Thank you Panther! That worked. :)
TripleA 1.5.0.0 and US/Chinese turn
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China and the British are on the same side, so there is no reason for a battle to occur….
here is what you probably want for the xml, which I think is what you have above (thought i did not double check):
<step name=“chinesePurchase” delegate=“purchaseNoPU” player=“Chinese”><step name=“chineseCombatMove” delegate=“move” player=“Chinese”><step name=“chineseBattle” delegate=“battle” player=“Chinese”><step name=“chineseNonCombatMove” delegate=“move” player=“Chinese” display=“Non Combat Move”><step name=“chinesePlace” delegate=“place” player=“Chinese”><step name=“chineseEndTurn” delegate=“endTurnNoPU” player=“Chinese”><step name=“americanTech” delegate=“tech” player=“Americans”><step name=“americanTechActivation” delegate=“tech_activation” player=“Americans”><step name=“americanPurchase” delegate=“purchase” player=“Americans”><step name=“americanCombatMove” delegate=“move” player=“Americans”><step name=“americanBattle” delegate=“battle” player=“Americans”><step name=“americanNonCombatMove” delegate=“move” player=“Americans” display=“Non Combat Move”><step name=“americanPlace” delegate=“place” player=“Americans”><step name=“americanEndTurn” delegate=“endTurn” player=“Americans”>thx,
veqryn</step></step></step></step></step></step></step></step></step></step></step></step></step></step> -
China and the British are on the same side, so there is no reason for a battle to occur….
Ouch….I was so focussed on testing that I did not even care about that.
@Veqryn:here is what you probably want for the xml, which I think is what you have above (thought i did not double check):
…Thank you, it is the same.
I will do some more tests this evening.
:-) -
Before I continue testing I have got - out of curiosity - another question.
In the original XML the order of phases is:
…
So this means that the American NCM occurs before the Chinese Battle.
According to the rulesThe U.S. player must complete the Combat Move and Conduct Combat phases for Chinese forces before beginning the Combat Move phase for U.S. forces, or vice versa.
Following this the NCM of China and USA take place after the battles of both countries.
This is of practical relevance:
Following the rules an American unit could (in NCM) enter a territory the Chinese have captured/liberated just before (or vice versa of course).
If -as indicated in the XML - America does it’s NCM before the chinese battle, an American unit cannot enter this territory in NCM,
because at this moment it is hostile.So for meeting the rules the XML should contain
…
Am I right? Or are the rules (especially the China rules including battling and NCM) in fact hard coded in any other part of the program?
I am very interested in this question because it is relevant for my tries to seperate American from Chinese phases.Either it is: “For the purpose of having accurate Chinese and American turn posts forget about the exact rules.”
or: “Forget about the exact turn posts and stick to the rules.” (that would include the NCMs happening after both battles, which is only a very small exchange of lines in the game-xml).Maybe it is all a bit theoretical. But I really like TripleA v. 1.5 and just am balancing reasons about accurate rules on the one hand and (maybe) gameplay on the other hand.
Thank you :-)
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what about:
<step name=“americanCombatMove” delegate=“move” player=“Americans”><step name=“americanBattle” delegate=“battle” player=“Americans”><step name=“chineseCombatMove” delegate=“move” player=“Chinese”><step name=“chineseBattle” delegate=“battle” player=“Chinese”><step name=“chineseNonCombatMove” delegate=“move” player=“Chinese” display=“Non Combat Move”><step name=“chinesePlace” delegate=“place” player=“Chinese”><step name=“chineseEndTurn” delegate=“endTurnNoPU” player=“Chinese”><step name=“americanNonCombatMove” delegate=“move” player=“Americans” display=“Non Combat Move”><step name=“americanPlace” delegate=“place” player=“Americans”><step name=“americanEndTurn” delegate=“endTurn” player=“Americans”>would that meet the rules?
if that meets the rules, i would go with that</step></step></step></step></step></step></step></step></step></step>
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Looks fine at first glance.
But I experienced a bug when testing.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=26522.msg927641#msg927641
I’m going to test again to see if I can reproduce that.
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The bug remains.
The US bomber moved four steps to SZ 13 and destroys the Transporter.
In NCM it should land in Gib.After the Chinese sequence - when it comes to US NCM, the Bomber is away.
Game history says it was destroyed because it could not land.I can’t say if this is realted to the changes in the sequence.
If not this sequence is a well balanced compromise between rules and turn post information.
The most important thing here is that the NCM both happen after both nations’ battles.It would be even better to embed the US lines in the chinese lines as I think.
I am going to try this next. -
I found out what causes the bomber issue:
For any reason the American bomber in SZ 13 is destroyed in the Chinese NCM.
That means that the program considers that bomber as Chinese.
Therefore it cannot land and is destroyed.That is strange.
See
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=26522.msg927675#msg927675 -
This is definitely caused by the changed sequence. It happens when after the US battle the Chinese NCM occurs before the US NCM. This results in the bomber becoming Chinese.
