I almost pulled it off

@mantlefan:

@Idi:

What was the American player buying this whole time? Bombers??? An experienced USA player would have bulked up enough home defence to stop any invasion upon seeing the Nazi Navy marshaling in Sz 91. As well how does Japan attack Eastern US?
WHATEVER…. Sounds to me like this was a very short game……UK producing tanks in South Africa, Russia practically unopposed on the Eastern front, Italy out of Africa, India/Anzac unattacked and in possesion of the money islands. China building artillery.

Way to screw the game kid>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Before they are at war, USA can only build 3 per complex a turn. At least the first 2 buys for US players ARE mostly Naval and air. Honestly if the axis Gets USA who gives a darn what the chinese are doing lol?

Looking at this situation, US really only has reason to believe it will be attacked (at least in the East) on it’s third buy. By then it might be too late to build enough.

Hey Rook, thanks for tip on limited production! The only way the USA will ever be invaded is if Mantlefan is playing them.

At the end of J1 if America feels treatened they simply upgrade their Western IC. That will eliminate any Japanese threat and with Japan throwing themselves off a cliff trying to engage the USA it would make it soooooooooooooo easy for India forces to own the Burma road/ANZAC to liberate the Philippines etc, etc>>>>>>>>>>>>

@mantlefan:

If the USA figures out what you are up to on USA2 this strat still forces them to waste a few buys on securing the continent. This is actually not a bad strat for getting pearl. Once the Japan get’s pearl with this scare, it’s honestly not that far for Germany to INDIA. Sounds crazy, but UK has been hemmed in through 2 turns of sealion scare, USA had to play defensive and get lots of land units and planes, and if Japan can put most everyhitng into holdiong pearl and going hardcore into india, and Germany can survive long enough, the german/italian/japanese combo could take india. Remember, only 6 are necessary for the victory.

I’m not saying this is the best strategy, but the fact that it can simultaneously put USA and UK in fear of their capitals can make things very interesting.

Your right! this is not the best strategy…… However this would be the best strategy if you wanted to waste 3.5 hours of other players time. Way to fall on your sword>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

@mantlefan:

@Idi:

Your right! this is not the best strategy…… However this would be the best strategy if you wanted to waste 3.5 hours of other players time. Way to fall on your sword>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So only the strategy that is proven to be the best should EVER be attempted? Let’s play all games according to the same

Why does a strategy not being the best mean that it’s impossible?

Having the right to speak your “mind” doesn’t mean you should. Please provide some evidence to support your claims, or (I’m putting it politely here) shut up!

What about a Japanese stack in 6 on J2 makes USA suspicious? Why does USA know automatically that when Germany does a fairly standard sealion until G3, they are coming for the USA?

Speaking of shut up the original post states that the Italians are in Sz92

@mantlefan:

@Idi:

At the end of J1 if America feels treatened they simply upgrade their Western IC. That will eliminate any Japanese threat and with Japan throwing themselves off a cliff trying to engage the USA it would make it soooooooooooooo easy for India to liberate the Burma road etc, etc>>>>>>>>>>>>

The most dangerous thing that could happen to Japan is a UK declaration, which simply won’t happen UK1, and if it happens UK2 (it will happen UK3), there’s not too much to worry about outside of the hong kong infantry and landing maybe formosa.

What happens when the Russians kick down Japan’s back door? Grab your ankles and take a deep breath!

Mantlefan you starting more problems?

Didn’t we get enough the last time?

Huh… it appears that Idi Amin is the one who hopped on this thread and started trolling…

Notation used: WUS=Western US, CUS=Central US, EUS= Eastern US, sz= sea zone, DD= destroyer

I’ve posted a few USA first strategies for OOB. When play testing the American response to my earlier strategies, I found central US to be vital. Basically, if West US is threatened, I pull back to central US, build there, and that way I can redeploy to either coast. If Japan takes West US, I trade it as needed. I usually pull back the starting navy to W.US turn 1, from there if Hawaii is a no go zone on turn 2, I send fleet to east side of panama(sz89) canal to link up with the ships bought in central US sea zone turn 1.

With this conservative play, when Japan moves to sz64(west of canal), I move the whole US fleet(from sz 101+sz89) to sz89(east of the canal). The central US land units move to E.US, I build mechanized as defenders for East US, so I can still trade W. US if needed. I only lose the game if Australia falls, before I liberate Hawaii in this scenario.

There is a danger, that your fleet will die in sz89 from a German navy/air, Japanese air one two punch, but it is a setback, and London survives this scenario.

