Playable Nations in 1914

@Imperious:

Sorry you feel that way. All events that are not directly part of WW1 should be on fixed timelines. Otherwise, if the Americans never enter the central powers will usually win. If the Russians don’t fall or fall late due to DICE rolls, the game will end in Allied victory. Like Global 40, you can’t have variable entry.

<facepalm>In global 1940 you DO HAVE VARIABLE ENTRY.

I stopped reading after that. If you can’t admit that it seems that you are just trolling or at the very least not capable of having a civil discussion.</facepalm>

Ok then in Global USA can start the war early with Germany. Any time.

USSR can always start a war with Germany and Italy at any time.

Just wanted to make that clear, but where in the rules is that allowed?

I wonder then, why are they listed neutral? shouldn’t they just be belligerents?  And what is this thing about Russia not being able to start a war with Germany before turn 3 and USA before turn 4?

What turn does Japan enter the war against the USA and UK in AA Global 1940?

What turn do you avoid the question i asked?

USSR can start attacking Germany on her first turn?

USA can immediately land troops in France?

This is an example of fixed political rules for events, because to allow otherwise means the game would be broken.

When you admit that we can continue.  Why not have a game where Japan is neutral? Italy? you see the game can’t be so totally open ended as to allow all sorts of variable events causing a delay or early entry of nations. The axis decide if they enter early and employ a specific strategy to make the best use of either an early or at the FIXED ENTRY TURN that the game provides.

So using for example this variable Russian collapse ( and appearance of Flashmans illustrious ‘Red Army’ pieces fighting WITH Germany). If the conditions allowed an early event ( collapse) the Central powers will benefit too much and all those freed up pieces would decide the game. IN this case early entry would be too much of a boost for the Central powers. Thats why it is fixed at turn 13 for the START OF THE POSSIBILITY OF THIS EVENT. We allow modifiers for control of specific areas of Russia to facilitate this, but we don’t allow say Russian revolution in 1916, otherwise the game is busted.

Balance and realistic player options trump “anything for anyone at anytime” style games.

In the meantime watch and be calm…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBMk-JXENEM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contestado_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_Crisis_of_1917

We need yet another set of pieces simulating this war. Add them to the turn order…

My preferred scheme updated to include all the extras.

France - Blue
Britain - Brown(khaki)
USA - Green
Russia - Light Grey
Italy - Light Green
Turkey - Light Tan
Austria - White
Germany - Field Grey
Brazilian Army- Black
Mexico- red ( salsa color actually)
Indians- whiskey color
Canadians- lime green or red

Communists - Red
Nationalists - Black
Japan - Dark Blue
China - Yellow
Neutrals - Orange
Rebels- Polka dot
US border army- another shade of green
Cartwright’s- cream ( in honor of Hoss)
Protestors- yellow

That is purposely taking my points and distorting them. When did I say that anything should happen at at anytime at all? I realize USSR and other countries in global have restrictions. That is not the same as scheduling the exact specific turn that an even can happen that cannot happen any other turn regardless of game conditions, which is what saying “Revolution happens turn X” is.

A provocation system is a cumulative process. It isn’t just a random start to hostilities. They can’t just start “any time.”

NOWHERE did I say that there should be no fixed rules at all. What I DID say was that having an even such as the Russian Revolution especially automatically happen at turn X is a bad idea.

It is asinine to assert that I was calling for an “anything goes” game.

Do you not realize that your own idea is a variable turn condition for the Russian Revolution? What turn does it happen? Well, possibly turn X. But possibly not. It could be a different turn. Look at that! A variable event! Now I am 99% sure you are just trolling instead of 98%.

You make it sound like the cumulative process like my provocation system could happen in the very early turns. Had you read my post for what it said instead of what you wanted it to say so you could attack things that weren’t there, you would see that these points would need to add up to a certain total, and would take many turns to happen unless, of course, Russia just moved all its units to the farthest east corner of the map and let the cp just waltz in.

