I think we’re talking past each other at this point, but I will reply to your replies regardless.
@DoManMacgee said:
If you want a smaller Axis and Allies game go play “Axis and Allies: 1941”
@hirohito22 said:
The point is not “smaller” but that soviet should have less regions based on the regions of India Persia etc. and hence less production potential but see below.
Yes, you want the distances on the map to be proportional to real life. The only ways to accomplish this are to:
A: Play a smaller-scale Axis & Allies Game.
B: Play a larger-scale Axis & Allies Game.
My initial suggestion was for you to play on a larger map, and your reply was to refuse on the grounds that “those games do not make Soviet [have] less land zones”, so in my second post I suggested that you try one of the smaller maps instead.
@DoManMacgee said:
Side note, the USSR is huge in real life. The Nazis lost the war because (among other things) their Blitzkrieg tactics weren’t as effective when invading a huge landmass like Russia. Russia being comprised of many territories in game is a reflection of that reality.
@hirohito22 said:
I wish you noticed that those two statements you just wrote self conflict.
They would be self-conflicting if I was arguing that the “Classic” map was a good map, but I’m not arguing that. The map is not historically accurate in the slightest. No one is disagreeing with you on this point.
the second one “many regions” is only relavant in the EAST of soviet in the 1980 version based on situation in 1942 [rulebook]. which would not delay Nazi only delay japan and since less length than India and Persia should be accessible to japan in the game. those regions are snowy ice undeveloped and empty and should be barely provide one production even when enlarged.
Every Axis & Allies game other than “Classic” drops the value of the territories East of Moscow to 1 IPC instead of 2 (except for Kazakhstan and Novosibirsk, to represent the reality that the Soviets moved a large amount of Russia’s industry east during the war). Every Axis & Allies game other than “Classic” also splits the German-Soviet front into multiple territories, making European Russia similarly vast to Asian Russia.
If you explicitly want the worthless land of Siberia to provide 0 IPC, you may actually be interested in “Axis & Allies: 1941”, which I suggested earlier in this thread. That game has lower IPC values for territories across the board, including territories with 0 IPC, like “Soviet Far East” and others.
your first statement is about the Nazi east front that is soviet west. this also has a problem kuz in 1942 the Nazis were near Moscow and Moscow was not north WEST from caucus mountains but north of east edj of black sea. chosing “spring 1942” caused other problems that I did not yet complain about. I did not complain about the five infantry west of Moscow. only the production potential and regions east from Moscow. althoe the location of Moscow should also be fixd and perhaps was fixd in a later game map. so if you know which game map please tell me. thanks.
Again, no one is arguing that the “Classic” map is not historically-accurate. “Classic” is the only Axis & Allies game set in 1942 where:
- Caucasus is west of Moscow, rather than south of it.
- The Nazis are not immediately in-striking-distance of Moscow at the beginning of the game.
As you appear to just want a map that’s similar in scale to “Classic”, but without the various historical inaccuracies and unrealistic IPC Values for territories, I will suggest the following maps for you to check out:
- Axis & Allies: 1941 - A more “basic” game than the others, but shrinks Asian Russia and drops its IPC values. Also moves Caucasus south of Moscow and puts Germans on the gates of Moscow. Full list of map changes below:
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“Caucasus” is moved south of “Russia” and gains an “Industrial Complex.” Is is also merged with the “Kazakh S.S.R.” territory.
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“Karelia S.S.R.” loses its “Industrial Complex”, and it split into two territories, “Karelia”, which is adjacent to “Finland-Norway”, “Eastern Europe” and the new “West Russia” territory (more on that below), and “Archangel”, which is adjacent to “West Russia”, “Russia” and “Urals” (which is just a renamed “Evenki National Orkug”)
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“Ukraine S.S.R.” is split into two territories, “West Russia”, which is adjacent to “Russia”, “Eastern Europe” and “Karelia”, and “Ukraine”, which is adjacent to “Eastern Europe” and “Caucasus”
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IPC values across the board have been heavily reduced. The changes are too extensive for me to give details here. If you are interested, please visit the forum for this version of the game.
