Amphibious Assaults

@Argothair:

Baron Munchhausen, thanks for the great summary of the earlier thread!

I very much like the idea of a single new type of “Elite / Special Forces” unit that could fill the roles of Marine, Paratrooper, Storm Trooper, and Commando, and that would trade off some of its sustained combat power for extra mobility and niche special attacks. I think introducing more than one new type of infantry unit would make it hard to find (and distinguish!) sculpts without adding much more in the way of tactical interest.

I also approve of efforts to make amphibious assaults weaker; I might even go so far as to deny artillery and tanks the power to roll dice in the first combat round. Just have a preemptive combat round with Elites, Cruisers, Battleships, and airplanes vs. Artillery, AAA, and airplanes. Then in round 2 of combat and on, roll as normal. I like the idea of having AAA continue to roll in each round of combat, but given the setup of the preemptive round (where AAA are one of only a few unit types that can fire), I don’t see the need to grant them special “double-shot” powers. The cost of an AAA unit might need to go up by $1 to keep them balanced.

To balance out weaker amphibious assaults, I think we need to make it much easier/cheaper/faster to ship troops across the ocean. I know there is at least one very long thread about redesigning the roster of naval unit types, and I BEG you all NOT to repeat that thread here, but I want to point out that if you make amphibious assaults weaker without finding a way to make transports more efficient, then it will become so difficult for the Allies to invade Europe that it will effectively remove Atlantic naval invasions as a practical option, so that the Allies will be limited to a handful of non-naval strategies like strategic bombing campaigns, flying fighters to Moscow, and putting 2+ factories in the Middle East. You will almost never get to play with your cool new marines and pre-emptive artillery strikes, because people will very rarely bother to invade Europe.

Thanks, my pleasure.
About increasing transport, first there is this:
Sea movement bonus:
1 Marines unit can be carried on 1 Battleship or 1 Cruiser.
Transport can load 2 Marines or 1 Marines plus any other 1 ground unit.

Also, Cruiser should be considered a A3 D3 C12 M3-4 unit (M4 with Naval Base bonus).
This would increase the number of ground units available as fast reinforcement, or as part of TP fleet.

Transport should not be able to load 3 units.
But US may receive 1 free TP on west coast and 1 free TP on east coast each turn when at war with Japan (+1 Western US TP) and/or Germany (+1 Eastern US TP).
This would figure the intensive and massive building of Liberty ships.

@WILD:

Thanks Baron Munchhausen, I wish I had seen that thread because there are so many similarities (wish I would have been a part of it). It is spot on for how I view an amphib should be, and then it even gets into a Special Forces Unit (that was awesome).

For amphibs def art getting a pre-empt strike in the first round (same time you fire AA gun), and attacking inf/mech not getting the art pairing boost in the first round would make the landings much more difficult. I agree that theoretically art and tanks should also be held out of the first round too, but I don’t want to go over board.

As for AA guns I’m looking at general house rule where AA guns fire 2 shots in the first round, and 1 shot every round after (probably still keeping them pre-empt). I just don’t think they should be a blow the wad and take one for the team type of unit. **AA should be allowed to continue to roll at air craft instead of having no use so you take it as a hit (it would still be able to take a hit if the owner wants).

In the same breath I’m also looking at tac bmrs being able to target navy or ground when they roll “1”. So it would be possible to take out an AA gun (or tank, art, damaged BB etc….) among other changes.**

I don’t know if you see this, maybe it can provide ideas for what you are looking for:

Here is where I actually stand about a cost structure and simplify interactions between planes,

Unit type        Cost    - 3 IPCs incremental scale
Combat values
Special abilities

AIRCRAFTS & ANTI-AIRCRAFT

All aircrafts can hit unsubmerged Submarines without Destroyer presence.
Any single attacking aircraft blocks special Scattering Transport capacity.
Air Retreat option: All attacking aircrafts can withdraw anytime while attacking ground units can continue combat (similar to amphibious assault air retreat).
AAA and Aircrafts special rolls have to be rolled first in regular combat phase and hits immediately allocated.

Fighter   9 IPCs
A3 D4 M4 (5 with Air Base bonus)
Air superiority unit: **On “1” or “2” roll hit aircraft first, then AAA, if available.  **
No combined arms.
Can land on Carrier.
SBR: A2 D2

Tactical Bomber   10 IPCs
A3 D3 M4 (5 with Air Base bonus)
Tank buster unit: On “1” or “2” roll pick any ground unit type as casualty.
Dive and Torpedo bomber unit: On “1” or “2” roll, hits must be taken on a Capital warship, owner choose individual unit type.
On a “1” roll can take plane as casualty instead of ground unit or Capital warship, owner still choose individual unit type.
No combined arms.
Can land on Carrier.
TBR: A1 first strike
Damage: 1D6 on Air Base and Naval Base.
Can do SBR air combat mission with StBs even if there is no AB or NB with IC. IC’s AAgun fire still apply to TcBs in this case.

