Changes still needed to the game, IMHO

@Gargantua:

As the axis you  just need to have a competent plan for Japan, that coincides effectively with a German Strategy.

Japan can strike at several American NO’s, and take a -5 or more a turn chunk out of Russia, by starting a conflict with them.  Then it’s all about economic’s, drawing the Americans into the Pacific, for Stale-mate or Victory.

I see this as pretty even.

If you don’t, look at the games where the Axis have won on the forums, and work on your Axis Strategy.

1. Most of the games played on the forums are not experienced AA players (all of whom would take offense to that statement).  There’s a lot of players still making some beginner mistakes or not being as efficient with their buys etc.  Point is that we can’t look at the win/loss ratio of Axis vs Allies because there’s a lot of sucky play out there right now.  I mean Alpha+2 is only a 3 months old, however in 6-9 months we can take a serious look at this ratio and it will tell us something.

2. Axis does have a longer learning curve so playtesting them will take longer.

3. Attacking Russia before round 6 (unless they stack at Amur) is stupid. It really distracts Japan’s forces to unimportant areas- a game killer for the player that attempts it if you ask me.

4. Your first statement is very true.  When playing this game you really have to think about the imbalances of the decsions you make.   You have to think “Globally”- no pun intended. :-)

BTW- my current thinking is to tweek Japan by putting 4inf and 1art on Japan (Tokyo).- as if anyone cares. :-D
Reasons are on Larry’s thread- I’ll explain later.

@JimmyHat:

Wow a G1 cruiser build!

Sorry typo carrier not a cruiser

I vehemently Disagree Questioneer.

Japan taking 5 territories or more from Russia is a 10 IPC swing - PER TURN.  It’s one of the best ways to affect both sides of the board.

It’s not about attacking and killing those infantry.  If they stack, and you have firepower in range - sure, think about it, if they retreat, force them to attack YOU.  It’s about widdling down the Russians, and encouraging them to divert resources east instead of west.  It always seems to work well for me.  The Russians always lose out in the long run.

The best advantage the Axis has - is that it can win on both boards independantly.  You need to manipulate that feature as effectively as possible, if you are to have any chance of winning.

yeah its SWINGING alright- all your forces to the north when you should be worried about VCs in the south.

If the Russian retreat, how the heck are you going to force them to attack you???  If I’m Russia you can come chase my 18inf, 1AA (I can also defend with a plane or two) down.  Japan will then give me 12 bucks which will help me even more against Germany- dumb very dumb.  In the meantime you can waste your forces picking up 1IPC tts-LOL.  If Allies see that, you are giving them more time to secure VCs.  Trust me I’ve played it!  I’ve been on both sides of it.  Its not smart- really.

in my last game, japan killed my income by attacking me when I was rus, i had no money to fight germany, lost moscow by R8

Then your Allies player sucks or was inexperienced in the game.  There are plenty of ways to make Japan pay for attacking early- pick your poison.

(I can also defend with a plane or two)

<<

If you want to talk about play that sucks, Look no further than yourself, sending Russian fighters east LOL.

@Gargantua:

(I can also defend with a plane or two)

<<

If you want to talk about play that sucks, Look no further than yourself, sending Russian fighters east LOL.

Hmm……These planes have nothing to do until germany DOW Russia. So why not sending them east on R1 ?
If Germany doesn’t buy some transports for Sealion on G2, they can come back on R2. If Germany goes Sealion, those planes are more useful in the east than sitting for 4 turns near the western front line.

@Gargantua:

(I can also defend with a plane or two)

<<

If you want to talk about play that sucks, Look no further than yourself, sending Russian fighters east LOL.

Russia only sends them if Japan is dumb enought to chase the 18inf moving West- dar dar. :-P
C’mon Canada- you’re smarter than that.

So instead of being combat effective in the event of a G2, or G3 attack, you are going to fly those planes east?  just to fly them back west?

Questioneers position is hypocritical is my point.

He says that it’s dumb for the Japanese to attack - because it gains nothing, and hurts the axis. and I say that it’s crucial for them to attack.

