G1 Total BLITZKRIEG.

@Gargantua:

A friend you don’t like comes over, you only have time for a quick game, but you want to bust it out.

So you Skip Sea-Lion and go HARD for Russia.

Has anyone had the guts to try this|?  You can land near Novogord G1, Pop that little Ruskie navy - maybe airforce if they scramble.  Certainly threaten Novogord for G2.  Aren’t the brits a moot point the first 4 turns anyways?  And how far into Russia can you get before the U.S are in?

Imagine a G1 build of a factory in Romania, with some Basic openers, Typical France, Some typical naval attacks against the British fleet to slow them down.

Then -
Bessarabia,
Eastern Poland,
Baltic States.

G2 you build 10 armor in Romania.

not 2, not 3.

10.

They are in West Ukraine G3.  Caucausus / Volgograd / Moscow G4? G5?  Leave Yuguslavia for the Little Italy.

Talk about the Rolling Thunder - BLITZKRIEG. Especially if combined with your aircraft.  By G4 you could have 2 minor factories of Russia’s producing FOR YOU. With Romania on the Front Door.  Now you’re the Big dog, Volgograd isn’t going to Hold.  Then it’s TANKS TANKS TANKS until Moscow Capitualtes.  Head West After.

France is a MESS.  Even if the Allies (British) start landing, who gives a crap.  They can’t take Paris and Hold - which would then mean you get the capital $ AGAIN.  You can Produce 20 + Units on that front once the east is won.

Italy may face some extra pressure, but nothing SO burning that they couldn’t handle it.

Thoughts anyone?

Japan also has to attack from the EAST.  I’m a big believer in that anyways.

Tanks, tanks, tanks, its always about the tanks with you Gar. LOL

Any chance of a few mech inf. just for aesthetics?

I tried it while testing Alpha+ .1. I figured killing those Russians on the border territories turn 1 was at least worth it. Not really.  :-P I got bogged down relatively quickly and Italy couldn’t get off the ground.

I’d like to try it again sometime with the new setup.

Always wanted to try this.  It seemed like Larry wanted something like this anyway, with the way he kept beefing up the UK all over the place, making Sealion impractical at best.  Might as well go for Russia first, since they’re still at OOB strength.  At least until Larry notices that the SU is now “unbalanced” vs. G1 war decs and then screws everything up in Russia to prevent “unbalanced” G1 attacks for Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Delta +.824123354289.  Right.

Only problem seems to be getting the best bang for your buck with your airforce on G1.  Meh, take 1/2 your airforce and kill the BB in SZ 111, forget about SZ 110, and with the other 1/2 of the airforce attack the SU border territories along with starter inf.  You would need to build a DD to kill the sub in the Baltic on G2.  After the Romanian major IC, then just Mechs and Arm to victory.  I guess you’d probably have to help out Italy for sure in the Med since the pressure is off the UK.

Hell, maybe even forgo the UK navy entirely, and send that first 1/2 of your airforce to France instead of using the standard 5 armor invasion stack, and use those tanks to make an uber stack of 18 ARM in Romania/E Poland by G2/3.  The INF and ART in Berlin also get to move much quicker to the front, and you ought to be able to take Novgorod with ease by G3 (14-20 INF and ART accompanied by 8 ARM plus most of air force should easily be able to kill Nov’s stack (maybe you’re fighting 20 INF if Russia decides to defend Nov, with some planes, which is asking for it)).  Stalin basically loses 7 border INF he would have retreated on Russia 1 with this move, so those are also less reinforcements for the Rooskies later on.  Also ought to be easy to take Archangel, and prevent Russia’s NO even if your fleet is bottled up in the Baltic.

Then just swing your forces down to the South, and finish her off.  With 3 ICs in production range of the capital, its just a matter of time before Moscow falls.  Only problem with this strat would be that you have even LESS time to KO Russia than most games, as the UK is playing at full strength if not full strength +25% since you didn’t touch their starting naval units, and have no counters in position for Gibraltar attacks/Italy invasions.

It’d be interesting to see the Allies response with this strat, if both Japan and Germany squished Russia between them from the first move on.  The Allies have a hell of a time actually landing troops into Russia to prevent the capital from falling in the first place, so even if the UK navy survives, it may still prove to be a non-factor in getting enough forces to Moscow for the Allies to hold it, especially against 20+ German tanks.

Actually, let me put another spin on this strategy.

Build 6 MECH and 2 INF on G1, instead of the major IC in Romania.  Why do we really need to build the major IC when ARM and MECH from Germany can reach the front lines in E Poland in a single turn?  They’re only one territory behind the rest of the units, and in any case, the soonest Germany can get the 10 produced tanks on G2 to Novgorod/Ukraine is by turn 4 at the earliest.  Also, you’re not losing any initial momentum in Russia on G2 in getting units to the front lines with the MECH purchase.  If its really needed, the major IC can be built later anyway.

G1 BARBAROSSA STYLE!

