Windows 8

Last weekend I needed a cheapy computer for something in a hurry so I ran out to Walmart and grabbed the standard $400 laptop, forgetting all about the Windows 8 rumours I’ve heard.  Sure enough, the poor thing was infected with Windows 8 and I couldn;t make heads nor tails of it.  So I took it back to the store and claimed the OS is unusable and therefore defective and the kid working there agreed with me and gave me a refund.  :-D

Windows 8 is garbage.  Macs are toys.  These things are not really meant for people who actually use computers as tools to do their work and earn a living.  If you want a tablet or a phone, then buy a tablet or a phone and go play with it.  If you want a computer to do your work, then I guess you need to get a used one with windows 7 or XP, or be a complete tool and pay an extra $99 for Windows 7.  What a bunch of sh!t.  If they keep this up I’m going to Linux.

And another thing, Openoffice or Libreoffice is 110% better than microsoft office and its free.

Macs are not meant for people who work?  Maybe if you do software development……  But windows 8 does suck.  Macs have the highest user satisfaction rating of any computer.  I of course use a PC…

I hate that microsoft keeps changing where to find things.  Memories of using 6 other MS versions doesn’t help.

Agreed on Openoffice, I use it.

Windows sales are based on unit shipments.  If you get a pc with windows 8 and downgrade it to win7 for your corporation standards, it still counts as a windows 8 sale even if the license is NEVER activated.

@MrMalachiCrunch:

Windows sales are based on unit shipments.  If you get a pc with windows 8 and downgrade it to win7 for your corporation standards, it still counts as a windows 8 sale even if the license is NEVER activated.

Oh brother.  I wonder if anyone at microsoft is keeping track of how many people downgrade!  I think as of the spring you had to buy the windows 7 disc to downgrade but they might have changed that since then.  It should be free obviously.

I’m sure they keep track of it, they just will never publish it……

@variance:

Last weekend I needed a cheapy computer for something in a hurry so I ran out to Walmart and grabbed the standard $400 laptop, forgetting all about the Windows 8 rumours I’ve heard.  Sure enough, the poor thing was infected with Windows 8 and I couldn;t make heads nor tails of it.  So I took it back to the store and claimed the OS is unusable and therefore defective and the kid working there agreed with me and gave me a refund.   :-D

Windows 8 is garbage.  Macs are toys.  These things are not really meant for people who actually use computers as tools to do their work and earn a living.  If you want a tablet or a phone, then buy a tablet or a phone and go play with it.  If you want a computer to do your work, then I guess you need to get a used one with windows 7 or XP, or be a complete tool and pay an extra $99 for Windows 7.  What a bunch of sh!t.  If they keep this up I’m going to Linux.

And another thing, Openoffice or Libreoffice is 110% better than microsoft office and its free.

Use PowerShell.  It’s awesome and true to its name, it’s very powerful.

I’m studying the MCSE 2012 for Server and Win8.  There’s a lot features that kick ass but most people will never use them nor know about them.  In a Core installation for Server, you can only use PowerShell - however you can do it from any computer.

Seriously, though, the “this OS sucks because I won’t take the time to learn it” is old.  A tool is only as useful as the person wielding it.

@Uncrustable:

yes i believe anyone that purchases windows 8 can downgrade?
this is the only reason the sales show a decent number

but if you look at user% it is the worst windows ever…even vista blows it out of the water and that is just sad. xp and 7 are both used nearly 3x as much as 8

Raw numbers, sure, but that’s not a fair comparison.  I already went over this - Win8 is on an identical pace that 7 and XP went on for sales/usage.

Also, XP users have about 6 months to replace their 12 year old OS!  XP is almost old enough to shave and drive itself…

Most people don’t because they don’t do anything than email, a few apps, and browse the internet.  Their phone is more powerful than their PC.  What’s the point of owning one if you can carry your computer around all day?  The needs of most users they don’t need much.

Sorry jermofoot, but I have to disagree.  Designers of any product, including software, have to make sure their product is not only powerful but usable in the minds of the users.  That’s why they call it software design.  Microsoft’s genuises completely ignored human factors when they misdesigned windows 8 and now no one wants it.  That’s on them; not the users.

