In which version is Russia stronger against the Axis, A2 or A3?

@shadowguidex:

@Cmdr:

Nice.  Do you have Italy break the ground and Germany reinforce then?  That way Germany loses nothing while Italy loses a few men to Russian pickets?

Yeah Italy does the standard can opener actions, and claims all peripheral territory that isn’t a VC. Italy also has to defend Europe along with all German purchases above those allotted to Moscow G8. Italy may or may not take Cairo…this becomes the critical fight if they failed.

The real blessing of Italy is being able to take land for German planes, allowing the Germans to reinforce heavily.  So peripheral territories should be taken by the Germans, while the main drag (E. Poland Belarus or E. Poland N. Ukraine, etc) should be Italian.  I agree on the VCs since there are complexes there.

G2 Barbarossa is the best way to get started with the war on Russia. By waiting until G4 to attack that gives them too much time to build and deploy if you go on G2 they’ll have half as many and they wont be dug in to positions to counter attack
    Make sure you get France on G1
    It almost happened the other nite….one German tank left to occupy Paris on G1

I am contemplating a G3 attack, only because it would give me time to pull the units from France (Mech/Arm) to the Russian front.  Also, each round you don’t attack Russia is another round you get 5 IPC.  Something to consider.  (Consider does not necessarily mean you should or should not agree, just something to think about.)

@Cmdr:

I am contemplating a G3 attack, only because it would give me time to pull the units from France (Mech/Arm) to the Russian front.  Also, each round you don’t attack Russia is another round you get 5 IPC.  Something to consider.  (Consider does not necessarily mean you should or should not agree, just something to think about.)

You get 5 more IPCs, but Russia gets 13 more INF.  Try both and you’ll see the difference (G2 vs. G3).  The INF/ART stay in France; the TANK/MECH which will catch up to your INF/ART on the Eastern Front - you don’t need them until Moscow anyway.

@shadowguidex:

@Cmdr:

I am contemplating a G3 attack, only because it would give me time to pull the units from France (Mech/Arm) to the Russian front.  Also, each round you don’t attack Russia is another round you get 5 IPC.  Something to consider.  (Consider does not necessarily mean you should or should not agree, just something to think about.)

You get 5 more IPCs, but Russia gets 13 more INF.  Try both and you’ll see the difference (G2 vs. G3).  The INF/ART stay in France; the TANK/MECH which will catch up to your INF/ART on the Eastern Front - you don’t need them until Moscow anyway.

How do yo come to the conclusion of 13 more infantry?  I am not saying you are incorrect, I am wondering what your rationale is.

I am thinking of a one round delay, and Japan is not delayed. (Neither is Italy.  Only Germany needs to be at peace with Russia to get the 5 IPC.)

Russia spends 37 IPCs a round, that’s 13 Infantry more than before.  Each round Russia adds a wall of bodies to their defense, so the earlier you start to kill them the less there are.

An invasion by Germany on round 2 will, most likely, take out 2 Russian IPC and those might be liberated.  So the net income for Russia is the same, but they are down, perhaps, 2 infantry.  Concur?

If you factor in a Japan 2 attack (and why not?  Russia no longer gets any benefit from a Japanese attack on Russia, so it pays to hit them as soon as possible) they might be down another 3 IPC in the far east. (Siberia, Amur, Soviet Far East.)

The two combined should reduce Russia to 33-35 IPC which would limit them to less than 12 new infantry units.  (I highly doubt a liberation attempt would be carried out on Siberia and Amur, and Soviet Far East in almost every game is out of reach of the Russians.  So I am assuming no counter attacks against Japan.)

Hitting them earlier means getting to and hitting Moscow earlier, which means Moscow has a top limit of 13 less INF than an attack the following round.

@shadowguidex:

Hitting them earlier means getting to and hitting Moscow earlier, which means Moscow has a top limit of 13 less INF than an attack the following round.

Gotcha.

Assuming the standard attack pattern on Moscow is:

Japan vs Russia
Italy vs Russia
Germany defeat Russia
?