BUY 6 MECH, 2 INF

Attack France with 8 INF, 3 ART, 2 MECH, 2 FIG, 2 TAC, 1 SBmr? (maybe the SBmr)
2 SS attack SZ 106
2 SS attack SZ 91
1 SS + 1 FIG + CA or TAC attack SZ 112
3 INF 1 FIG 1 TAC attack Baltic States
2 INF 1 FIG 1 TAC attack E Poland
2 INF 1 TAC (maybe 1 SBmr) attack Bessarabia

This plan should have you at least killing off at least some of the minor naval units of the UK plus taking out 7 INF off the Soviet border that won’t be able to retreat back.  There’s plenty of planes around to stack W. Germany and N. and S. Italy with extra FIGs for scrambling as defense.  The 6 MECH plus 2 leftover MECH from W. Germany can be used as fodder to push the line forward to E Poland on G2, while you’re building the 10 ARM with the extreme G2 build with France’s IPCs.  The 8 initial armor at the beginning of the game can be used to stack with the 8 MECH for a very good starting force in E Poland by G2.

The German attack on Russia G1 also produces a lot of side benefit of starting the war much earlier, so the Russians don’t have the 3-4 turns they normally get to prepare for it.  You’re killing 7 INF on the first turn, plus they’re missing around 3 additional turns of infantry/unit builds, so that’s potentially 20-30 INF you’re now not needing to chew through to get to Moscow.

@SgtBlitz:

Actually, let me put another spin on this strategy.

Build 6 MECH and 2 INF on G1, instead of the major IC in Romania.  Why do we really need to build the major IC when ARM and MECH from Germany can reach the front lines in E Poland in a single turn?  They’re only one territory behind the rest of the units, and in any case, the soonest Germany can get the 10 produced tanks on G2 to Novgorod/Ukraine is by turn 4 at the earliest.  Also, you’re not losing any initial momentum in Russia on G2 in getting units to the front lines with the MECH purchase.  If its really needed, the major IC can be built later anyway.

G1 BARBAROSSA STYLE!

BUY 6 MECH, 2 INF

Attack France with 8 INF, 3 ART, 2 MECH, 2 FIG, 2 TAC, 1 SBmr? (maybe the SBmr)
2 SS attack SZ 106
2 SS attack SZ 91
1 SS + 1 FIG + CA or TAC attack SZ 112
3 INF 1 FIG 1 TAC attack Baltic States
2 INF 1 FIG 1 TAC attack E Poland
2 INF 1 TAC (maybe 1 SBmr) attack Bessarabia

This plan should have you at least killing off at least some of the minor naval units of the UK plus taking out 7 INF off the Soviet border that won’t be able to retreat back.  There’s plenty of planes around to stack W. Germany and N. and S. Italy with extra FIGs for scrambling as defense.  The 6 MECH plus 2 leftover MECH from W. Germany can be used as fodder to push the line forward to E Poland on G2, while you’re building the 10 ARM with the extreme G2 build with France’s IPCs.  The 8 initial armor at the beginning of the game can be used to stack with the 8 MECH for a very good starting force in E Poland by G2.

The German attack on Russia G1 also produces a lot of side benefit of starting the war much earlier, so the Russians don’t have the 3-4 turns they normally get to prepare for it.  You’re killing 7 INF on the first turn, plus they’re missing around 3 additional turns of infantry/unit builds, so that’s potentially 20-30 INF you’re now not needing to chew through to get to Moscow.

Where do u send the starting armor?

IMHO, having never even tried this, I would have to say this is an intriguing solution.

I would probably for go the industrial in Romania, however.  Instead, I would do a typical G1 open with a purchase of ground units instead of surface fleet.  This weeds out the majority of the British navy and alleviates pressure from Germany that needs eliminating.

Then, on G2 make Transports and ground units and invade Russia.

G3 you have Transports for fast attacks into Leningrad (Novgorod) from which to apply pressure directly on Moscow.  One would suspect, by this point, most of the Russian resistance in the South has dissolved or been eliminated by the Italians who are ignoring Africa and using their forces to press the Muscovites deeper and deeper into Red territory.

Japanese invasions in the north would just be gravy on the steak dinner that was Russia.

Played a game of Europe last night, with modified A+2 rules.  Built six tanks G1, 9 tanks 2 mech G2.  Only killed about half of the Brit fleet first round (left both groups off of England), but ended up taking Russia after only a few Allied forays into Holland, Denmark, and Normandy.  Was able to kick the Allies back off each time.  It was a bit of a pain, though.

Ended up taking Moscow because the Russkies missed an Italian can opener in Samara.  Might have stalled out if they’d blocked that one, but it’s tough to say.  I think we still would have gotten it, but it would have taken a few more rounds, which MIGHT have been enough for the Americans to get Rome.  Don’t think so, though…Italy was starting to turtle, and I think they could have held out, especially with German help.

Does this strategy still apply with Larry’s latest tank fiasco rule?

G1 Barabossa has been my standard Axis attack – if UK get’s too cocky, you can always build a navy G2 to put them back in their place.

