World War at Sea an axis and allies Home Brew Version 2.1

My friends and I have been play testing a new way to play with those axis and allies pieces specifically the navel units and planes. Is there any interest in this. If enough peeps are interested i will post the rules. Think of it as a cross between Warhammer 40k and axis and allies :-D

Just redid some of the shooting rules, this will allow for a smoother flowing game
played another game and refined the game a little more added som cool stuff for officers and turrets, more dice. :-D

Well I got two lists completed, Germany and America.  I wish Germany had a second type of carrier though, Graf Zepplin is kinda small. :x I just need a good source of info on WWII Navel Aircraft from the 4 major players in the sea

I also just want to say that when the A&A Navel minis come out this Game will be cool as hell. I will probably Base most Navy Lists off of what ships will be available and with them being 1/1800 scale this should prove to be a fun way to use those ships. Did I mention that The Planes are 1/900 scale. This is going to be fun Come on March 07

Alright it is still a work in progress.Also you will have to have a basic knowledge of how Warhammer plays Games last generally around 6 turns before someone is  usually subdued.
This is not historical yet but if there is enough interest this makes a good engine to build off of

You will need a tape measure that will go at least 5 feet
lots of dice–d6’s
Playing area is generaly A 8’ x 4’ piece of ply wood. 6’ x 4’ will work also
I bought blue cloth for water and used hiil tops from 40 k for my  islands

2-4 players, points based before game set up agree with your apponent how many points you wil play. I find 1000-1500pts more then adaquete.

Roll 1 d6 for each side highest picks if he wants to deploy first or second
deployment- we play on a 8’x4’ sheet of ply wood board,  so you may need to adjust measure ments a little. Short board edge, find the center and measure 2 feet towards the center of the board, roll 2d 6 and scatter die, where this lands is the center of your deployment zone. you may deploy any where around this point as long as you are no further then 12" from the center point and 36" away from an enemy ship.
Each side places his or her navy in it’s entirity except for subs and gun boats They may choose to deploy these if they want though

Whoever deployed first now may deploy any subs or gun boats anywhere  they wish as long as they are at least 30" away from an enemy target including other subs and gun boats
next the other side deploys subs. same rules apply

Roll a d6 highest picks if they want to attack or defend first.

Phase sequence
1 Movement-all ships and planes may move
2 Aircraft launch and recover phase- Airplanes may move their entire speed after launch
3 Defending Cap fighters Attack- defending cap fighters may attack.
4 Shooting- 
5 Remove casualties and place dammage counters
6 End turn

Any Stat that has a number ex (4+) this is the number needed to be rolled or higher on a d6

The Navy List
All ships have 6 basic stats
—speed-----Armour---------Antiair Def.—Wounds-------Armour save----------Gunnery skill--------------Type----------------------pts cost
    12"              8                  5+                    2                      5+                      5+                  Destroyer                      35

15"              5                  5+                    1                      6+                      5+                  Gun Boats                    15

12"            8                  0                      2                      5+                      5+                  Submarines                  45
    8" submerged

10"              10                5+                    3                      5+                      5+                  Cruisers                        65

8"                12                5+                    4                      4+                      5+                  Heavy Cruisers                125

8"                14                4+                    5                      4+                      5+                  Battleships                    250

10"              10                4+                    3                      4+                      5+                  Aircraft Carriers              125

This is just a quick reference of off the shelf ships-before upgrades. the complete ship entries at end of post
I have 5 different Axis and allies games so I have a variety of colors and sizes of plastik ships use what suits you.

