Total Domination (or close to)

Shadowerseer

so I am a bit of a newer player who only will be able to play against one other person for now, when we looked at the win conditions we thought they were well kinda weird or “unfair” so we decided to try and total defeat (or close enough to be obvious).

My question is in a game like this what side do you think has the advantage.

taamvan

The Axis.

Total defeat is pretty much what the victory conditions already are. Hold 1 axis capital is going to be hard…holding 2 is going to be an extremely protracted affair. Especially if you are a new player, I would assume such a game would take about 20-30 hours of play.

Try YG’s Victory Token Rules. They are clean, posted several times below here and don’t require a time limit–you can fairly end the game at the conclusion of any turn after turn 4. They also encourage you to attack various side goals such as taking Paris or Rome by giving you permanent credit for doing so.

DCWhat

I’ve taken a break from posting or even playing A&A for a bit. Reason why is because of this idea right here, “Total Domination”. First off, never again. Secondly, I agree with adopting YG’s victory rules after my last experience. Let me say that when you start a board game at 8am and it’s now midnight and no one has yet to win, patience has been thrown out the window and the game is no longer fun. When you play for another two hours, everything your opponent does seems that much more annoying. Like changing one’s purchase 3 times. Finally you will reach the breaking point where anything will trigger an explosion. For instance, rolling three 1’s on a SBR defence. I don’t recommend this victory condition to anyone. 22 hours with no winner is too much. Trust me, it will ruin this game for you.

If you do decide to go against this advice, allies should let Japan run wild and go full Atlantic and stop the Germans and Italians first. Who cares how big Japan gets, as long as they don’t reach Russia capital the numbers game will be too much. And then they will flip the board. LOl

Shadowerseer

well one benefit we do have is we live together and have a space to walk away from and come back. It has indeed be a long war(and still going). never could do that in one sitting for sure.

CWO Marc

@Shadowseer:

It has indeed be a long war(and still going).

Here’s an inspirational bulletin from the 1936 movie Things to Come, which predicted the outbreak of a world war in 1940.

Things To Come.jpg

Kreuzfeld

I have not tried total domination. From my experience, the allies lose the war because it is very difficult to prevent the axis from winning on both of the maps at the same time. However, if you just go for total domination, you could say “I dont care about the pacific” as the allies and use 100% of US income in europe. If you do this, you can build a troop bridge from us to spain and have 20 us infantry landing in spain on US4. I don’t see how germany will be able to handle that many troops just marching though france. My guess is that moscow dont fall and germany will fall by US15. At that time, Japan should have taken all of the islands, hawaii, australia and india. They will make about 150 IPC/ round. US will make 60, ussr will make 60+ (with all of the spread of communism NOs), france will make 15 and ukE will make at least 40. I have not countet out everything but I am sure I didn’t count all of the IPCs from killing the euroaxis.

I am pretty sure that when the euroaxis falls, it would not matter if Japan made 170 IPC, the would still lose.

taamvan

Its similar to the victory conditions in Risk. Ok; we start with 5 players, 3 are eliminated over the course of 3 hours…then they sit and watch while the last two of us spend ANOTHER 3 hours trying to take EVERY territory to win.

Monopoly is similar; Play for 3 hours to eliminate everyone and gain position, then spend another hour or so rolling to see who lands on the whammy square.

American board games are notorious for having logical but completely unreasonable end conditions, which is why Eurogames are so appealing; they are either designed with turns or depletion limits that force an endgame condition.

Tirano

taam and shadow said it perfectly, which is why this game is not a representation of what really happened, but instead a balanced (or at least attempt at balanced) game. If you go for total Domination I would not play the Axis for a Bid of under 100 IPC.

Shadowerseer

currently in are game i am playing axis and japan cracked and are just sitting on there lone island convoyed to death. a the same time tho Russia has completely fallen to Germany and Italy has control of Egypt. the biggest battle zone seems to be in the middle east were Germany troop and tank reinforcements just arrived how ever The U.S has made a beach head in Europe that im preparing to counter attack. so its been a crazy inexperienced back and fourth. Things are looking alittle bleak for axis tho.

CWO Marc

@taamvan:

Its similar to the victory conditions in Risk. Ok; we start with 5 players, 3 are eliminated over the course of 3 hours…then they sit and watch while the last two of us spend ANOTHER 3 hours trying to take EVERY territory to win.

The OOB A&A rules and the total domination variant both actually have something in common: the games can theoretically last forever – or at least for an extremely large number of rounds – and as such they’re unrealistic because a total war between major powers can’t be sustained forever.

