports moved from SZ 10 to SZ 9
        6 infantry moved from London to SZ 9
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from SZ 9 to SZ 10
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from SZ 9 to SZ 10
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from SZ 9 to SZ 10

    Combat - British
        British creates battle in territory SZ 10
        Battle in Sevastopol
            British attack with 1 artillery and 4 infantry
            Ottomans defend with 1 infantry and 1 port
                British roll dice for 1 artillery and 4 infantry in Sevastopol, round 2 : 1/5 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                Ottomans roll dice for 1 infantry in Sevastopol, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Ottomans lost in Sevastopol
            British win, taking Sevastopol from Ottomans with 1 artillery and 4 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Ottomans: 1 infantry
        Battle in Persia
            British attack with 4 artilleries, 1 fighter and 9 infantry
            Neutral_True defend with 1 artillery and 3 infantry
                British roll dice for 4 artilleries, 1 fighter and 9 infantry in Persia, round 2 : 3/14 hits, 6.67 expected hits
                Neutral_True roll dice for 1 artillery and 3 infantry in Persia, round 2 : 2/4 hits, 2.00 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Neutral_True, 2 infantry owned by the British and 1 artillery owned by the Neutral_True lost in Persia
            Neutral_True and British reach a stalemate
            . Battle score for attacker is 4
            Casualties for British: 2 infantry
            Casualties for Neutral_True: 1 artillery and 2 infantry

    Combat Move - British
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by British from SZ 10: 2 infantry and 1 transport
        EDIT: Adding units owned by British to SZ 10: 1 transport
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

    Place Units - British
        2 artilleries and 1 fighter placed in London
        1 artillery and 7 infantry placed in India

    Turn Complete - British
        British collect 41 PUs; end with 41 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Ottomans regular : -0.50
Neutral_True regular : 0.00
British regular : -4.67
Germans mine : 1.50

1914-game-7-b4.tsvg

I lost 2/3 UK Transports in Kiel so I had to do some wonky editing to get the remaining guys off the TT in a way that wouldn’t press combat in Kiel. This sure did turn into another one of those “Yakety Sax” type games.

@the_good_captain Game History

Round: 4

    Puchase Units - Italians
        Condition TankProductionItalians: Italians has their production frontier changed to: lateWarProduction
        Italians buy 5 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Italians
        1 artillery moved from Rome to SZ 17
        1 infantry moved from Rome to SZ 17
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from SZ 17 to Piedmont
        1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Tuscany to Piedmont
        1 artillery and 4 infantry moved from Rome to Tuscany

    Combat Move - Italians

    Place Units - Italians
        5 infantry placed in Rome

    Turn Complete - Italians
        Italians collect 15 PUs; end with 15 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Game History

Round: 4

    Puchase Units - Americans
        Condition TankProductionAmericans: Americans has their production frontier changed to: lateWarProduction
        Americans buy 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Americans
        Trigger AmericansRemoveRestrictions: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared for rulesAttachment attached to Americans
        Trigger AmericansJoinWar: Changing Relationship for AustroHungarians and Americans from Neutral to War
        Trigger AmericansJoinWar: Changing Relationship for Russians and Americans from Neutral to Allied
        Trigger AmericansJoinWar: Changing Relationship for Germans and Americans from Neutral to War
        Trigger AmericansJoinWar: Changing Relationship for French and Americans from Neutral to Allied
        Trigger AmericansJoinWar: Changing Relationship for British and Americans from Neutral to Allied
        Trigger AmericansJoinWar: Changing Relationship for Ottomans and Americans from Neutral to War
        Trigger AmericansJoinWar: Changing Relationship for Italians and Americans from Neutral to Allied
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to Coastal Barrage 1: 5 artilleries, 1 fighter and 6 infantry
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 transport moved from SZ 1 to SZ 2
        5 artilleries, 1 fighter and 6 infantry moved from United States of America to SZ 1
        5 artilleries, 1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 fighter, 6 infantry and 6 transports moved from SZ 1 to SZ 14
        5 artilleries, 1 fighter and 6 infantry moved from SZ 14 to Spain