All ships come with a standard callibre weapon but if you so chose you may upgrade to stronger guns  for a additional  points cost

Weapons table
                                        strength                                              Range
Torpedos**                            5                                                      18"                            they hit targets on a roll of 5+
5" AA guns                            2                                                      6"
4" Navel                                3      light                                          12"
5" Navel                                4      light                                          15"
6" Navel                                5      medium                                    20" 
8" Navel                                6      medium                                    24"
11" Navel                              7      heavy  2                                      36"          if four or more 6’s r rolled, -1 to targets save
12" Navel                              8      heavy  2                                    40"          if three or more 6’s are rolled, -1 to targets save
15" Navel                              9      heavy  2                                    48"          if two or more 6’s are rolled, -1 to targets save
16" Navel                              10      heavy  2                                      50"          - 1 to targets save
18" Navel***                        10      heavy 2                                        50"          -1 to targets save, 2d6 armour penetration
** torpedos treat all armour values above 10 as 10 all others treated normally
*** These guns are huge!!!, Each cannon on each turret gets 2d6 to roll for armour penetration, during this roll if two 6’s are rolled the defending unit gets no armour save for that wound. Also if the roll on the 2 d6 plus the strength of the weapon doubles the total armour value of the defending unit, the defending unit is destroyed regaurdless of how many wounds it has left. The total should not exceed 22                 
All Navel Guns,  may not be used to shoot at aircraft
AA guns use the ships AA Def value when determining offensive attacks “5 inch AA guns only” 1 die per gun.

Turrets–All Navel guns are in a “turret” They come in three Catagories, Main, Secondary, and Auxillary
These are spread evenly throughout the ship. So where are these located, easy Main turrets-- 2 in front 1 in back or 2f-2b.(destroyers 1 front 1 back)  Secondary weapons, total number divided by two on each side. so if there were 4 total, there are 2 on each side with a firing arc of 180 degrees front to back Auxillarys follow same rules as secondary

SHOOTING

Line of Sight-- the shooter may not be any further then 36" away from intended target.  This is to show earth curvature. Any thing beyond 36" inches from firer does not exist yet in his eyes. Islands block line of sight for ships

Use your better judgement, if you have to shoot through your own superstructure you can’t take the shot.
All ships have A gunnery Skill. ex. Destroyers have a gunnery skill of 5+ so a 5 or 6 is needed for a sucsseful Attempt to hit. After a hit is scored you must roll to see if you wound the target. roll a d6 add the strength of weapon, if it meets or beats the armour value of the target the target must make a saving throw. If the strength of the weapon is equal to or greater then the armour value of the target, if a one is rolled during the armour penetration roll  it does not score a hit. You get dice equal to the number of turrets x2, that are shooting using  that ships gunnery skill. in other words 2 die per heavy  turret.
Ships may only offensivly fire against 1 hostile surface target, exception AA guns may roll individually against planes. Ships may use all of it’s weapon systems against this target if they are in range.
multiple surface to surface attacks not possible, but a surface to surface attack and 1 surface to air attack can happen simualtaniously

DAMMAGE TABLE
                                        1st wound            2nd                  3rd                4th                    5th
Destroyers                          - 4" of speed      Destroyed

Subs                              Cannot submerge    Destroyed

Cruiser                                -4" speed          - 1 Main turret      Destroyed

Heavy Cruiser                      N/A                    -4"  speed            - 1 Turret    Destroyed

Battleships                          N/A                    -4" speed            - 1 Turret      -2 turrets            Destroyed

Carriers                              -4" speed            4 plane launch        Destroyed
                                                                  and recovery limit***
Gun boats                          destroyed

** All Turrets Lost Are Main Turrets**                                                                                                                                        *** 6 plane limit if a captain is on board                                                     
**** for every lost turret, 1 point of armour is lost also******

