What if Abyssinia Survives?
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The situation is it is July 1939 and France just surrendered to Germany. Italy hasn’t taken Abyssinia, but Abyssinia hasn’t captured Eritrea.
Palious13 wrote, “Abyssinia can’t become French unless it wins the war. page 58 of rulebook If Abyssinia wins, they align to France when France is at war with a major power. If France is subsequently captured, Abyssinia becomes Free French. Abyssinia has not won therefore do not align or become Free French. They have to conquer Eritrea to win.”
Fighting Irish responded, “I was thinking that France surrendered. Abyssinia became Free French regardless if the war with Italy is still going on. I took the line France is subsequently captured, Abyssinia becomes Free French. I took it as the war was now over with the Italian as well.”
I wrote, “This is a tricky situation. Abyssinia is Controlled by France at the start of the game (Page 58, 13.2 Italian Campaign in Abyssinia). Palious13 is correct that Under Resolution, “If Abyssinians win, Abyssinia Aligns to France as soon as France is at war with a Major Power. If France is subsequently defeated Abyssinia becomes Free France.” But what if Abyssinia has not yet won the war? Then Abyssinia is NOT Aligned and is only Controlled. This might make Palious13 feel that Abyssinia isn’t going to necessarily go Free French. However, Fighting Irish is correct that on the Vichy France Quick Reference Sheet it states, “All French Controlled/Aligned Minor Powers (e.g. Abyssinia) become Aligned to Free French.” So that is definitive. Abyssinia does NOT have to win the war to guarantee it will become Free French. All Abyssinia need do is fight to a tie. You have played it correctly, Fighting Irish. 8 )”
Adalwolf wrote, “So two points here. 1) Italy needs to try to defeat Abyssinia before France falls or Abyssinia becomes controlled by the Free French. 2) Is Italy now at war automatically with the Free French? Or technically the war is over with Abyssinia and now if Italy wants Abyssinia it must DOW on the Free French? What is the repercussions of Italy doing so?”
I responded, "Excellent questions, Adalwolf! Here’s the way I think about it (and I’m not an official source, just an enthusiast): Once France surrenders, Abyssinia is “absorbed” by the Free French. They basically have loyalty to the French for supporting them and they see that politically, by joining the Free French, they will put the Italians in a strange position. Remember that when a minor country goes from controlled to aligned, you replace the units, so the Abyssinian units are removed from the board and replaced with Free French. If the Italians want to try and take Abyssinia, they will have to declare war on the Free French. Abyssinia has basically ceased to exist.
Italy is not yet at war with the Free French. The Free French National Reference Sheet states that Free France is at war with all nations France was at war with. Vichy France wanted to stay out of the war, but Free France wanted to continue fighting the Germans. This means Free France is part of the Allies’ alliance. If Italy declares war on Free France, they are then going to war with Great Britain."
Adalwolf suggested others might benefit from this discussion…
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@hbg-gw-enthusiast So, in reading this, to me it sounds like Abyssinia would stay controlled by Free France until Free France and Abyssinia are at war with the same major power.
If France/Free France weren’t/aren’t at war with Italy, but Italy is at war with Abyssinia, I don’t see how Abyssinia can just automatically become Free French. That would either force an end to the Abyssinian conflict, or force Italy to have to go to war with Free France. Neither of those seem fair or correct as it pertains to Italy.
That would make it impossible for Italy to stay neutral in any game. They start the game at war with Abyssinia already. So any time France surrenders and Free France is creating, that means Abyssinia automatically aligns with Free France, and thus Free France is automatically at war with Italy.
That just doesn’t sound right to me, but I could certainly be wrong.
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@chris_henry said in What if Abyssinia Survives?:
Abyssinia has accouple alignment conditions.
- First: in 13.2 Italian Campaign in Abyssinia it states that if Aby. wins, its aligns to France as soon as its at war with a Major Power. It also states that if Italy and France are at war Aby Aligns.
- Second: In 14.4.2 Vichy France Creation it states that all French Aligned Minor powers, align to Free France.
- Third: On the Vichy France Reference Sheet it states "All French Controlled/Aligned Minor Powers (e.g.* Abyssinia) become Aligned to Free French.
The Second and Third sources are a bit contradictory. This is probably the source of everyone’s confusion and probably should be FAQ’d. Im going to add it to the FAQ thread.
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@insanehoshi Oh wow, thanks for that. I think that was my source of confusion for sure!
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@chris_henry yea I believe my group would play it that Abyssinia transfers control from France to Free France but does not align until the war is over.
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@hbg-gw-enthusiast
@Chris_Henry
@insaneHoshi
@brettersErrata:
“Vichy Reference Sheet:
French Controlled & Aligned Minor Powers:
Remove “Controlled” from this sentence:
“All French Controlled/Aligned Minor Powers””If the war is not over, Abyssinia does not align.
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@trig exactly
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It’s now clear that Abyssinia must win (capture Eritrea) to guarantee it becomes Free French when France surrenders. If I understand correctly, if Abyssinia is still battling Italy when France surrenders, the war goes on. I would assume control of Abyssinia transfers to Free France when France surrenders.
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@hbg-gw-enthusiast Not quite.
Italy and Free France would have to go to war with each other in order for Abyssinia to become aligned with Free France instead of just controlled. If Italy and Free France don’t go to war, Abyssinia would continue to only be controlled, not aligned.
Likewise, Abyssinia does not need to win the war to become Free French. They simply need Free France and Abyssinia to be at war with the same major power.
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@chris_henry said in What if Abyssinia Survives?:
@hbg-gw-enthusiast Not quite.
Italy and Free France would have to go to war with each other in order for Abyssinia to become aligned with Free France instead of just controlled. If Italy and Free France don’t go to war, Abyssinia would continue to only be controlled, not aligned.
Likewise, Abyssinia does not need to win the war to become Free French. They simply need Free France and Abyssinia to be at war with the same major power.
Good point about guaranteeing it becomes Free French. I neglected to add “when France surrenders.” I’ll edit my post above!
Just for clarity, by “control of Abyssinia transfers to Free France,” I mean that Free France controls Abyssinia. Control does not equal alignment. Abyssinia remains a controlled minor power, but it is now controlled by Free France (whereas before it was controlled by France). Make sense?
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@hbg-gw-enthusiast Yup! I apparently decided to not take the word “control” in that sentence in the GW36 game sense of the word that time for whatever reason :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:
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