Strategic Bomber   12 IPCs
A4 D1 M6 (7 with Air Base bonus)
On a “1” attack roll can take aircraft as casualty instead, owner still choose individual unit type.
SBR:  AA1 first strike up to two Fighters, which ever the lesser
Damage :  1D6+2

Anti-Aircraft Artillery    5 IPCs
A0 D1 regular AA1x3* M1 on CM or NCM, 1 hit,
*Fire in regular phase each combat round @1 against up to three aircrafts, which ever the lesser.
Regular defense @1 if there is no enemy’s attacking plane.

@WILD:

Reason being is that I don’t like how the axis rarely defend the coast, they generally set up a counter attack inland instead because of the games mechanics.

This is not a problem that is limited to coastal territories only. Because the game mechanic strongly favors the Attack, the rational players are forced to build huge stacks of units, surrendered by deadzones with a lonely infantry or destroyer as a blocker. You see this all over the map. An empty Normandy is no more historically uncorrect than a Poland with one infantry being traded every turn by another lone infantry. Maybe the game mechanic of A&A 1914 with one round of combat only and contested territories is more historical correct than Global 40 ? I dunno man.

That said, I really love the 1914 rule that let defending artillery roll one preemptive shot against landing units. It dont ruin game balance, but it do give the Amphibious assault a more autentich feeling. Of course it must be the first round of combat only, since that is the round the Attackers are supposed to be landing. The continuing rounds are supposed to be general land combat.

@WILD:

Baron, nice line up w/units. Most are in line with what I’m trying to develop. Not sure if I’m going to change units cost on planes but if there is too much attrition to air and navy I will probably lower some stuff as well.

Back to first strike art defending against an amphib (first round of battle). How do you handle it when a territory is attacked by land and sea. How do you assign the art that are in the defending territory. Do you allow only some art to roll first strike, maybe equal to the number of amphib units, and the rest roll normal?

PS: Do you think it would be over powering for all defending art to fire a first strike shot in the 1st round of battle. My original thought was all art should get a pre-empt shot in the 1st round, but I decided to test the waters on amphib defense first. I agree w/Narvic that the mechanics pretty much force you to back down and picket rather then set up to defend a territory (or region). Not sure if the Russians would attempt to put up more of a fight at the front lines or would they just retreat their art for the final assault on Moscow.

Your idea is much more simpler to apply. That way, all Artillery unit types, including Anti-Aircraft, roll a first shot. Then a regular combat begins. That way, defending Artillery would get two shots after first combat round completed. No need to make a distinction between amphib and others.
Debarkment difficulty is simulated by not allowing on first round attacker’s combined arms.

@Narvik:

@WILD:

Reason being is that I don’t like how the axis rarely defend the coast, they generally set up a counter attack inland instead because of the games mechanics.

This is not a problem that is limited to coastal territories only. Because the game mechanic strongly favors the Attack, the rational players are forced to build huge stacks of units, surrendered by deadzones with a lonely infantry or destroyer as a blocker. You see this all over the map. An empty Normandy is no more historically uncorrect than a Poland with one infantry being traded every turn by another lone infantry. Maybe the game mechanic of A&A 1914 with one round of combat only and contested territories is more historical correct than Global 40 ? I dunno man.

That said, I really love the 1914 rule that let defending artillery roll one preemptive shot against landing units. It dont ruin game balance, but it do give the Amphibious assault a more autentich feeling. Of course it must be the first round of combat only, since that is the round the Attackers are supposed to be landing. The continuing rounds are supposed to be general land combat.

I’m still thinking AAA should be the kind of unit to use in defensive stance to repel light trading.
I’m thinking about something like :
Anti-Aircraft Artillery (simulating defensive stronghold and bunker).
Attack 0
Defense 1, plus up to three first strike @1 against attacking planes, which ever the lesser
Move 1 (both CM or NCM)
Cost 4
Hits 2, no need to repair if it survives : one free hit repaired next turn.
That way, on first combat round AAA have two rolls (up to three vs planes) with first strike and one regular @1 vs any kind of units.
On next combat round, it still keep Def 1, thus one roll.

This kind of unit would be use as ground blocker.
Probably the optimized defense should be then 1 Inf and 1 AAA for 7 IPCs, total:  A1 D3, 3 hits
with up to 5 dice rolls in first combat round.
Or
1 Art and 1 AAA for sum : A2 D3, 3 hits, 8 IPCs
With up to 6 dice rolls in first combat round.
Such features would clearly be incentive to keep such units on defense rather than preparing a counter-offensive.

Well you could add any defenders killed by Battleships and Cruisers get no return fire or a defense roll.