I don’t know how this can be corrected. -
ah, ya, i know why that is happening
basically, you are not supposed to have turns interspersed, or they may be weird effects
essentially, the game keeps track of which territories are conquered for a turn, but it doesn’t do so on a per player basis,
in addition, the game validates where units can land at the end of noncombat phases, unless you have purchased a carrier and are validating fighter, etc etc, complex stuff
anyway, i suggest you either have the Chinese and American turns COMPLETELY separate from each other
OR you leave the game xml as it currently is (since it works well already)
I honestly do not think this affects the game at all, because China gets completely destroyed in the first 2 turns anyway.
In 3 years of people playing this and testing it (AA50 is the most popular game on triplea, and there are at least 20-60 games of it played every day), noone has ever noticed this “bug” or reported it. So that means it does not affect any ‘real’ games.
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ah, ya, i know why that is happening
basically, you are not supposed to have turns interspersed, or they may be weird effects
essentially, the game keeps track of which territories are conquered for a turn, but it doesn’t do so on a per player basis,
in addition, the game validates where units can land at the end of noncombat phases, unless you have purchased a carrier and are validating fighter, etc etc, complex stuff
OK, I understand. So this is how TripleA is coded - and this is not an issue of the Game-XML itself.
anyway, i suggest you either have the Chinese and American turns COMPLETELY separate from each other
OR you leave the game xml as it currently is (since it works well already)
I honestly do not think this affects the game at all, because China gets completely destroyed in the first 2 turns anyway.
In 3 years of people playing this and testing it (AA50 is the most popular game on triplea, and there are at least 20-60 games of it played every day), noone has ever noticed this “bug” or reported it. So that means it does not affect any ‘real’ games.
Yes, I agree. Personally I would tend towards seperating China from America completely as is is much more comfortable and clearly arranged.
( see for example http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=26522.msg927681#msg927681 ).Either this or leaving the XML as it is - of course - is not rules-compliant. But as you pointed out this does not really matter in the games that are played.
And - players can use the Edit Mode to correct or change some issues. So all in all for PBF-Purposes I would vote for transparent information in the turn posts.But - I think that in a game the players have to use the same XML, am I right? Or is it possible that for example the Axis player plays with the downloaded XML as it is and the Allies player uses a modified game-XML in which turns for China and America are separated?
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games always use the hosts’ xml
and after the game starts, the xml you started is in the game data (memory), so you do not even need the xml after the game has startedi think in the future, i will move the chinese and american turns to be separate
what is better, China then America,
or America then China? -
games always use the hosts’ xml
and after the game starts, the xml you started is in the game data (memory), so you do not even need the xml after the game has startedAh ok. The player who moves first ist host then?
i think in the future, i will move the chinese and american turns to be separate
what is better, China then America,
or America then China?I would prefer China then America.
Thanks :-)
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the player who hosts the game on their computer is the host
the people who connect to his computer are the clientsthe host doesn’t even need to play…. he could be hosting for other people as a service
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Yes, true for hosted games.
But when playing by forum - for example here in the “Play Boardgames”-section, no one connects to a host.
Both people use their individual TripleA containing the game-xml and exchange only savegames after each turn via the forum.
So in this case they must be sure to use the same game-xml, right?.
Or is it - in forum games - possible that for example the Axis player plays with the “standard game xml as of Map Version 1.4” and the Allies player uses a “modified Version 1.4-game-xml” in which turns for China and America are separated? -
the xml gets parsed into the game data object
the game data object is saved in the savegame
once the game has started, the xml is no longer used at all
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ok, thanks :-)
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These are the official rules.
“China and its units are controlled by the U.S. player, but for game purposes it is considered a separate power and its
resources cannot be mixed. The U.S. player takes China’s turn at the same time as the U.S. turn but Chinese unit combat and
movement are done separately from the U.S. forces. The U.S. player must complete the Combat Move and Conduct Combat
phases for Chinese forces before beginning the Combat Move phase for U.S. forces, or vice versa.”Now TripleA works fine following the rules. Actually, it should be nicer if the player could choose which nation starts.
The problem with the forum is not vital. It is more important to follow the rules and turns cannot become separate. Don’t you agree? -
I agree in principle, but in practice things are more difficult…
Feel free to download the source code and contribute your time rewriting the engine to cover this very minor point.
We are open source, and rely on the contributions of people who are working for free.I prefer to spend my time (unpaid) trying to get major functions and features working, like for Global 1940.
A minor technicality that is only hypothetical, and never affected a single “real” game, is so far down on the TODO list, that I doubt it will ever get done. (unless of course, someone besides me decides to help)
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These are the official rules.
…
Now TripleA works fine following the rules.No it does not. Just follow this thread and you will read that in the map-XML the sequence of actions is not rules-compliant (Chinese Battle is after US NCM).
Veqryn explained the reasons behind that.
The approach of seperating China from USA is to be more accurate in sight of information in the posts when PBF. -
@P@nther:
i think in the future, i will move the chinese and american turns to be separate
what is better, China then America,
or America then China?I would prefer China then America.
Thanks :-)
Veqryn, I have to correct myself.
It has to be America before China, otherwise China would not be able to place its units in a territory that was liberated by USA before.
If it ever comes to an update.
I could do this, if it helps….
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