I generally buy only mechs for the first 3 turns. By the time UK rebuilds their navy and the US gets involved, I usually have Stalingrad or Leningrad and a boatload of formerly-Soviet income.

Russia is really only a problem when you have to face them after 3 turns of build up. If you go in early, you’ll more than make up for the loss of NOs.

“AA.ORG’s Villian”

G1 Total BLITZKRIEG.
« on: February 15, 2011, 03:16:49 pm » Quote

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A friend you don’t like comes over, you only have time for a quick game, but you want to bust it out.

So you Skip Sea-Lion and go HARD for Russia.

Has anyone had the guts to try this|?  You can land near Novogord G1, Pop that little Ruskie navy - maybe airforce if they scramble.  Certainly threaten Novogord for G2.  Aren’t the brits a moot point the first 4 turns anyways?  And how far into Russia can you get before the U.S are in?

Imagine a G1 build of a factory in Romania, with some Basic openers, Typical France, Some typical naval attacks against the British fleet to slow them down.

Then -
Bessarabia,
Eastern Poland,
Baltic States.

G2 you build 10 armor in Romania.

not 2, not 3.

They are in West Ukraine G3.  Caucausus / Volgograd / Moscow G4? G5?  Leave Yuguslavia for the Little Italy.

Talk about the Rolling Thunder - BLITZKRIEG. Especially if combined with your aircraft.  By G4 you could have 2 minor factories of Russia’s producing FOR YOU. With Romania on the Front Door.  Now you’re the Big dog, Volgograd isn’t going to Hold.  Then it’s TANKS TANKS TANKS until Moscow Capitualtes.  Head West After.

France is a MESS.  Even if the Allies (British) start landing, who gives a crap.  They can’t take Paris and Hold - which would then mean you get the capital $ AGAIN.  You can Produce 20 + Units on that front once the east is won.

Italy may face some extra pressure, but nothing SO burning that they couldn’t handle it.

Thoughts anyone?

Japan also has to attack from the EAST.  I’m a big believer in that anyways.

Sounds like a good plan i was planning something like this for my first axis game,you have put my mind at rest tanks,sorry i mean thanks

@Pelanderfunk:

G1 Barabossa has been my standard Axis attack – if UK get’s too cocky, you can always build a navy G2 to put them back in their place.

I generally buy only mechs for the first 3 turns. By the time UK rebuilds their navy and the US gets involved, I usually have Stalingrad or Leningrad and a boatload of formerly-Soviet income.

Russia is really only a problem when you have to face them after 3 turns of build up. If you go in early, you’ll more than make up for the loss of NOs.

Generally, I set up units to invade Russia, but do Sea Lion because it is virtually assured (thus you get more income + yet another NO and deny America a staging ground).  Thus, on G3 you can go with your plan and attempt to crush Russia faster.

Keep in mind, I generally own the Pacific by round 3 anyway with Japan, thus America is in the awkward position of letting Japan win the game with Victory Cities or letting Germany and Italy go free in Asia.

Are you trolling Jen? The topic is about Germany going hard on russia R1.

So which naval battles are we skipping? and you still doing france right?

@Cow:

Are you trolling Jen? The topic is about Germany going hard on russia R1.

So which naval battles are we skipping? and you still doing france right?

No, not trolling.  I was just thinking it would be better to not go hard on Russia and instead hit England.  Let me tell you why:

• Generally Germany has 4 Mech, 4 Arm left in Paris after round 1.  At times I have some artillery left, at times I only have some armor left, but it seems logical to have these 8 units left.
• SZ 111 has to be cleared at the very least.  You cannot allow England to have 2 battleships.  Personally, with the scramble rules changed, I still want to see if it is possible to sink both Battleships without expending too many Aircraft. (by that I mean losing them as casualties.)
• The NO for having Russia at peace is permanent for rounds 1-4 if you do not attack Russia, that’s a guarenteed 20 IPC you will lose if you attack Russia and push in hard.  Can you recover it?  Sure, could your dice suck?  Sure.  The question is, do you want to gamble it?
  *  Sea Lion is a certainty. (well, the probability of success is virtually 100%, I guess I could go check on a calculator, but you have 11 infantry, 3 artillery, 8 armor and aircraft to attack with, England has about 16 infantry and 4 fighters to defend with, give or take.  Feel free to run the numbers, I am just making a guess here.  That of course assumes England blocks and stops Germany from bombarding with a cruiser and a battleship as well.
• England is going to yield at least 20 IPC, probably 26-30 IPC + it is also a NO for 5 IPC a round AND it is hard to liberate.
• Your 11 transports can be used to keep Norway/Finland in German hands instead of losing them and the NO to Russia.

It is my humble opinion, that it is wiser to hit England than to hit Russia, financially.

I don’t know.  Perhaps I missed discussion on why this was a better tactic than Sea Lion.  I will admit that they will fix England so Sea Lion is not so assured of success and then the experience of attacking Russia will put those of you who do this ahead of those of us who do not, probably.