@variance:

Sorry jermofoot, but I have to disagree.  Designers of any product, including software, have to make sure their product is not only powerful but usable in the minds of the users.  That’s why they call it software design.  Microsoft’s genuises completely ignored human factors when they misdesigned windows 8 and now no one wants it.  That’s on them; not the users.

Windows Fate.

@variance:

Sorry jermofoot, but I have to disagree.  Designers of any product, including software, have to make sure their product is not only powerful but usable in the minds of the users.  That’s why they call it software design.  Microsoft’s genuises completely ignored human factors when they misdesigned windows 8 and now no one wants it.  That’s on them; not the users.

Ok….what are they?

It supports touch - your fingers.

It has a GUI.

Mouse and keyboard are supported.

Hell, you can voice control it if you wanted to (built-in)

Plenty of people use it, including me.  I don’t follow the argument.

Where in Win8 is it preventing you from doing “real work”, whatever that is.

OK so no one is EVER going to sit at their desk and glom their sticky fingers all over their expensive touchscreen when a mouse has been the tool of choice for decades.  Its just not what people want to do and we don’t care that microsoft wants us to. Voice activation sounds about as fun as talking to a voicemail robot.  No dice.

Now, to get these “features” we have to sacrifice all the basic, simple things that people have been taught to use ever since windows 95.  The point of using a computer is not the OS; it’s the word processor, the spreadsheet, the internet browser, and in some cases the weird programming or scientific/engineering applications that some of us call work. If the OS gets in the way of getting that work done we don’t want it.  The OS should be like makeup on a pretty girl - you shouldn’t even notice its there if its doing its job right.

Windows HATE gets a fail.

Jermofoot, corporate people who use windows for productivity are the ones complaining about windows 8.  Pick up a non-microsoft sponsored trade journal on IT and read what users are saying, they hate it.

Corporations don’t like upgrading operating systems because it often breaks older software that works just fine.  There is a reason why lots of companies still use older versions of an OS besides just being lazy.

You think windows 8 is all that, try reading some articles on it from people not on the microsoft payroll…

This site is a bit whacked but I recommend it for IT and strangish science news…

http://www.theregister.co.uk/

variance hit the nail on the head.  People don’t want to relearn the applications they have been using for years just to do the same job.  I started in IT BEFORE windows…  I was a power user of windows 3.11, and have to write software for microsoft operating systems using microsoft programming tools.  Trust me, change is not a welcome thing when it is forced on you.

@variance:

OK so no one is EVER going to sit at their desk and glom their sticky fingers all over their expensive touchscreen when a mouse has been the tool of choice for decades.  Its just not what people want to do and we don’t care that microsoft wants us to. Voice activation sounds about as fun as talking to a voicemail robot.  No dice.

Now, to get these “features” we have to sacrifice all the basic, simple things that people have been taught to use ever since windows 95.  The point of using a computer is not the OS; it’s the word processor, the spreadsheet, the internet browser, and in some cases the weird programming or scientific/engineering applications that some of us call work. If the OS gets in the way of getting that work done we don’t want it.  The OS should be like makeup on a pretty girl - you shouldn’t even notice its there if its doing its job right.

Windows HATE gets a fail.

You still aren’t giving specifics.  I just helped a client to map a drive and they were using Windows 8.  If I knew the windows powershell command off the top of my head, it would have been done in seconds.  Instead, it took about a minute, and most of that was identifying the path of the network share.

The lack of a Start button did not prevent my ability to get it done, nor delay the resolution noticeably, if at all.

Voice dictation has come a long way and works pretty smoothly.  Not what I remember back in the 90s, which was pretty hilarious in the unintentional results that came up.

I’m not what “features we have to sacrifice” to use a mouse.  It’s there.  The keyboard - also there.  There is realistically no functional difference between operating the way you would in Win95 in Win8.  I’ve done it dozens of times at this point. I still don’t see where the “OS is getting in the way”.  If I can do it jumping in blindly, and a self-described “computer illiterate” user can do it in an hour, I don’t believe there is an issue here except that people want to make it one.