It may be radical to trade West US. However, I favor a play style that seeks not to put my pieces out of position trying to defend multiple fronts. It seems optimal to concentrate forces, and force the opponent to “pull the trigger” and place his pieces out of position first, then I respond and simple logistics gives me the edge against a protracted Japanese assault.

In this threads scenario, here are my builds for U.S.:

Turn 1: 2 carriers(wus/cus), 1 transports(wus), 1 Destroyer(wus), 1 infantry(cus:because I run out of infantry filling Hawaii-standard play)
Turn2: 1 carrier(wus),2 transports(wus/eus), 2 destroyers(wus/eus),2 infantry(cus) (Hawaii gets abandoned as both fleets can hit it)
Turn3:(threat detected-German fleet at 91) 3 infantry(cus),3 fighters(eus), 1 inf(wus) save 10 IPCs

Turn 3: defensive moves (assume worst case scenario: I am caught flat-footed) Units pulled out of Hawaii last turn into WUS simply move to CUS, with all air units stacking EUS. WUS fleet moves through peaceful Japanese fleet to sz 89 to link fleets. 1 DD attempts a feeble block in sz102 to force Italy to clear for German invasion. CUS land units move to EUS (I keep all excess land units unable to fit on Hawaii bound transports here, this should be your starting land forces(-3 land units[art,2inf] sent to WUS turn2, tank and mech can reach EUS) + 5  built infantry (as 1 built turn 1 is in WUS bound for CUS this turn.)

EUS turn 4 defense (alpha+.2)= AAgun, 7 infantry(5 bought), 4 mechanized infantry, 1 armor, 8 fighters(3 bought), 1 tactical fighter, 1 bombe r+ 1 uk inf and artillery from [Ontario turn1/Quebec turn2] Note: US is at war on UK’s turn 3, thus UK may enter US.
CUS = 1 artillery, 7 infantry(3 bought, 2 from Hawaii,2 from WUS) 2 UK fighters (moved to Newfoundland turn3 when pressure lifted off capital)
WUS= 1 infantry
sz 89= 1 Battleship, 3 Cruisers, 4 Destroyers (2 bought), 2 carriers (1 bought), 5 transports (3 bought), 1 sub
sz 102= 1 Destroyer(bought turn2)
sz 101= 1 Carrier(bought turn1) 2 UK fighters. This permits US to stramble 3 air, if German’s try to hit CUS.

The above is sub-optimal, as Japan could win with 6 cities if they take Kwangtung,Phillippines,Hawaii,and W.US turn 4, with a German capture of CUS-US land unit take back force destroyed. If this is a possible outcome, it would make more sense to stack all units in CUS and trade EUS capital for 1 turn or place more air units in CUS and make EUS a gamble, or split fleet if able. Note: as stated, this is sub-optimal and a result of being caught flat footed turn 3. Or…position India/Anzac for a city liberation/defense turn4.

Note: Go back one page to read my detailed response to this threads topic.

This strategy could use a slight tweak to keep maximum pressure on Australia, instead of moving to Midway turn 2, move to Caroline islands and keep the allies focused on Anzac and Hawaii and not the WUS and EUS.

To keep UK honest, I usually amass 9 German transports and this threat will put the screws to US when you redeploy.

If you focus South, you might encourage a sloppy US to build west coast and be less prepared.

Make sure the transport off Quebec lives so you don’t have the UK infantry and armor in EUS turn 4 as they will want to stack them in UK turn 1.

Just something to think about.

@mantlefan:

@JamesAleman:

Note: Go back one page to read my detailed response to this threads topic.
This strategy could use a slight tweak to keep maximum pressure on Australia, instead of moving to Midway turn 2, move to Caroline islands and keep the allies focused on Anzac and Hawaii and not the WUS and EUS.
To keep UK honest, I usually amass 9 German transports and this threat will put the screws to US when you redeploy.
If you focus South, you might encourage a sloppy US to build west coast and be less prepared.
Make sure the transport off Quebec lives so you don’t have the UK infantry and armor in EUS turn 4 as they will want to stack them in UK turn 1.
Just something to think about.

Good look at the US buys. I really don’t know anyone whose first or even second USA buys would be for the defense of the Continental USA with a careful axis attack.

The issue with the carolines, for the Japanese, is that they can’t get within 1 SZ of W USA from there. Japan can go from 6 to 9. In the carolines, USA can just block when Japan moves from the carolines.

