yes i read the rulebook it’s pretty sparse when it comes to neutrals.
“When a neutral territory is invaded, its standing army units are immediately placed in it. Use any nationality’s infantry units to represent this neutral force. In each case, appoint one of the players on the opposite side to control the neutral’s units. This player places the neutral units on the board and manages them when they conduct combat. Don’t mix or confuse the neutral units with the units of another power, including the power managing the neutral’s pieces on the board.”
This is needlessly detailed (no offense, Krieg). It’s just saying that defending neutral armies stay neutral. I mean, what does it matter who removes the neutral infantry as they get killed? There are no decisions to make - no casualty choices.
“Capturing an unfriendly neutral gives the capturing player the IPC income of the territory. The invading power places its national control marker on the territory, and its national production level is adjusted upward by the value of the captured territory.”
Note that if you fail to capture it, then obviously you don’t control it, so you don’t get the income.
“If the attack upon the neutral territory is unsuccessful (the territory is not captured), it’s no longer considered neutral and becomes part of the alliance opposing the power that attacked it. For example, if Germany attacked Yugoslavia but failed to capture it, after the attack Yugoslavia would join the Allies. Any remaining defending units stay in the territory, but can’t move. The territory remains uncontrolled, but units from the side it’s now allied with can move into it and take control of it and its remaining units in the same way as if it were a friendly neutral.”
Without specifically saying it, this is saying that you can land aircraft in the territory (it’s friendly to your side now) but that of course does not give you control. Also, if you did get a land unit into it, then the neutral infantry would join the power that took control.
I see I mis-spoke before when I said the country can’t be “activated”, because it can. I’ll clear that up now.
yes i read the rulebook it’s pretty sparse when it comes to neutrals.
But it answers most of your questions! :-)
But when Spain now becomes allied to the other side, can’t the side that didn’t attack it move in and activate it or any other neutral and then move the infantry around just like activating any other friendly power?
Now I’m confused?
yes, i agree it answers most of my questions. what i was confused about what what you were saying before. so based on the rules explanation, if germany attacked spain but did not conquer it, spain becomes a friendly neutral upon which you are saying allied aircraft can land. apparently friendly neutral is different from pro-allied neutral? because the allies cannot land in pro-allied neutrals until the allies have entered the neutral with a land unit on a previous turn and hold the territory at the start of the turn of the power who is landing air in the territory… man this is mashing my brain something fierce…
i question if it is clear that aircraft can land in the territory until it is entered by allied land units. let me go back to see what krieg said again…
OK, so on G1 Germany invades Yugoslavia.
Say they hit and run, leaving 1 surviving infantry in Yugoslavia.
Before the noncombat movement phase, Yugoslavia is no longer neutral. It is an alliied territory, but not controlled by any of the allies. Germany could fly aircraft over Yugoslavia on G1 non-combat movement (doesn’t help them, but that’s not the point. The point is, they can)
Yugoslavia is now considered a part of the Allies (but no one gets its income). It’s not neutral anymore, so anyone can fly over it just as you fly over any Axis or Ally’s territory during normal game play.
On UK1, the UK COULD land aircraft in Yugoslavia. It is now friendly to the allies.
As long as Yugoslavia is not conquered by an Axis power, an Allied power could activate it by getting a ground unit there. They would then convert the surviving infantry to their own infantry, take control of the territory, increasing IPC income by 2 for that Allied power.
But when Spain now becomes allied to the other side, can’t the side that didn’t attack it move in and activate it or any other neutral and then move the infantry around just like activating any other friendly power?
YES, you’re right. I’m sorry, I mis-spoke once before
Now I’m confused?
I mis-spoke when I said it couldn’t be “activated”. See the red correction below, please.
Kcdzim is correct.
You don’t “declare war” on neutral territories - you simply attack them.� Attacking a neutral territory immediately converts that territory to the opposite alliance.� All of the other neutral territories remain neutral (but become unfriendly to you), and you still can’t fly over them as long as they remain so.
wait. here is what i mean.�� if germany attacked spain and didn’t conquer it, can RUSSIA land aircraft there on it’s immediately following turn?
Yes, as Spain is now part of the Allies.
so based on this, there is a difference between a true neutral that has been attacked by the axis and the rest of the true neutrals. the one directly attacked immediately can be landed in by allied planes (no land unit taking and subsequent turn required). the rest of the true neutrals then become pro-allied neutrals immediately (which means air cannot land in them until they are activated by land units, and even then, not on the turn on which they were activated).
now, the final piece to the puzzle… a territory that starts the game pro allied (can we say yugo), that the axis attacks with a hit and run and leaves say, 4 infantry remaining. can the allies now land planes directly onto yugo? or is this something that is specific only to a TRUE neutral that has been attacked but not conquered?
OK, so on G1 Germany invades Yugoslavia.
Say they hit and run, leaving 1 surviving infantry in Yugoslavia.
Before the noncombat movement phase, Yugoslavia is no longer neutral. It is an alliied territory, but not controlled by any of the allies. Germany could fly aircraft over Yugoslavia on G1 non-combat movement (doesn’t help them, but that’s not the point. The point is, they can)Yugoslavia is now considered a part of the Allies (but no one gets its income). It’s not neutral anymore, so anyone can fly over it just as you fly over any Axis or Ally’s territory during normal game play.