So tell me again….where is the issue?  You say you have an issue with the OS getting in the way of reaching say, a Word Processor.  I can give you probably a dozen ways to reach it.  How in the world do you blame the OS when the User can’t find his way around when there are literally more ways to reach it than ever before, including how it was accessed previously???

@MrMalachiCrunch:

Jermofoot, corporate people who use windows for productivity are the ones complaining about windows 8.  Pick up a non-microsoft sponsored trade journal on IT and read what users are saying, they hate it.

Corporations don’t like upgrading operating systems because it often breaks older software that works just fine.  There is a reason why lots of companies still use older versions of an OS besides just being lazy.

You think windows 8 is all that, try reading some articles on it from people not on the microsoft payroll…

This site is a bit whacked but I recommend it for IT and strangish science news…

http://www.theregister.co.uk/

variance hit the nail on the head.  People don’t want to relearn the applications they have been using for years just to do the same job.  I started in IT BEFORE windows…  I was a power user of windows 3.11, and have to write software for microsoft operating systems using microsoft programming tools.  Trust me, change is not a welcome thing when it is forced on you.

You are right and that is a valid point.  However, that is not relegated to Win8 alone: all previously releases of Win O/S had the same compatibility issue with programs designed for the preceding release.  There are some compatibility approaches to this: run in different modes on the current O/S, install a virtual O/S, but nothing is perfect.  Additionally, the number 1 factor in upgrading isn’t user experience or compatibility, it’s BUDGET, guaranteed.

As far as not updating - same thing, many people are on XP and never moved to Vista or 7.  The majority of our clients are this way, and are honestly waiting way too long to implement and upgrade to a newer O/S.  There is a very real security issue here.  Software changes (and should) just as well…yet where are the complaints?  I feel it’s unfairly directed at MS because people are lazy, impatient, and think everything should just automatically work.  Expectations are completely wrong.  But that’s beside the point.

I need specifics on why people claim it’s so terrible.  Saying it does not make it so, and so far the few complaints I’ve run into all come down to a user doesn’t take the time to familiarize themselves.  AN HOUR.  Anyone that purchases any utility, electronic, tool, vehicle, etc. and does not spend at least a cursory amount of time reading a manual or orienting themselves are just being irresponsible.

I will give MS is due criticism, however I don’t think it’s here.

Windows 95 was better than 3.11 and xp was better still, so people adopted them and many are still perfectly happy with xp or 7.  The only thing that makes xp “obsolete” is microsoft decided to not support it anymore just so they can ram this windows 8 garbage down our throats (and don’t give me any crap about security issues because it should be microsoft’s job to release any necessary patches to support the product they sold us).  If windows 8 was an improvement over xp or 7 they wouldn’t have to force it; people would see the advantages and adopt it but that’s not what’s happening because windows 8 just plain sucks.

Here are some specifics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Qo_2I0NvQ&feature=share

@variance:

Windows 95 was better than 3.11 and xp was better still, so people adopted them and many are still perfectly happy with xp or 7.  The only thing that makes xp “obsolete” is microsoft decided to not support it anymore

It’s called a lifecycle, which they extended before Win8 even came out.  Every other OS/Application developer does the same lifecycle.

just so they can ram this windows 8 garbage down our throats (and don’t give me any crap about security issues because it should be microsoft’s job to release any necessary patches to support the product they sold us).

They did and still do…until April 2014.  You’ve plenty of opportunity to plan for this with multiple options to choose from. Because you haven’t isn’t Microsoft’s problem, it’s yours.  To expect them to support a nearly decade and a half old Operating system when 3(!) more have been released since then, is incredibly unreasonable.

If windows 8 was an improvement over xp or 7 they wouldn’t have to force it; people would see the advantages and adopt it but that’s not what’s happening because windows 8 just plain sucks.