It’s far from Guaranteed, but a kill usa strat is quite possbile to hide (at least the first time you try it against a player) until G3. Your USA strat sounds pretty typical and decent for what the usa is capable of once the realize it’s not a sealion or a J4 SE asia steamroll.

In my suggested builds, I typically build some infantry. This is because the US starts with so many non-infantry land units, that in order to fill my early transports, I need early infantry builds.
When I first read the alpha changes regarding the limit on US builds, I thought the US was too vulnerable to defend itself from an early determined joint axis attack, that is also why I build a token infantry here and there.
My initial thoughts were that I could declare my intentions and still capture Washington by turn 5, however, since then I haven’t arrived at the right plan to justify that sentiment.
I am still left wondering why this change was suggested, as the US simply lacks the funds to construct a navy to rival Japan’s prior to entering war, and this now exposes the U.S. to possible capture, unless they voluntarily upgrade a complex.

Off Topic: The best thing about 1940 is the amount of choices the axis players have when planning.
I like the fact that USA first is potentially successful, for when axis players get board winning with London/Sydney first strategies. I found a way to deliver Sydney to Japan, without having to place the whole fleet out of position. It permits the use of the Japanese air force to achieve this. It also permits the US to remain neutral for the full three turns and forces a Pacific first response from America to keep the game going. Executed properly, India may be sacked suddenly, or if guarded, then Hawaii can be taken later at your convenience to end the game. The best part is, for a Japan, the naval deployments are graceful and sweeping like decisive sword thrusts. Seizing India for the win is simply a Chiburi stroke.

Chiburi - “Removing blood from the sword.” In Iaido, a sharp downward stroke of the sword done in such a way as to shake off the blood accumulated from previous cutting actions.

@Idi:

except OOB rookies which are the only opponents you play

That…doesn’t really make sense.  Also known as “wat is this i dont even”.

This whole strategy rides on that UK player is a rookie and does not scramble, and you dice rolls are Perfect.  No way Germany can sink all the royal navy like that unless his dice rolls are 100% perfect.

@ghr2:

This whole strategy rides on that UK player is a rookie and does not scramble, and you dice rolls are Perfect.  No way Germany can sink all the royal navy like that unless his dice rolls are 100% perfect.

His whole strategy rides on playing his son and his rookie friends after school

Dude.  Are you attempting to accomplish something in this thread, Idi?  Hoping that, if you simply denigrate the strat enough times, we’ll recognize you as a brilliant strategist and start calling the OP (who’s been here considerably longer than you) a fool for having the audacity, nay, the hubris, to suggest a somewhat novel surprise-attack strategy?  That by tearing other people down, you’ll elevate yourself in the opinions of others?

It’s not working.  You’ve lost (at least) my respect in this thread.  One would assume that means nothing to you, but, given that you like to post on the board, it seems you attach at least some weight to your opinion and appear to be attempting to convince people you are “right”.  That’s a lot harder to do when much of your audience thinks you’re a douchecanoe.

Talk game here.  Save the (poor attempt at) trolling for S.A. or FARK Politics.

@mantlefan:

Is it illegal for the Italians to move to 91 for some reason?

Not once they take Gibraltar.  Seems like getting the Italian navy to 91 by the end of I2 (in place to attack I3) would be pretty tough, though, and even if you did get it there, it would be more likely to telegraph the attack on the U.S.

@keplar:

the beauty in it that i found is that it’s never been done before (at least in my group), in any incarnation of axis and allies, the us proper is NEVER attacked. i thought it would be interesting to see if it could be done and it could ONCE.

Agreed.  It probably wouldn’t work more than once, but it might cause the U.S. to up defensive production in later games, which can be a boon in itself.  As was mentioned, the U.S. could upgrade factories early, but, hey, twenty less bucks to spend.  I’d be happy to fake the 'Murikans into tossing that cash.

When I was designing a USA first strategy, I overcame the Gibraltar issue by assuring it would be in axis control regardless of allied actions. I like to take away the roadblocks in the strategy design, as it sucks to spend 2 turns planning and moving and then see it all become pointless after an allied block.

This is accomplished by sending one of the turn 1 transports to Gibraltar on G2. That way, Italy can at the very least clear and non-combat move to 91(w. Gibraltar). This of course telegraphs your intentions a bit.

If you do not want to lose the transports, and you plan on a second carrier, send the turn 1 fleet with it for protection, the only counter I found that is not likely to be chosen is an UK air attack that lands in any of the UK,Dutch,or French territories off sea zone 88 (S. America)

russia seems like it’ll go down a bit quicker. who knows.