T

The Navy and Aircraft list

ships
                                    Speed            Armour                AA def.              Wounds                Save                    Points cost
Destroyers                        12"                  8                        5+                      2                      5+                        35pts
    Armed with 2 main light Navel turrets, depth charges and 2 torpedoe racks with 4 launchers. 1 launcher per side 180 degree arc
                          4 inch Navel @ 0pts
                          5 inch Navel @ 15pts replaces 3 inch guns
    Depth charges- range 6 inches from destroyer. Roll 4 d6 and hits on 6’s. subs save on 4’s, can be used only against submerged subs
    Torpedos-  Two side  facing racks with 8 fish. Additional fish cost 5pts for 4
    Sonar-  Detects submerged subs 24 inches away
    Subs shooting torpedos at destroyers get a - 1 to their gunnery skill due to destroyers fast speed                                     
Submarines                      12" surfaced      8                        0                      2                      5+                        50pts
                                      8" submerged
    Armed with 4 forward facing and 1 aft facing torpedo tubes. Subs have a unlimited number of torpedos         
    1 5 inch deck gun

Gun boats                        15"                  5                        5+                    1                      5+                        15pts
    Armed with one 5 inch AA gun, 4 torpedo tubes forward facing. 4 fish included
    additional torpedos @ 5 pts for 2
    All attacks against gun boats get a -1 to their gunnery skill, this is to show for their outstanding speed.

Cruisers                            10"                  10                      5+                      3                      5+                          65pts
      Armed with 3 medium turrets and 4 turrets
      4 inch guns @ 0 pts                                        6 inch guns @ 0 pts
      5 inch guns @ 15 pts                                      8 inch guns @ 25 pts
      Armour options–-Heavy  armour increses to 11, speed decresed to 8 inches @ 25 pts
                              Light  armour decreases to 9, speed incresed to 12 inches, may not upgrade main medium guns @ 10 pts
      Sub hunter, sonar added 2 torpedo racks, 1 on each side, 4 launchers per rack, replaces light guns @ 35 pts.* Each rack has a   
      180 degree arc to 1 side of ship. 1 on the right and one on the left* unlimited fish.
      May exchange Light guns for 5" AA guns @ 20pts 4 total
      Torpedo Bulges,( c battlship entry) @ 25pts

Heavy Cruisers                8"                      12                    5+                      4                      4+                          125pts
      Armed with 4 medium Turrets and 4 light Turrets                             
      4 inch guns @ 0 pts                                                                                        11 inch guns @ 50 pts
      5 inch guns @ 15 pts                                  8 inch guns @ 0 pts                        if chosen main turret count is reduced by
      May exchange Light guns for 5" AA guns @ 20pts  4 total                                    one. replaces 8 inch
      Torpedo Bulges-(c-battleship entry)  @ 25pts

Battleships                      8"                      14                    4+                      5                    4+                          250pts
    Armed with 3 Heavy Turrets, 8 medium Turrets  and 8 light turrets  or 4 Heavy main Turrets, 6 med, 6 light, armour value for          ship drops to 13  @ 0 pts
      4 inch @ 0 pts                                          6 inch @ 0 pts                                        11 inch @ -10 pts
      5 inch @ 15 pts                                        8 inch @ 25 pts                                      12 inch @ 0 pts
                                                                                                                                15 inch @ 70 pts 
                                                                                                                                16 inch @ 80pts
      May exchange light guns for  5" AA guns @ 20pts
      16 inch guns may be replaced with 18 inch guns with the same range and strength as a 16" gun but gets 2d6 + strength                  when rolling for armour penetration @ 50pts
      -1 still in effect for targets saving throw.
      Torpedo Bulges, Ships may reroll any failed save attempt 1 time from torpedo attacks only. @ 25 pts

Carriers                        10"                        10                  4+                      3                      4+                          125pts
      Armed with 10  five inch AA guns/ five on each side, 2 cap fighters deployed with carrier no launch penalty
      Transports up to 10 aircraft not counting first 2 cap interceptors. Cap Planes do not suffer 3 turn limit as long as they remain              within 6" of carrier. They cannot fly further then 12 inches from carrier.  Can launch and/ or recover up to six aircraft a turn
      You can up load your Carriers with any mix and match you want, They can all be the same or not.
      Torpedo Bulges @ 25pts