This is an example of a variable turn effect:

"Special Events:
Russian Revolution:
Russian Revolution � Can begin on turn 10.  At the beginning of turn 10 a roll is made to see if Russia goes into a civil war.  On a D6 roll of 1 the country spirals into revolution.  This roll is modified as follows:

-2 to the roll if an allied capital is held by the Central Powers (-1 if contested)
-2 to the roll if Petrograd is held by the Central Powers (-1 if contested)
-1 to the roll if Moscow is held by the Central Powers (-1/2 if contested)
-1/2 to roll (rounded down) per additional Russian or controlled allied territory that is held (-0 if contested)
+1/2 (rounded down) to the roll per enemy territory held by the Russians or its controlled allies (+0 if contested)
+2 to roll if an enemy capital is held by the Allies (+1 if contested)
The roll is made each and every turn afterwards.  If Russia goes into a revolution she will surrender and all her remaining forces (within Russia) are removed from the game.  All other units outside of Russia, including any controlled territories, are considered to belong to the Russian-controlled Allies.  Furthermore, Serbia, Romania, and Montenegro will remain controlled by the Russian player.  However, Serbia will continue to follow the special rules for the �fall of Serbia.�

Effect: Germany gains economic and total control of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Belorussia, Kiev, Ukraine and Crimea. German units in any other Russian areas must retreat and the German player gains no benefit from other Russian areas. All Russian units are removed from play."

By the way, what happens with the German naval mutiny if they have sunk every british ship and have the seas completely dominated, and are close to winning the war? How does a mutiny in such a scenario make sense?

Here is what I posted before, in greater detail.

Provocation Point System:

Russian Example:

Russian Revolution Occurs if at the start of any russian turn the Provocation Point Total is equal to or greater than 100 (for example)
Add 2 each time a CP conquers an Originally russian Territory (can be multiple times for one territory)
Add 1 each time a CP conquers a CP territory that was under Russian control at the time of its capture (Can be multiple times for one territory
Add 5 for each originally Russian IC that is captured by a CP. (Only once per IC)
Add 10 EACH TIME an originally Russian city is captured by a CP.
Add 3 each time russia attacks a territory with a land unit but does NOT capture that territory from that attack.
SUBTRACT 1 each time Russia captures an Originally CP territory
SUBTRACT 2 each time Russia captures an originally Russian territory that was under CP control.

There are finer points and things that need to be clarified of course but that’s the gist.

As you can see (EDIT: As you can see if you are not going out of your way to misinterpret and intentionally misread and unjustifiably attack), such an event would be VERY unlikely to happen remotely early in the game.

That is purposely taking my points and distorting them. When did I say that anything should happen at at any time? I realize USSR and other countries in global have restrictions. That is not the same as scheduling the exact specific turn that an even can happen that cannot happen any other turn regardless of game conditions, which is what saying “Revolution happens turn X” is.

The “discussion” ( air quotes) is how you think Global 40 allows for variable entry of the two neutrals ( USSR and USA) and how you keep using the same examples of Japan attacking UK and USA, or UK attacking Japan, or Russia attacking Japan. The game does not provide rules for allowing USSR and USA total freedom of choice to attack anybody. If it did the game would be busted.

IN the Great War example, we set the fixed date where you can start rolling for collapse. If the game didn’t have that, it also would be busted.

I have no idea why this is complicated. It has a fixed minimum threshold where you start rolling and the modifiers are dependent on control by central powers of specific areas. If the Russian player does really well, they still need this fixed rule for entry.

A provocation system is a cumulative process. It isn’t just a random start to hostilities. They can’t just start “any time.”

NOWHERE did I say that there should be no fixed rules at all. What I DID say was that having an even such as the Russian Revolution especially automatically happen at turn X is a bad idea.

It is asinine to assert that I was calling for an “anything goes” game.

Do you not realize that your own idea is a variable turn condition for the Russian Revolution? What turn does it happen? Well, possibly turn X. But possibly not. It could be a different turn. Look at that! A variable event! Now I am 99% sure you are just trolling instead of 98%.

It does not happen BEFORE TURN X. That is why i say the turn is fixed.

You make it sound like the cumulative process like my provocation system could happen in the very early turns. Had you read my post for what it said instead of what you wanted it to say so you could attack things that weren’t there, you would see that these points would need to add up to a certain total, and would take many turns to happen unless, of course, Russia just moved all its units to the farthest east corner of the map and let the cp just waltz in.

I am not arguing against your ideas, you are arguing against mine. Get it straight. I didn’t first quote you, you quoted me.

By the way, what happens with the German naval mutiny if they have sunk every british ship and have the seas completely dominated, and are close to winning the war? How does a mutiny in such a scenario make sense?

The game would be over already ( CP victory) if that happened. And the Germans would still be exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies for four years of fighting.

If they did this in say 1916 and game still continued, on the fixed event for Mutiny, Germany would still be exhausted. Only an early victory cuts out the event, if the game lasts till 1918, they get naval mutiny.