On UK1, the UK COULD land aircraft in Yugoslavia. It is now friendly to the allies.
As long as Yugoslavia is not conquered by an Axis power, an Allied power could activate it by getting a ground unit there. They would then convert the surviving infantry to their own infantry, take control of the territory, increasing IPC income by 2 for that Allied power.
ah as i was writing the question you were answering it… :lol:
so if the allies leave yugo infantry alive after a hit and run, the brits could actually send in a transport, land on yugo, activate the infantry, AND land aircraft in the territory. INTERESTING.
i question if it is clear that aircraft can land in the territory until it is entered by allied land units.� let me go back to see what krieg said again…
Yes, it can, and you’re right with your previous paragraph.
The rules say “The territory remains uncontrolled, but units from the side it’s now allied with can move into it and take control of it”
If those units are LAND units, you take control of it. �But “units” means ANY unit, as Krieghund has repeatedly and adamantly explained to us before. �It’s just if you move a LAND unit in, then you take control. �But you can land air there like the UK and ANZ can land air on Dutch territories.
You’re right, friendly neutral is not the same as allied neutral.
An attacked neutral is a friendly neutral and is now a friendly territory, that none of the controllable powers control.
Like Yugoslavia is its own nation now, with no income or production capability. �It’s independent, but is now a part of the Alliance once it’s attacked.
so if the allies leave yugo infantry alive after a hit and run, the brits could actually send in a transport, land on yugo, activate the infantry, AND land aircraft in the territory. INTERESTING.
YES
OK, so on G1 Germany invades Yugoslavia.
Say they hit and run, leaving 1 surviving infantry in Yugoslavia.
Before the noncombat movement phase, Yugoslavia is no longer neutral. �It is an alliied territory, but not controlled by any of the allies. �Germany could fly aircraft over Yugoslavia on G1 non-combat movement (doesn’t help them, but that’s not the point. �The point is, they can)Yugoslavia is now considered a part of the Allies (but no one gets its income). �It’s not neutral anymore, so anyone can fly over it just as you fly over any Axis or Ally’s territory during normal game play.
On UK1, the UK COULD land aircraft in Yugoslavia. �It is now friendly to the allies.
As long as Yugoslavia is not conquered by an Axis power, an Allied power could activate it by getting a ground unit there. �They would then convert the surviving infantry to their own infantry, take control of the territory, increasing IPC income by 2 for that Allied power.ah as i was writing the question you were answering it…� :lol:
so if the allies leave yugo infantry alive after a hit and run, the brits could actually send in a transport, land on yugo, activate the infantry, AND land aircraft in the territory.� INTERESTING.
you know what, i just noticed players can modify or delete posts from this FAQ… why is that? you wouldn’t want someone to come in and start deleting valuable posts! :-o
An attacked neutral is a friendly neutral and is now a friendly territory, that none of the controllable powers control.
Once it’s attacked, it’s not neutral at all. It is allied with the side opposite the side that attacked it. This is important, because the restrictions of a neutral territory no longer apply to it.
here is part of why i’m confused, the rules are not precise in their wording on this point…
“If the attack upon the neutral territory is unsuccessful (the territory is not captured), it’s no longer considered neutral and becomes part of the alliance opposing the power that attacked it. For example, if Germany attacked Yugoslavia but failed to capture it, after the attack Yugoslavia would join the Allies. Any remaining defending units stay in the territory, but can’t move. The territory remains uncontrolled, but units from the side it’s now allied with can move into it and take control of it and its remaining units in the same way as if it were a friendly neutral.”
this is a tricky one… i THOUGHT “friendly neutral” in this sentence should actually read “pro-allied or pro-axis neutral”. BUT friendly neutral is actually a special status, which means any neutral that has been attacked but not conquered… so to me the wording is misleading. it says “in the same way as if it were a friendly neutral” when it should say, it now BECOMES a friendly neutral, which means x, y, and z…
RIGHT???
this is a tricky one… i THOUGHT “friendly neutral” in this sentence should actually read “pro-allied or pro-axis neutral”.
Yes, that’s what it means. That’s what a friendly neutral is, if you’re on the side that it’s “pro”.
BUT friendly neutral is actually a special status, which means any neutral that has been attacked but not conquered…
No, it isn’t. See my last post.
An attacked neutral is a friendly neutral and is now a friendly territory, that none of the controllable powers control.
Once it’s attacked, it’s not neutral at all.� It is allied with the side opposite the side that attacked it.� This is important, because the restrictions of a neutral territory no longer apply to it.
based on this, the word neutral would no longer apply to yugo after a german hit and run. it would have to have a different term than “friendly neutral”… so i think my understanding is correct that friendly neutral is the same as pro-axis or pro-allied neutral. after ANY neutral is attacked, it takes on the status of friendly territory? perhaps or maybe a better term, which means it is now joined with one side for all intents and purposes except for income and control of it’s standing army (if any remains). that standing army will be activated by whichever friendly power enters it first with a land unit, and that power will then also receive the territory income.
Exactly.
maybe we need to call them FRIENDLY, but previously neutral, territories. FBPN
so any attacked neutral if not conquered, becomes a FBPN territory. if a true neutral (or more than one) is/are attacked for the first time, the ones actually attacked become FBPN territories if not conquered. all other true neutral territories become friendly neutrals at that moment.