- Axis & Allies: Revised Edition - The “sequel”, if you will, to “Classic 3rd Edition” (I say this because “Revised” was the first global Axis & Allies game to come out after “Classic”). Revised adds two new unit types (Destroyers and Artillery), and makes the following changes relevant to your critiques of “Classic”:
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Drops the IPC values of the Asian Russian territories to “1” instead of “2”.
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Germany’s overall IPC value is increased to 40 (from 32). USSR’s overall IPC value remains at 24.
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Limits production from “Industrial Complexes” to be equal to their IPC value (instead of a limit not existing for “Industrial Complexes” you originally own in “Classic”. This effectively gives Moscow “less production capabilities” than Germany). This change is in all Axis & Allies games other than “Classic”, but I’m giving credit to “Revised” for being the first main game to introduce said change.
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“Eastern Europe” is split into two territories, “Eastern Europe”, which is adjacent to “Karelia S.S.R.”, “Germany”, “Ukraine S.S.R.” and the new “Belorussia” territory (more on that below), and “Balkans”, which is adjacent to “Southern Europe”, “Germany” and “Ukraine S.S.R.”
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“Karelia S.S.R.” loses its “Industrial Complex”, and it split into two territories, “Karelia S.S.R.”, which is adjacent to “Norway” (which is just a renamed “Finland-Norway”), “Eastern Europe” and the new “Belorussia” and “West Russia” territories, and “Archangel”, which is adjacent to “West Russia” and “Russia”.
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“Ukraine S.S.R.” is split into two territories, “Belorussia”, which is adjacent to “Eastern Europe”, “Karelia S.S.R.”, “Archangel” and the new “West Russia” territory, and "Ukraine S.S.R. ", which is adjacent to “Eastern Europe”, “Caucasus” and “West Russia”.
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“Caucasus” is split into two territories, “West Russia”, which is German-owned at the beginning of the game and is adjacent to “Belorussia”, “Russia”, “Archangel” and “Karelia S.S.R.”, and “Caucasus”, which is adjacent to “Ukraine S.S.R.”, “Russia”, “Persia” and “Kazakh S.S.R.”. “Caucasus” also gains an “Industrial Complex.”
- Axis & Allies: Anniversary Edition - A game honoring the anniversary of Avalon Hills, the company that produced several of the Axis & Allies games. This one includes Italy and China as independent, fully-playable countries, and also introduces the Cruiser as a unit type. It also includes both a 1941 (beginning roughly with Operation Barbarossa and Pearl Harbor) and 1942 (trying to mimic the setup of “Classic”) setup. Anniversary makes the following changes relevant to your critiques of “Classic”:
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Asian Russia is split into 6 territories (up from 3 in Classic), each worth 1 IPC. The changes are extensive, so I will not go into detail. You may not like this change, as it increases the number of Russian territories, rather than decreases them/their value.
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Numerous changes to European Russia and Europe in general, centered around the inclusion of Italy as a playable country. Changes summarized below (they’re too extensive for a 1:1 comparison to “Classic”):
2.a. Germany always controls “Germany”, “Northwest Europe”, “France”, “Norway”, “Finland”, “Poland”, “Czechoslovakia-Hungary”, “Bulgaria-Romania” and “Morocco Algeria”
2.b. Italy always controls “Italy”, “Balkans” and “Libya”
2.c. USSR always controls “Karelia S.S.R.”, “Archangel”, “Russia”, “Caucasus”, “Urals”, “Kazakh S.S.R.”, “Novosibirsk”, “Yakut S.S.R.”, “Evenki National Orkug”, “Yakut S.S.R.”, “Buryatia S.S.R.” and “Soviet Far East”
2.d. The following territories are controlled by the USSR in the 1941 scenario, but by Germany in the 1942 scenario:
“East Poland”, “Baltic States”, “Ukraine”, “Eastern Ukraine”, “Belorussia”
- Starting incomes for the relevant parties (Germany/USSR) are as follows:
1941 - Germany: 31, USSR - 30
1942 - Germany: 37, Russia - 24
In both scenarios, Italy has 10 IPC for itself.
- “National Objectives” exist, allowing players to gain bonus IPCs based on controlling specific territories. I will not go into detail on those here. Please visit the forum for this version if you want to learn more.