I have to agree with Grasshopper’s ideas. Purchasing multiple carriers for the US will probably turn out very good for the Allies as the game goes along, especially if you are able to keep them filled with planes. ROCmonster, you are right, carriers are mostly a defensive platform. However, Grasshopper could be wanting that as well. Remember earlier he mentioned getting into a war of attrition with Japan in big naval slugging matches. If the Japanese decide to attack his carriers, they may sink them but they are going to lose ships and/or planes to do so. Eventually, the Japanese navy is going to dwindle and the US Navy will still be strong and get stronger. It’s only a matter of time.
If the Japanese decide to keep away from the US carriers, then continued US Naval purchases will keep the US fleet growing bigger and bigger. Eventually, it will outmatch what Japan can build. Plus, with India and ANZAC’s meddling around and the US support, I really don’t think the DEI and Calcutta will be that easy to take down and keep. Therefore, Japan will not be making as much money as you said earlier and will not be able to match USA in naval builds.
Of course, alot of this depends on how well UK and Russia are able to hold off Germany and Italy in Europe. Too much time spent by US on Japan may mean an Axis victory over there.
One thing I would mention to Grasshopper if you haven’t already considered this: along with the carriers you should also have plenty of destroyers. If Japan gets a bunch of subs and your carriers don’t have destroyer escorts, then the planes on them are useless and the carriers are just big fat targets.
US Turn #5
5 Submarines
5 Destroyers
for the Pacific
well said by both players. The problem I have with attrition battles is that when I go to war with US I will have 4 carriers and 2 BB’s as japan. After a battle I will have 6 units that can take a hit and be repaired. This makes attrition battles not a good idea in my oppinion. I’d like to wait until I have overwhelming advantage in taking and holding phillipines, or attacking japans fleet.
well said by both players. The problem I have with attrition battles is that when I go to war with US I will have 4 carriers and 2 BB’s as japan. After a battle I will have 6 units that can take a hit and be repaired. This makes attrition battles not a good idea in my oppinion. I’d like to wait until I have overwhelming advantage in taking and holding phillipines, or attacking japans fleet.
Stacking in Hawaii waiting to eventually have a large enough navy to hit Japan, never works IMO. By the time you are happy with the size of your American fleet, Japan fleet is off the coast of India, and America is way out of position. All that is left, is to play cat and mouse all game or try to plan an invasion of Tokyo against his 25+ Infantry and 6 Kamakaze assaults. By that time, Japan will have Calcutta and their extra income and the Brits and Australians are cursing all Americans while eating rice in POW camps. Attrition always favors the US, they will always have more to spend than Japan.
I never said stack in pearl. I like stacking in queensland. Think about it. IF you attack and loose which you should because you are building carriers non attacking units. Japan will take carriers and battleships as final hits. They will have 6 units left over that are two hits once again… Attrition battles aren’t the way to go. They never were and never will be when the opponet has multiple 2 hit units.
I never said stack in pearl. I like stacking in queensland. Think about it. IF you attack and loose which you should because you are building carriers non attacking units. Japan will take carriers and battleships as final hits. They will have 6 units left over that are two hits once again… Attrition battles aren’t the way to go. They never were and never will be when the opponet has multiple 2 hit units.
The carriers themselves won’t attack, just the planes on them which ARE attacking units. The carriers stay back and he keeps flying replacement planes over to fill them back up. Much easier and cheaper to keep replacing fighters and/or tac bombers than to replace both carriers and planes. Plus, those Jap carriers and battleships have to get back to a friendly naval base to repair that first hit then go back out to do battle. In that time the US could have more reinforcements available.
I will keep my jappanese fleet in phillipines for as long as possible. After a battle I just heal my carriers and BB’s up and you can continue to attack with US all day, but it will take forever doing thsi strategy.
I will keep my jappanese fleet in phillipines for as long as possible. After a battle I just heal my carriers and BB’s up and you can continue to attack with US all day, but it will take forever doing thsi strategy.
If the Philippines is the stage on which we battle all day, than Japan can’t spread and get the income you talk of, because they will be in a locked battle of give and take, and as America, I don’t care if my fleet is sunk, but I believe you might.
This is the thread I was taking about, back from the dead to shed some light on things.
I’d love to show you what I am talking about grasshopper. Japan is making in the 60’s the whole game starting at the end of Japan T3. Until US takes and holds phillipines and Japan looses all the dutch islands. In the game I am playing against myself right now Japan is about to loose all the dutch islands for good and be down in the 50’s and then possibly even 40’s. Still can’t take phillipines. I just did the math even if the americans get good rolls in low luck Japan still walks out with all 5 carriers and 2 BB’s plus some planes
I’d love to show you what I am talking about grasshopper. Japan is making in the 60’s the whole game starting at the end of Japan T3. Until US takes and holds phillipines and Japan looses all the dutch islands. In the game I am playing against myself right now Japan is about to loose all the dutch islands for good and be down in the 50’s and then possibly even 40’s. Still can’t take phillipines. I just did the math even if the americans get good rolls in low luck Japan still walks out with all 5 carriers and 2 BB’s plus some planes
The only way you can make $60+ even by the end of J2 let alone the whole game, is if your declare war on the Pacific allies and in doing so, awake the giant. Cha Ching $.