It’s not being forced.  You can buy Win7 and install it from vendors.  You could buy and install any O/S you’d like, but that’s at your risk and doesn’t take full advantage of the hardware’s capabilities.  People don’t know the advantages because as you said - you just walked out and bought a computer without looking into it first. You probably don’t need everything it has to offer, however.

You still need to go into detail why it sucks.  I won’t just take your word for it.

Here are some specifics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Qo_2I0NvQ&feature=share

1. HURR…no start menu…HURR - it’s there.  There’s just not a button.  You go to the same exact spot and click on it.  Seriously, it’s not that hard.
2. Doesn’t like the Charms Bar - ok, don’t use it.  Then also don’t go on to complain how he has to go out of his way to get to it (does that make any bit of sense) and COMPLETELY skips over the Start Menu option because it would hurt his “point” in #1.
3. Doesn’t like the default stuff on the start/apps menus.  That’s why it’s customizable.  Buy a new house and complain about the wall paper?  There’s a reason why we don’t do this…
4. Doesn’t like the default stuff preloaded on his computer like any other computer purchased anywhere for decades
5. Complains after not buying tech support because of a wholesale purchase (moron) and wants another piece of software and license for free.

I’m sure there are valid complaints.  These are not one of them.

Jermofoot, my job is not to inform you of what the rest of the world is saying about windows 8, YOU should be curious, if you are not then I really can’t help you.

Education is good, I commend you on that.  I would offer you some advice, learn linux as well.  Your MS ticket can be declared outdated just like an older version of windows where support is no longer provided.

Microsoft cans three ‘pinnacle’ certifications, sparking user fury
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/31/microsoft_cans_three_pinnacle_certifications_sparking_user_fury/

You might be interested in this…
Windows 8.1: Microsoft’s reluctant upgrade has a split-screen personality
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/12/windows_eight_one_review/

Windows 8 is really 8.00

In the software world, we call the version X. “oh oh”.  You avoid version “oh oh” like the plague.

Power users who type don’t want to take their hands of the keyboard to freaking touch the screen……

It’s called a lifecycle, which they extended before Win8 even came out.  Every other OS/Application developer does the same lifecycle.

Jermofoot, really?  I would qualify your statement with “some”, especially at microsoft.  Do you personally know a developer?

Extends hand….  Pleased to meet you Jermofoot.  If you didn’t know a developer personally before, you do now.  I fancy myself a renaissance man so I won’t claim I have 31 years of software development just because I got paid for my first program in 1982.  But over the years I obtained a 4 year BSc in computer science and software I wrote over 15 years ago is still running just fine on fortune 500 companies and in fact some modules are still being sold unchanged 15 years later.  Of course, I didn’t weld my software to microsoft solutions.  I modularized them and my modules still work and sell whereas the modules where I isolated microsoft specific technology don’t.  Microsoft broke them.  Specifically the MDAC dll database connectivity stuff.  RDO upgraded to ADO then upgraded to ActiveX gosh all over the span of 4 years.  All quite defunct now.  All the database stuff switched over eventually from SQL server to a linux based and now cloud based system.  My modules STILL work untouched in the new paradigm.

Software and operating systems don’t have to break every few years.  You should research emulation, you’d be surprised how many legacy software solutions are running decades and decades later on simulated computers running on cloud platforms.

Just be flexible with technology ‘camps’ and diversify the knowledge portfolio.

MrMalachiCrunch, as an IT expert, do you get the impression that microsoft engages in “planned obsolescence” as a business strategy?  If so, do you feel that it is unethical?

MS is unethical but not because of that per se.  They have every right to abuse their market position.  And the market will respond as it is.  MS is in real danger in their desktop operating system business.  Getting to the point you don’t need a MS OS to do day to day tasks.  They still have MS Office but if that bastion falls too they are in real deep do do.

My problem is not learning something new per se but learning something new because MS sees all of Apple’s “ap store” cash and wants in on it. Windows 8 and the Xbox One seem to be a “this is our corporate vision and we’re not interested in whether it is really what customers want.”

Learning something new is great.  Spending time learning how to do something old you used to know how to do one way but now are forced to do another way is a waste of effort.