    Combat - Americans
        Americans creates battle in territory Coastal Barrage 1
        Battle in Coastal Barrage 1
            Americans attack with 5 artilleries, 1 fighter and 6 infantry
            Contested defend with 1 coastal_artillery
                Americans roll dice for 5 artilleries, 1 fighter and 6 infantry in Coastal Barrage 1, round 2 : 5/12 hits, 6.50 expected hits
                Contested roll dice for 1 coastal_artillery in Coastal Barrage 1, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.50 expected hits
                1 coastal_artillery owned by the Contested and 1 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Coastal Barrage 1
            Americans win, taking Coastal Barrage 1 from Contested with 5 artilleries, 1 fighter and 5 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -3
            Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Contested: 1 coastal_artillery
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from Coastal Barrage 1: 5 artilleries, 1 fighter and 5 infantry
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Coastal Barrage 1 from Americans to Contested
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Contested to Coastal Barrage 1: 1 coastal_artillery
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from Spain: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Battle in Spain
            Americans attack with 5 artilleries, 1 fighter and 5 infantry
            Neutral_True defend with 1 artillery and 7 infantry
                Americans roll dice for 1 battleship in Spain, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Americans roll dice for 5 artilleries, 1 fighter and 5 infantry in Spain, round 2 : 10/11 hits, 6.17 expected hits
                Neutral_True roll dice for 1 artillery and 7 infantry in Spain, round 2 : 2/8 hits, 4.00 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Americans, 7 infantry owned by the Neutral_True and 1 artillery owned by the Neutral_True lost in Spain
            Americans win, taking Spain from Neutral_True with 5 artilleries, 1 fighter and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 19
            Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry
            Casualties for Neutral_True: 1 artillery and 7 infantry

    Combat Move - Americans

    Place Units - Americans
        2 transports placed in SZ 1
        1 artillery and 1 infantry placed in United States of America

    Turn Complete - Americans
        Americans collect 24 PUs; end with 25 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Americans regular : 2.67
Contested regular : 0.50
Neutral_True regular : -2.00

I wasn’t actually planning on one-rounding the Spanish (Was counting on the French in Portugal to finish the job on F5) but I’ll take it I guess.

1914-game-7-usa4.tsvg

@the_good_captain 1 INF/3 FTR survive.

@the_good_captain said in TGC(CP) v DoManMacgee(Entente) [game 6]:

@domanmacgee
it was 12 hits total so I went with one inf and two fighters.

Yeah that’s fine. I miscounted the number of R INF that were alive somehow.

@the_good_captain Game History

Round: 5

    Combat Move - Russians
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Adding units owned by Neutral_Allied to Ukraine: 1 infantry
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Russians from Ukraine: 1 infantry
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        2 fighters moved from Ukraine to Tatarstan
        4 artilleries, 2 fighters and 11 infantry moved from Tatarstan to Kazakhstan

    Combat - Russians
        Russians creates battle in territory SZ 10

    Combat Move - Russians

    Turn Complete - Russians

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

1914-game-7-r5.tsvg

Not much of a move but I guess it stops AH/G from having back to back turns for a bit.

@the_good_captain I made the France turn but got crap die rolls so I’m just gonna give it up now lol. Rhur’s gonna die next turn and after that things are just going to turn into a 6+ turn slog until eventually Rome goes down.

@the_good_captain Yeah I had lots of stuff go completely sideways on me this time.

I poorly distributed my initial guys in Poland and botched the dice on dealing with the German fleet (in hindsight, I probably should have tried attacking with the R Battleship to try getting a lucky hit in), which more-or-less locked me out of getting any British guys to Karelia in time to impact things at all. That in turn snowballed the Russian front out of control to the point where Russia died way too early, which in turn negated the benefits I’d carved out for myself on the Western Front (you were able to literally send 100% of the German build west on G5, which was basically the last nail in the coffin).

If I were to try that “hold Poland R1” move again, I’d probably have to be content with leaving Ukraine empty, which creates its own problems as I’m sure you can imagine.

@the_good_captain Last note on this: Charging Kiel is an absolutely awful idea due to the extremely devastating impact mines can have on the game if a few go off in an untimely fashion.

@the_good_captain said in TGC(CP) v DoManMacgee(Entente) [game 6]:

I’m starting to move towards the opinion that fighting or otherwise being aggressive at all with Russia is perhaps not most optimal. I’m up to twenty games completed now and whenever Russia is belligerent, it seems to go down sooner rather than later - even when the dice are cutting down the middle or even in Russian favor.

Actually, something you said in one of our first games comes to mind. In the game where I botched my understanding of the Revolution, you said something about the “nature of the game mechanics with a large army on defense” and “how much time it takes to grind it down” or words to that effect.

It’s not a complete thought - just a pattern I feel like I’m seeing start to materialize. I’m also close to the opinion that in a KRF, the Russians are going down - they just need to make it to round 8ish to keep the game going. I’m fully aware that you are working on the UK helping Russia strat though and feel there might be something too that. I can’t bring myself to try it just yet as I feel like it waters down UK influence in Turkey and the West - where they are badly needed (in my current opinion).