Provocation Point System:

Russian Example:

Russian Revolution Occurs if at the start of any russian turn the Provocation Point Total is equal to or greater than 100 (for example)
Add 2 each time a CP conquers an Originally russian Territory (can be multiple times for one territory)
Add 1 each time a CP conquers a CP territory that was under Russian control at the time of its capture (Can be multiple times for one territory
Add 5 for each originally Russian IC that is captured by a CP. (Only once per IC)
Add 10 EACH TIME an originally Russian city is captured by a CP.
Add 3 each time russia attacks a territory with a land unit but does NOT capture that territory from that attack.
SUBTRACT 1 each time Russia captures an Originally CP territory
SUBTRACT 2 each time Russia captures an originally Russian territory that was under CP control.

This point system means you got to count things from the start and keep track, the games system only allows the roll on turn 10 when you begin to count to get modifiers. This makes our system more easy and KISS, which is what AA is in terms of design. Point system will also allow possible early entry before turn 10 if you get that 100.

@Imperious:

The “discussion” ( air quotes) is how you think Global 40 allows for variable entry of the two neutrals ( USSR and USA) and how you keep using the same examples of Japan attacking UK and USA, or UK attacking Japan, or Russia attacking Japan. The game does not provide rules for allowing USSR and USA total freedom of choice to attack anybody. If it did the game would be busted.

WHERE did I say that USA and USSR had, have, or should have the ability to attack at any time in ANY version, 1940 or WWI? Where did I say that (other than in your mind)? Please stick to writing your own posts and stop writing mine in your own head and then responding to those fantasy posts.

By the way, what turn does USA enter the war in Global 1940? What turn does Russia enter the war? You mean it’s not the same turn every game. You mean it VARIES? But it’s still not variable entry eh?

Take a step back. Or four. If you had read my posts you would have seen that when I was talking about the provocation points, I was referring to their potential in a WWI game. Nowhere did I say that anyone should be able to declare war at anytime.

The simple FACT of the matter is that Global is a game where big events, such as beginnings of hostilities between powers, happen in DIFFERENT turns each game. And is that automatically “busted”?

@Imperious:

IN the Great War example, we set the fixed date where you can start rolling for collapse. If the game didn’t have that, it also would be busted.

Prove it. Seriously, you say that, but where is any evidence? Why is a system that requires multiple turns of cumulative events automatically “busted”?

@Imperious:

I have no idea why this is complicated. It has a fixed minimum threshold where you start rolling and the modifiers are dependent on control by central powers of specific areas. If the Russian player does really well, they still need this fixed rule for entry.

That is not fixed like you were suggesting earlier. That is variable. What turn does the revolution happen? It depends. Therefore variable. I have no idea why this is so complicated.

@Imperious:

It does not happen BEFORE TURN X. That is why i say the turn is fixed.

You must be a politician since you backtrack like that:

@Imperious:

Britain joins after an attack on any neutral (only the CPs can ever attack neutrals!)

USA really needs a chart to track its attitude to war; its entry certainly shouldn’t be automatic after X turns.

The game would be ruined since the Central powers would avoid UK the entire game, A variable entry USA is also a game breaker. It must be fixed because the games balancing would prove impossible. The game must be Historical, not full of nitpicking rules that destroy play balance.

It’s pretty clear from that post that you were suggesting that USA entering automatically after X turns is a good idea. It’s fascinating how you show your system (which allows for variable entry) only AFTER I post my point about how a russian revolution would be insane if it happened on turn X no matter what since Germany would only need to hold the line for long enough for it to happen.

@Imperious:

I am not arguing against your ideas, you are arguing against mine. Get it straight. I didn’t first quote you, you quoted me.

So the fact that I first disagreed with your fixed entry means that you never actually made posts like this that argued against my point?

“Like Global 40, you can’t have variable entry”

The point is that you actually do agree that the revolution is important to not have happen automatically on turn X, you just can’t be an adult (man or woman, I’ve never met you) who can admit it.

@Imperious:

By the way, what happens with the German naval mutiny if they have sunk every british ship and have the seas completely dominated, and are close to winning the war? How does a mutiny in such a scenario make sense?

The game would be over already ( CP victory) if that happened. And the Germans would still be exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies for four years of fighting.

If they did this in say 1916 and game still continued, on the fixed event for Mutiny, Germany would still be exhausted. Only an early victory cuts out the event, if the game lasts till 1918, they get naval mutiny.

Wait, the game is over already when in my scenario listed I clearly state that they are close to winning the war? No wonder you argue against things I don’t say, it’s now 100% clear that you don’t actually read the posts you respond to!