Against aircraft only                                                        Against Ships only
                      Att.            Def.          Wounds            save                    Attack strength      Save                    Cost
Fighters-            4+              4+                1                  4+                        4+      2              4+                      20pts
speed 18 inches

Dive bombers      4+              5+                  1                  5+                        4+      9                3+                      30 pts
speed 18 inches

Torpedo bombers  5+          5+                  1                  5+                        4+(5+) submerged subs    3+            15pts
speed 15 inches. must have a torpedo on board and a destroyer within line of sight of target to attack a submerged sub              use strength of torpedo

Long Range Fighters  4+            4+                  1                  4+                      4+        2                4+                      25 pts
speed 24 inches

Scout planes        5+            5+                  1                  5+                        5+      2                  5+                      10 pts
speed 18 inches. may extend the max. range beyond 36 inches for 1 Battleship, target must be within 36" of scout plane

AIRPLANES AND COMBAT MOVEMENT
Movement-- airplanes have a flight time of four offensive turns, before they must head directly back to there own carrier first, if it is sunk it goes to the next closes and so on. An offensive turn starts at the begining of movement and ends after movement or attacking. If the plane does not move it still counts as an offensive turn. (Its patroling and still burning gas)
EXAMPLE- Fighters can fly a total of 72  inches strait out from its carrier but will need four turns to do so. After all four turns have passed the airplanes must return directly to a friendly carrier and may not attack anything, they may how ever Defend.

Airplane-vs-Airplane
Plane A attacks Plane B  PLane A is a fighter so it needs to roll a 4 or higher on a d6. A 5 is rolled and scores a hit. Plane B is a Dive Bomber So it needs to roll a 5 or higher since it is being attacked by another plane. Wow a five is rolled and the planes armour saves it. Plane B may now roll its defend value against planes It Needs another 5 or higher, A six is rolled A hit. Plane A is forced to make a save. He rolls a 2 and fails his armour save and is removed as a casualty.

Planes- vs - Ships
Example- 3 Dive bombers attack a cruiser the ships AA def. fires first. 1 die for every plane and the ship needs to roll 5 or higher The ship rolls 3,5,6 Two hits are scored. The dive bombers check their save vs Ships and finds out it needs to roll 3’s or higher to save.
2,3 is rolled 1 dive bomber is lost. the other 2 make rolls of 1 d6 each  And adds the strength (9) of the weapon together. 4,1 is rolled so we have 1 strength 10 wound and 1 strength 13. The cruisers armour is ten. The Cruiser is forced to make 2 save attempts.
2,3, is rolled two failed attempts = two wounds

Planes must be within 3" inches of target ship or plane in order to attack it. This does not includes torpedo bombers using torpedos.
You may stack up against 1 target with planes. ex. 3 planes attack 1. Planes have a max number of attacks, 1 per offensive turn. Torpedo bombers carry only 1 fish. can reload on carrier

Game Continued

Ships and movement. Speed is the max distance any 1 thing may go       
Gun boats are unlimited in turning
Destroyers and sub may perform up to 180 degrees of turning
All Cruisers And Carriers may perform up to 90 degrees of turning
Battle ships may perform up to 45 degrees of turning
All ship movement is made with forward momentum. No Spinning in place

Officers
Before any game discuss if you want officers or not, and a seperate total of points spent on officers  100pts - 150pts is usually good
Max number of officers per ship is two
No stacking of bonuses +/- 1 pt max

Lieutenant- Can command 1 sub or 3 gun boats. Improves torpedo attacks by one to 4+ to hit for his sub or squad    10 pts

Flight Lieutenant- 2 per carrier improves attack and defend by +1/+1 can fly any type of plane. His personal plane gets a plus                                    1 to his save against other aircraft only  20  pts  May command up to 4 other aircraft.