Or do you like to keep a bunch of Japanese armor/mech to swing back around and spank China from the rear?

@shadowguidex:

G1 (Purchase 7 ART)
–--------------------
2 SUB to Canada
2 SUB to 91
6 INF, 2 ART from Southern Germany to Yugo, 1 INF from Slovakia to Yugo, retreat all to Slovakia after one round of fighting
3 INF, 1 MECH, 1 TANK, 2 ART to Normandy
4 TANK, 4 INF, 1 ART, 3 MECH, 2 TAC, 2 FTR to France
1 BB, 1 CA, 1 FTR, 1 TAC to 112
1 SUB, all other aircraft to 111
I don’t bother attacking 110 - not worth it and they have no DD there.

NCM 4 INF to Finland
NCM 1 INF to Bulgaria
NCM 9 INF to Poland

G2 (Build 10 ART, 10 INF)

Everything from front attacks Eastern Poland.
Aircraft threaten Britain
NCM everything else to Poland (except token defenders

From here on in, check the number of zones you need to move to assault Moscow on G8…build accordingly.  Once Art/Inf cannot make it, change to Tank/Mech, once they cannot switch to TAC, then on G7 build STR.  Move everything into Moscow G8.  If Russia turtles and pulls everything into Moscow, you can just capture everything…if they don’t turtle you have enough concentrated might to capture Moscow anyway, and mop up afterwards.  Ignore Leningrad.

Great Moves, but what´s going on in SZ 109?
I think it would be better to send 3 subs to SZ109 because
all of your hits go to the ships and there you can Raid UK.
The other 2 subs go to Canada as in your move. What do you think about?
In that case UK has no destroyer to attack your subs in turn 2.

@Robson:

@shadowguidex:

G1 (Purchase 7 ART)
–--------------------
2 SUB to Canada
2 SUB to 91
6 INF, 2 ART from Southern Germany to Yugo, 1 INF from Slovakia to Yugo, retreat all to Slovakia after one round of fighting
3 INF, 1 MECH, 1 TANK, 2 ART to Normandy
4 TANK, 4 INF, 1 ART, 3 MECH, 2 TAC, 2 FTR to France
1 BB, 1 CA, 1 FTR, 1 TAC to 112
1 SUB, all other aircraft to 111
I don’t bother attacking 110 - not worth it and they have no DD there.

NCM 4 INF to Finland
NCM 1 INF to Bulgaria
NCM 9 INF to Poland

G2 (Build 10 ART, 10 INF)

Everything from front attacks Eastern Poland.
Aircraft threaten Britain
NCM everything else to Poland (except token defenders

From here on in, check the number of zones you need to move to assault Moscow on G8…build accordingly.  Once Art/Inf cannot make it, change to Tank/Mech, once they cannot switch to TAC, then on G7 build STR.  Move everything into Moscow G8.  If Russia turtles and pulls everything into Moscow, you can just capture everything…if they don’t turtle you have enough concentrated might to capture Moscow anyway, and mop up afterwards.  Ignore Leningrad.

Great Moves, but what´s going on in SZ 109?
I think it would be better to send 3 subs to SZ109 because
all of your hits go to the ships and there you can Raid UK.
The other 2 subs go to Canada as in your move. What do you think about?
In that case UK has no destroyer to attack your subs in turn 2.

Hello Rob,

SeaZone109 is quite hard to attack, up to 4 fighters can scramble in that zone.

I know but with 3 subs in that zone who only hits the destroyer and the transporter it might work.
The defender must take the transporter as his last casuality so the first hit get to the destroyer so you need only one hit from 3@2. The lost subs from this battle could easily replaced in turn 2.

It’s not designed to kill the UK fleet, it’s designed to get UK chasing your subs al over the map, make them buy Destroyers, diffuse their fleet, and spread out. The longer you can keep UK chasing subs and building destroyers the better.  Germany needs to build Artillery on G1 not subs.