The British fought for four years. Why was ther not a major mutiny of their sailors. Were they not exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies?

@Imperious:

Provocation Point System:

Russian Example:

Russian Revolution Occurs if at the start of any russian turn the Provocation Point Total is equal to or greater than 100 (for example)
Add 2 each time a CP conquers an Originally russian Territory (can be multiple times for one territory)
Add 1 each time a CP conquers a CP territory that was under Russian control at the time of its capture (Can be multiple times for one territory
Add 5 for each originally Russian IC that is captured by a CP. (Only once per IC)
Add 10 EACH TIME an originally Russian city is captured by a CP.
Add 3 each time russia attacks a territory with a land unit but does NOT capture that territory from that attack.
SUBTRACT 1 each time Russia captures an Originally CP territory
SUBTRACT 2 each time Russia captures an originally Russian territory that was under CP control.

This point system means you got to count things from the start and keep track, the games system only allows the roll on turn 10 when you begin to count to get modifiers. This makes our system more easy and KISS, which is what AA is in terms of design. Point system will also allow possible early entry before turn 10 if you get that 100.

So? So what if it happens before turn 10? Why is turn 10 NECESSARY for it to be able to start to happen? Because it fits your timeline? Because that is automatally doom to the balance of the game if it happens before??

So now your argument is that your version is simpler. What does that have to do with balance anymore?<waits patiently=“” for=“” a=“” futile=“” attempt=“” at=“” showing=“” my=“” idea’s=“” imbalance=“” using=“” arguments=“” based=“” on=“” half-reading=“” posts=“” and=“” intentionally=“” being=“” unfair=“”></waits>

WHERE did I say that USA and USSR had, have, or should have the ability to attack at any time in ANY version, 1940 or WWI? Where did I say that (other than in your mind)? Please stick to writing your own posts and stop writing mine in your own head and then responding to those fantasy posts.

What you did say is Global 40 has variable entry, but it does not.

By the way, what turn does USA enter the war in Global 1940? What turn does Russia enter the war? You mean it’s not the same turn every game. You mean it VARIES? But it’s still not variable entry eh?

It is FIXED UNLESS THE AXIS start it early. Those allies don’t have the opportunity to start early. One side determines their fate, not both. It is not complicated.

Take a step back. Or four. If you had read my posts you would have seen that when I was talking about the provocation points, I was referring to their potential in a WWI game. Nowhere did I say that anyone should be able to declare war at anytime.

You advocate a point system were early entry is possible, and i advocate a fixed turn where collapse is only possible STARTING ON THAT TURN.  I try to explain this but you don’t get it.

The simple FACT of the matter is that Global is a game where big events, such as beginnings of hostilities between powers, happen in DIFFERENT turns each game. And is that automatically “busted”?

NO BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ALLOW THOSE ALLIES TO ATTACK GERMANY EARLY.  The only way for that to happen is if Germany feels it is advantageous to attack them early. Both sides do not have a choice.

Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 06:22:43 pm
IN the Great War example, we set the fixed date where you can start rolling for collapse. If the game didn’t have that, it also would be busted.

Prove it. Seriously, you say that, but where is any evidence? Why is a system that requires multiple turns of cumulative events automatically “busted”?

You would need to be at the table during playtesting and that has already occurred. When you buy the game you can do whatever you want.

Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 06:22:43 pm
I have no idea why this is complicated. It has a fixed minimum threshold where you start rolling and the modifiers are dependent on control by central powers of specific areas. If the Russian player does really well, they still need this fixed rule for entry.

That is not fixed like you were suggesting earlier. That is variable. What turn does the revolution happen? It depends. Therefore variable. I have no idea why this is so complicated.

SIGH–- it does not begin before turn 10. You cant even roll before that turn. Jesus.

Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 06:22:43 pm
It does not happen BEFORE TURN X. That is why i say the turn is fixed.

You must be a politician since you backtrack like that:

Quote from: Imperious Leader on December 11, 2012, 05:06:16 pm
Quote
Britain joins after an attack on any neutral (only the CPs can ever attack neutrals!)

USA really needs a chart to track its attitude to war; its entry certainly shouldn’t be automatic after X turns.

The game would be ruined since the Central powers would avoid UK the entire game, A variable entry USA is also a game breaker. It must be fixed because the games balancing would prove impossible. The game must be Historical, not full of nitpicking rules that destroy play balance.