Lt. Commander- Commands up to  3-4 subs or 2-3 destroyers
                      Improves torpedo attacks by 1 for his sqd,
                        if he is on a destroyer he will pick up enemy subs up to 36" away  30 pts

Commander– Commands 1-3 cruisers or 3-5 destroyers, 3-5 subs                                        40pts
              improves torpedo attacks by +1
              Sonar will detect sub up to 36" away
              All ships in his sqd.  get a +1 to their gunnery skill

Captain-  Can only command 1-3 Battleship, or 1-4 Cruisers, or 1-2 Carriers.        60 pts
              can mix and match cruisers and BB’s only, max of 4 ships in his sqd.

Battle ships/ Cruisers Only
              All ships in his squad gain 1 inch to movement and + 45 degrees of turning (Not stackable with Admiral)
              +1 to torpedo attacks his sqd only
              Precision fire. can reroll 1 failed  gunnery skill roll per ship in his sqd. Not torpedos!
              AA def. increased by 1 captains ship only
              +1 Gunnery skill  for all ships in sqd.

Carriers Only
              Can Launch And Recover 8 Aircraft per turn. Carriers may carry up to 2 additional Planes
              AA def. Gets a plus 1
              flight commanders cost 5 pts less
              Flight commanders can command 3-6 aircraft of the same type

Rear Admiral-- May command any ship.                                                                                                                    50pts

3 gun, turrets upgrade available. 3 dice per main turret instead of two.
              cost- Battleships 50pts,  Heavy Cruisers 25 pts, Cruisers 10pts

Vice admiral–1 per fleet, must be placed on a carrier.                                                                                                50pts
              All planes gain 1 more offensive turn 5 total.
              Torpedo bombers can carry two fish
              flight commanders do not count against max officers rule
              2 free cap fighters for his carrier, does not count against limit of aircraft

Admiral-- 1 per fleet must be on a Battleship, Heavy Cruiser, or carrier                                                                          75 pts
            All ships may attempt to fix them selves. any ship that attempts to fix itself forfiets any movement but may still
              fire with a minus -1 to there Gunnery skill
              On a roll of a d6 5+ fixs 1 wound
            Admirals ship may reroll 1 failed save attempt against his ship  Per turn
            At the begining of the game when you roll to see who goes first add 2 to the dice roll
              All ships within 8" of his ship may move an additional 3 inches in speed

Officers command radius. If an Officer has a sqd of boats or planes they must remain as a unit. they  must be within 6" of any other unit in its squad at all times
Officers go down with the ship. If an officers ship or plane is destroyed, all of his abilities for the squad are destroyed also.

@Imperious:

some battleships had 15 inch guns ( bismarck) and ships like yamato had 18.1 inch guns… you should add those sizes in case somebody wants such a ship.

in the case of the Yamato/ mushashi that thing fired like 24 miles away and required spotter planes for targeting information at that range.

also on torpedo planes you may want to differenciate between those biplanes like the british swordfish and something with the capabilities of japans kate torpedo bomber. The italians also used biplanes for torpedo runs. The germans had no skills at torpedo bombing… JU87 was used in this purpose to divebomb ships.

also by interseptors your talking about what kind of plane?

by scout plane i take it you are looking at something like catalinas or german ju-52?

I would like to expand this game and possibly market it, this just the starting point eventually I would like to build country specific lists.
I Mean when you look at the different units I have Iwant them to eventually become just a class. In other words You could Have the Bismark in you fleet and  it would use up 1 Battleship  class slot and cost you 300 pts,  you have only 2 BB slots Available, for your Navy, or something to that effect. Or if you where a German player you could use say U 37 Oceangoing types at 45 pts each or maybe U-1 class coastal types at 20 pts apiece but they both are of the sub class.  I right now am just  trying to get the game mechanichs to work right all the time and was hoping by posting this people will read it and hopefully play it and give me feedback. PLEASE anyone reading this  Feedback please

Yes I am And I have a copy of the same book  I have a basic American list and German List, I am currently working on the Japs, right now they and the British will probably have the most flexibility.  Has anyone actually tried to play this yet? just wondering