I made my point clear that when the Japanese attack it forces the Russians to divert resources off of Germany - which is why it is a GOOD IDEA for Japan to attack.  And low and behold, despite the fact Questioneer DISAGREE’s with me, his knee jerk reaction is to divert resources exactly as I intended and as I hope the russians would do - as part of my overall plan.

Point proven - it’s worthwhile for Japan to attack the Reds.

A second part of the question also remains.

Even IF, all those units in Korea/Manchuria avoided the reds, and the reds avoided the Japanese.

HOW MANY TURNS would it be, before those units saw a single round of combat? or took a territory?  5? 6? turns maybe?  THAT’S a waste of perfectly good resources.

And don’t tell me that you’d use your transports to move them around,  Surely you are smart enough to realize that there are infantry and equipment already placed on Islands and in Japan that can be used to fill those transports for several turns.

The choice is:

A - move units towards india  no combat for 5 to 7 turns, no territories likely taken

B - Attack the russians and make more money, and divert Russian resources in your direction.

I’ve had pretty good success sending a Russian ftr/tac east.  Not saying it will work every time, or that my opponents in that game were the best ever, but it can be viable, depending on the situation.

Now we’re talking about either attacking with the Russians OR attacking the Russians as Japan on game start?

OK.

I disagree here.  If Japan wastes a lot of resources killing the Amur stack, that’s just it, a waste.  You’re just building up a future unit deficit against China and India by not consolidating your forces in the right places.  It’s also worse to piddle around against the Chinese and the UK at game start since both powers can make MORE money as the game progresses compared to Russia which will always stay close to a static 37 IPCs (at least for the first 3-4 turns).

True, you could argue that those troops aren’t doing anything anyways, but what would you rather have on J5:  20+ land units you carefully marched across China to Burma with loaded transports in range of India; or 5-10 land units possibly without support isolated in Russia somewhere?

Same could be said of Russia with its 18 INF in Amur, if Germany goes hard for Barbarossa with a G2 build and attacks, you’ll be glad you were cautious with them at game start around R6-7.

Even though these land units aren’t effectively “used” every turn, they still have “threaten potential” to influence future events and builds across the board.

@Gargantua:

Sounds like there are alot of Japanese “Cowards” perusing the forums here…

Where’s your ZEAL? Where’s your Banzai cry for the emporer?  RUNNING FROM THE COMMUNISTS! Absurd!

I’m with ya G> BanzaiX3 squash those 18 Amur Reds with all you got!!!

“Oh Can-a-da, you’re hope-less at this game…” :wink:

Once we get this Mod to stop crashing I’ll play you a game and you can be Japan.  I’ll be Russia and slap you like a red headed step sister when you come chasing all my infantry, picking up only 1 IPC tt per round (you don’t have tanks) while you give me 12IPCs off the bat, which I will use against Germany.  Meantime because you will waste a round or two collecting cheap land that gives Allies in the Pacific more time to back hand you on your other cheek by round 5-6.  Sounds like fun.  wheeeee.

How are you diverting my planes when I can’t use them for nothing else the first 4 rounds anyway- they’ll be back in time to join the party with Germany later after Japan tries to go Rambo with me- ha ha. :lol:

Silly Canadians…

I have had success with both strats as japan…. Attacking Russians or leaving them it all depends on what is happening elseware, and what opportunities arise.  And questioner stop dumping on canadians,  what’s wih that?

@Peck:

I have had success with both strats as japan…. Attacking Russians or leaving them it all depends on what is happening elseware, and what opportunities arise.  And questioner stop dumping on canadians,  what’s wih that?

Words of wisdom….

@questioneer:

“Oh Can-a-da, you’re hope-less at this game…” :wink:
Russia will slap you like my red headed step sister when you come chasing all my infantry, picking up only 1 IPC tt per round Sounds like fun.  wheee

Dude spare me with your Canadians suc routine…. You need not bring politics into your lame-a** arguement. For the record>>> I stated that I would attack Amur if all 18 inf were stupid enough to end up on that coastline. There would be no chase because all 18 inf in Amur are dead. J1 Japan hits Amur with everything that can make it there. !All to easy! Oh and by the way… when your done beating you step sister can I take her out for a drink?

Jen, when i play a game where japan is routed so fast, ill support your view.

5 turns Jen c’mon what are you doing to get routed so fast?