In that post it’s pretty clear from that post that you were suggesting that USA entering after X turns is a good idea. It’s fascinating how you show your system (which allows for variable entry) only AFTER I post my point about how a russian revolution would be insane if it happened on turn X no matter what since Germany would only need to hold the line for long enough for it to happen.

Quote from: Imperious Leader on Today at 06:22:43 pm
I am not arguing against your ideas, you are arguing against mine. Get it straight. I didn’t first quote you, you quoted me.

So the fact that I first disagreed with your fixed entry means that you never actually made posts like this that argued against my point?

“Like Global 40, you can’t have variable entry”

The point is that you actually do agree that the revolution is important to not have happen automatically on turn X, you just can’t be an adult (man or woman, I’ve never met you) who can admit it.

Your point is a entry at any time. Mine is that it can only start on a fixed turn in order to keep balance. Your “rebuttal” is that Global has variable turn entry, mine is that is not the case: USSR and USA cannot attack Axis Europe before their turns on their own accord. You seem to skip that every-time. I find it hilarious!

Wait, the game is over already when in my scenario listed I clearly state that they are close to winning the war? No wonder you argue against things I don’t say, it’s now 100% clear that you don’t actually read the posts you respond to!

The British fought for four years. Why was ther not a major mutiny of their sailors. Were they not exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies?

Germany mostly alone fought against all the allies. UK on the other hand had capable allies. France was close to manpower collapse, Russia was getting there.

@Imperious:

WHERE did I say that USA and USSR had, have, or should have the ability to attack at any time in ANY version, 1940 or WWI? Where did I say that (other than in your mind)? Please stick to writing your own posts and stop writing mine in your own head and then responding to those fantasy posts.

What you did say is Global 40 has variable entry, but it does not.

Really? What turn does USA go to war against the axis?  What turn does Japan go to war against UK? What turn does Germany go to war against  Russia?

@Imperious:

Wait, the game is over already when in my scenario listed I clearly state that they are close to winning the war? No wonder you argue against things I don’t say, it’s now 100% clear that you don’t actually read the posts you respond to!

The British fought for four years. Why was ther not a major mutiny of their sailors. Were they not exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies?

Germany mostly alone fought against all the allies. UK on the other hand had capable allies. France was close to manpower collapse, Russia was getting there.

The point was that the reasons you gave for Germany to have mutiny are difficulites many other nations faced. Why are they not facing the same potential for mutiny?

“And the Germans would still be exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies for four years of fighting.”

Where then are the mechanics for other mutinies for other countries?

So? So what if it happens before turn 10? Why is turn 10 NECESSARY for it to be able to start to happen? Because it fits your timeline? Because that is automatically doom to the balance of the game if it happens before??

Because Historically that’s when it happens in game turns. Secondly, to allow it to happen on say turn 6 would make the game too easy for central powers to win. The setup and economics are based on balance of many factors including a player possibly leaving the game early would prove impossible. At least the playtest when this was considered didn’t make it balanced.

Just do whatever you want when you buy the game, i really don’t give a damm.

So now your argument is that your version is simpler. What does that have to do with balance anymore?<waits patiently=“” for=“” a=“” futile=“” attempt=“” at=“” showing=“” my=“” idea’s=“” imbalance=“” using=“” arguments=“” based=“” on=“” half-reading=“” posts=“” and=“” intentionally=“” being=“” unfair=“”></waits>

it is:

1. simpler
2. easier to remember
3. balanced
4. Historical
5. more fun
6. KISS
7. practical

use your point system, count all the dead units, deduct, take TT’s back and forth, deduct, etc whatever your hearts content my friend.

Really? What turn does USA go to war against the axis? � What turn does Japan go to war against UK? What turn does Germany go to war against � Russia?

USA cant attack Germany before turn 4
Russia cant attack Germany before turn 3

They are the only nations that are totally neutral, so they are restricted unless the AXIS attack early, but it does not go both ways. They are restricted.

Thats my final answer.

The point was that the reasons you gave for Germany to have mutiny are difficulites many other nations faced. Why are they not facing the same potential for mutiny?

Because they didn’t have a similar mutiny to the extent of which Germany faced this. The allies were basically fighting like a group, against Germany. Ottomans and Austro-Hungary were weak empires and could barley hold their own. It was Germany who faced everything.

“And the Germans would still be exhausted in terms of manpower and supplying food and supplies for four years of fighting.”

Where then are the mechanics for other mutinies for other countries?

Go add them. Add anything you want make your own game spend your own money. Enjoy life. Stop arguing about nonsense.

You may need a rabies shot soon. I find these posts amusing actually. Thanks for the fun!