By the end of J3 is when Japan will be making 60+. When playing myself Japan never made above 68, and last turn Japan made 60 even. Next turn Japan is expected to make around 68, but that is the last time and then Japan is going to be down to the 50’s and even lower.
By the end of J3 is when Japan will be making 60+. When playing myself Japan never made above 68, and last turn Japan made 60 even. Next turn Japan is expected to make around 68, but that is the last time and then Japan is going to be down to the 50’s and even lower.
Original =$26
Peace NO =$10 (another reason why you can’t make $60+ by J3)
New territories captured =$? (can you list them for me?)
Sure no problem. 6 chinese territories (this is minimun as first 2 rounds you are facing China alone). kwangtung +3, french indochina+2, shan state +1, phillipines, Java, borneo, celebes, sumatra+17 all together. So that’s 55 in territories +5 for No’s This is also the minimum grasshopper. I am not taking into account possible russian territories and more chinese territories or even taking malaya on t3.
Sure no problem. 6 chinese territories (this is minimun as first 2 rounds you are facing China alone). kwangtung +3, french indochina+2, shan state +1, phillipines, Java, borneo, celebes, sumatra+17 all together. So that’s 55 in territories +5 for No’s This is also the minimum grasshopper. I am not taking into account possible russian territories and more chinese territories or even taking malaya on t3.
That would mean that your entire fleet is spread out over many different sea zones, in order to take all those islands in J3 (before J3 takes away your peace NO and gives the US $20+ a round or two earlier). So how can you protect 4 or more small fleets or lone transports scattered over 4 or more sea zones which happen to be within range of my entire US fleet in zone #54 and ANZAC fighters and ships in zone#56 or 57? How can you do all this and still keep the Philippines until round 7?..… never mind, don’t answer any more of my questions. I will watch your videos and find out for myself.
I’ll have to put up my video to show you, but bassically I had only 2 large fleets. One fleet had a carrier cruiser in it and the other was my huge fleet in phillipines. US couldn’t attack this fleet even with a joint attack with anzac help. I blocked with 2 destroyers. I ended up loosing 2 transports with Japan on anzac and US T3.
Zombie thread back from the dead . . . . too bad roc’s doesn’t seem to have logged in in over a month. Did he ever post that video or detail what he was doing w/Japan? :evil:
YG, I thought this was an interesting strategy for USA. How do you feel about this strategy now? The rules have changed some and I’m assuming you’ve played more then the 2 games you had when you originally wrote this out. Did japan ever do anything to throw this off. Is UK able to do enough to stop/slow down Italy/Germany while US is concentrating in the pacific?
@seththenewb:
Zombie thread back from the dead . . . . too bad roc’s doesn’t seem to have logged in in over a month. Did he ever post that video or detail what he was doing w/Japan? :evil:
YG, I thought this was an interesting strategy for USA. How do you feel about this strategy now? The rules have changed some and I’m assuming you’ve played more then the 2 games you had when you originally wrote this out. Did japan ever do anything to throw this off. Is UK able to do enough to stop/slow down Italy/Germany while US is concentrating in the pacific?
Good question and YES, I still use the sea zone off Queensland as a staging zone. The reason being is, the Jap fleet needs to move south weather to take India, the Dutch islands, or the Philipeenes, and when they do, the US can maneuver in all directions from there.
YG:
You ever consider an AB on DNG on A2? It puts Anzac 10 IPC Ftr purchases the rest of the game in position to help your mop up concept. Granted you can continue to funnel then into a reclaimed Flip. DNG is less exposed to Japanese purchases placed on Tokyo or in SZ6.
I think a NB works better due to the places you can reach from DNG with a NB. Pretty much anywhere from SZ19 down to SZ39 and everywhere in between. This is especially nice with Anzac spending 10 IPC / turn on a TT + Inf to keep funneling into Japanese holdings on the mainland left undefended which extends from Manchuria all the way to Calcutta. Anzac suiciding a TT but removing Japanese territories is a good trade IMO, especially in combination with your attrition strategy regarding USA and Japan.
YG:
You ever consider an AB on DNG on A2? It puts Anzac 10 IPC Ftr purchases the rest of the game in position to help your mop up concept. Granted you can continue to funnel then into a reclaimed Flip. DNG is less exposed to Japanese purchases placed on Tokyo or in SZ6.
I think a NB works better due to the places you can reach from DNG with a NB. Pretty much anywhere from SZ19 down to SZ39 and everywhere in between. This is especially nice with Anzac spending 10 IPC / turn on a TT + Inf to keep funneling into Japanese holdings on the mainland left undefended which extends from Manchuria all the way to Calcutta. Anzac suiciding a TT but removing Japanese territories is a good trade IMO, especially in combination with your attrition strategy regarding USA and Japan.
Interesting, I will have to look at my board tonight and think about that one.