@shadowguidex:

It’s not designed to kill the UK fleet, it’s designed to get UK chasing your subs al over the map, make them buy Destroyers, diffuse their fleet, and spread out. The longer you can keep UK chasing subs and building destroyers the better.  Germany needs to build Artillery on G1 not subs.

Agreed.

@Robson:

I know but with 3 subs in that zone who only hits the destroyer and the transporter it might work.
The defender must take the transporter as his last casuality so the first hit get to the destroyer so you need only one hit from 3@2. The lost subs from this battle could easily replaced in turn 2.

Try 2 Submarines, 3 Fighters, 3 Tactical Bombers and a Strategic Bomber if you want to hit this zone.  You can couple it with 2 submarines to SZ 106 and get both British Transports if that is your aim.  This was my attack when setting up Sea Lion because it stopped any of the Canadian units from getting to London in time.

Round 6, Russia surrenders.  Combined strength of the Italians, Germans and Japanese are too much.  Granted, mistakes were made with China.

@Cmdr:

Round 6, Russia surrenders.  Combined strength of the Italians, Germans and Japanese are too much.  Granted, mistakes were made with China.

If it’s ahead of schedule on G8 then Russia really screwed up their defense.  They defended Leningrad and Ukraine instead of their capital.  Leningrad almost has to be abandoned to thwart this German push.

@shadowguidex:

@Cmdr:

Round 6, Russia surrenders.  Combined strength of the Italians, Germans and Japanese are too much.  Granted, mistakes were made with China.

If it’s ahead of schedule on G8 then Russia really screwed up their defense.  They defended Leningrad and Ukraine instead of their capital.  Leningrad almost has to be abandoned to thwart this German push.

Nah, it was more of a combined thing.  Some bad dice for England allowed Africa to fall really fast, the American fleet was Powned by the German air force, and I mean really destroyed while inflicting virtually no damage on the enemy, and Japan walked right through Asia almost unopposed.  It is not normal by anymeans, but it does demonstrate that Russia is not the almighty nation others seem to think it is.  (The math just totally destroys any concept of an overly powerful Russia that can take on Italy, Germany and Japan.)

OK Schnell and Jennifer I have read your posts it sounds like to me you think the allies don’t have much of a chance am I correct in saying that? So in your opinion Russia is weaker? If by turn 8 Russia goes down so does the allies. Maybe Larry should give Russia a 12 IPC bonus or 2 tanks when Germany invades. What do you think?

@GoSanchez6:

OK Schnell and Jennifer I have read your posts it sounds like to me you think the allies don’t have much of a chance am I correct in saying that? So in your opinion Russia is weaker? If by turn 8 Russia goes down so does the allies. Maybe Larry should give Russia a 12 IPC bonus or 2 tanks when Germany invades. What do you think?

No.  Since America earns an INSANE amount of money, just because Russia falls does not mean the Axis win.  They still need that 8th city and the Americans will make them pay heavily for it.

I just played a game against myself, knowing exactly what the entire Axis plan was, and I build and move specifically to counter my own attacks.  I left UK practically unguarded and put everything they had into Africa and the Med from UK1 on.  I removed the Sealion threat entirely and mandated that Germany wasn’t allowed to build transports - this allowed UK to basically empty out Britain which is highly unlikely.  UK built for offense immediately.

My conclusion was interesting.  I had a good chance to Capture Moscow on G5 but bad dice rolls ended this ability on a R4 suicide infantry attack which actually succeeded against a split German force.  UK (who obviously had an easy and clean hand) dominated Italy and captured Rome on UK5.  Germany was still poised to capture Moscow as scheduled on G8, but with Italy gone the game was over.  USA was large with many transports, but Germany would have been fine against them and would never lose Paris.

On the Japan side, I loved the new dynamic in Mongolia - Japan can just totally bypass the Russian stacks.

My conclusion is that Germany cannot split its stack at all to capture outlying territory or Russia can pounce.  UK can end Italy easily if they feel no threat from Germany.