Alright, I’ll admit that you’ve caught me on these points. I more or less agree with your assessment is that the optimal Russian gameplan (as far as I can tell) is to just hold on for as long as possible while UK tries to kill Ottomans as a form of compensation for Russia dying (I’ve said this much before to both you and in way older threads/youtube videos I’ve commented on). I’ve largely been trying to use these games as means of experimenting with out-of-the-box moves for the Entente in the face of the well-established Central Powers strategy of dog-pilling Russia ASAP (such as the UK convoy into Karelia). Admittedly, though, these alternative strategies haven’t been working out the greatest for me (in most of the games where I’ve won so far, I’ve either gotten you on the technicalities of game mechanics or taken advantage of you getting diced in a critical early battle). With that being said, I’m leaning towards the “traditional” Entente plan of:

• Russia turtles
• France tries rushing to Alsace/Kiel (if possible)
• UK rushes Ottomans
• Italians hold on as much as possible
• USA funnels guys to either Italy or France as needed.

With the overall game flow being:

• Central Powers kill Russia.
• UK (possibly) kills Ottomans.
• Final showdown happens in either Constantinople or Rome/Paris. If Entente can’t simultaneously get Constantinople and hold the line wherever the CP strikes, they lose, but if they get both they win. I used to be of the opinion that the game was a foregone conclusion in-favor of the Entente, but after getting curb-stomped by you (and watching games where you curb-stomp a good chunk of the forum), I’m starting to think the game might be more even than I originally though. However, I think Entente still might have an edge, but you might just be outright better at fundamentals than I am.

@the_good_captain said in TGC(CP) v DoManMacgee(Entente) [game 6]:

I have played seven games as the Entente and won them all. But its a bit worse than that. I just cleared a game where the Entente lost something like 90% of their starting fleet in the first two turns - a complete and utter disaster and it was STILL a fairly solid Entente win - finished by turn 6-7.

It feels completely intuitive to play the Entente. To play the CP is to play a brittle set of countries that might be able to take one “dicing” in a big battle and that is if you play them immaculately.

That’s an interesting point. I’ve had a similar experience in these games where it takes several screw-ups from the Entente dice-wise before the game is lost but a single bad die roll in Ukraine or on the Ottoman Vs. UK front basically ends the game immediately. That is probably a point in favor of the Entente being favored overall.

I guess my point was more that my initial assessment of the Central Powers’ chances were even more bleak than what you’re outlining here. If you’ve ever looked into them, you’ll find that the LHTR for this game version specifically are a for more drastic departure from the OOB rules then you’ll find in basically any other version of A&A, to the point where it might as well be a completely different game. This is largely due to the view held by the folks on here at that time (~2014) that the Central Powers literally could not win the game under basically any circumstances, barring miraculous dice. Compared to that, saying “The Entente has a major advantage” is still a major improvement for the CP.

To expand, half the time you get a turn from me, I not only took several practice turns, but I have played through the next world turn to project your side. I do this to uncover “the best” move my opponent can make so I am not caught off guard by anything. Of course I do less and less of this as I stack more games but - this game favors the Entente in my opinion. At the very least I will argue that the Entente is more intuitive and more forgiving of poor dice (of course not in certain quantities as we have seen).

*To be clear, this is not my preferred method of play (running my turns several times and then running my opponents turns to make sure its “right”). I’m just doing this to figure out what is going on and what moves are “best”. If axis and allies had a “gym”, then TripleA is where you go to “work out”. I’d like to stack over the board games without all these tools and work on translating these findings into a “real-world” game. I might do so at the 2023 tournaments in LA… anyway

Yikes.

Okay I take the part about being blatantly inferior regarding tactics/fundamentals/etc. back (although that still may be the case!). I was thinking ahead a bit during our games but aside from using Battle Calc I was more-or-less treating these as an Over-the-Board type of deal. I didn’t think to go as far as simulating turns in advance. That’s some rock-solid dedication (especially considering you were juggling multiple games against multiple opponents).

At least now I feel a lot less bad about getting pummeled. If anything, I’m surprised I was able to keep up as well as I did.

@the_good_captain Yeah 1914 is really REALLY weird with the rules. As you saw during our games I stepped on a lot of rakes myself.

Anyway, if you wanna start up another round I’m game (let’s swap off again though). I won’t be ready to go until tomorrow or Tuesday though.