Total war, on the scale seen in WWI and WWII, imposes enormous social and economic strains on the participant nations (in addition to the direct casualties and destruction which occur both on the battlefield and in civilian areas that are subjected to military attack). In many cases (the U.S. in both world wars being a significant exception), the resources and manpower of nations engaged in total war are expended more quickly than they can be replaced (particularly in the case of people, who even if they’re drafted as teenagers take 15 or more years to be replaced from newborns). The game rules don’t take these factors into account: the players can keep fighting as long as they can collect income, without worrying about running out of civilian workers or draft-age recruits, and without worrying about social breakdown or revolution at home (except in the case of the optional Russian Revolution rule in A&A 1914).

Barbara Tuchman’s book The Zimmermann Telegram describes vividly how nations can eventually crumble under the strain of total war. Her opening chapter, set in January 1917, says, “Now the French were drained, the Russians dying, Rumania, a late entry on the Alied side, already ruined and overrun. The enemy was no better off. Germans were living on a diet of potatoes, conscripting fifteen-year-olds for the army, gumming up the cracks that were beginning to appear in the authority of Kaiserdom with even harsher measures. The [recent German peace offer] had been a mere pretense, designed to be rejected so that the General Staff could wring from the home front and faltering Austria yet more endurance and more sacrifice. […] England had fortitude left, but no money and, what was worse, no ideas. […] No prospect of any end was visible. […] It seemed there was nothing that would bring in the Americans before Europe exhausted itself beyond recovery.” Similarly, Gwynne Dyer’s book war makes the point that none of the regimes on the losing side (or rather sides) of WWI survived: the Russian, German, Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman empires were all destroyed, and the latter two were completely dismantled into a patchwork of successor states. The British and French empires survived on paper, but were greatly weakened and were ultimately finished off by WWII and its aftermath.

If a group of players wanted to prevent A&A games from going on forever (and in fairness, players don’t necessarily want this), one solution might be to create some sort of house rule that tracks the social and economic strain of waging total war, and which has some sort of built-in breaking point for each power depending on the particulars of its situation. Realistically, though, such a house rule would favour the Allies because of the US’s geographic isolation (which makes it difficult to attack) and its status as a net producer of war goods (unlike the UK, which was a net consumer), and the USSR’s vast manpower reserves. One factor that would compensate matters to some degree would be for the game to assume improved economic efficiency by Germany than was the case historically. (Germany in WWII was extremely inefficient at making use of its domestic and captured economic infrastructure, for a variety of reasons.)

Young Grasshopper

Because it was mentioned, here is my victory token house rule…

YouTube video explanation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X-47c75SyI

Victory Objectives and Victory Tokens

Once a victory objective is achieved, a victory token will be awarded, the side with the most victory tokens at the end of the day wins the game. Victory tokens are awarded immediately upon completion regardless of when, or how the objective was achieved, and a token can never be taken away or awarded twice for the same objective. It doesn’t matter which round the game ends, however, a win or a tie can only be declared at the end of a full game round.

Optional Rule: The first side to achieve 3 victory tokens will immediately win the game.

New Research & Development Rule:

Research rolls are no longer used to develop breakthroughs, instead, nations are awarded development rolls when victory objectives have been achieved. Once a victory token is gained, the nation with the corresponding (*) instructions listed with each objective will choose a breakthrough chart, and make a free development roll with the resulting breakthrough taking effect immediately (may not effect units already in battle during the turn in which the breakthrough was rolled). Any breakthroughs gained by either UK Europe, or UK Pacific will be shared between both UK nations throughout the game.

Here is a list of all victory objectives for each side…

Axis Powers

London
The Axis control London
(R&D) *The nation that takes control
Moscow
The Axis control Moscow
(R&D) *The nation that takes control
Calcutta
The Axis control Calcutta
(R&D) *The nation that takes control
Sydney
The Axis control Sydney
(R&D) *The nation that takes control
North Africa
The Axis control Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Tobruk, Alexandria, and Egypt.
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most
Pacific
The Axis control 6 victory cities on the Pacific map
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most
Europe
The Axis control 7 victory cities on the Europe map
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most
Global Economy
All 3 Axis powers have a combined total of 136 IPCs on the income tracker
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most

Allied Powers

Berlin
The Allies control Berlin
(R&D) *The nation that takes control
Rome
The Allies control Rome
(R&D) *The nation that takes control
Tokyo
The Allies control Tokyo
(R&D) *The nation that takes control
Africa
The Allied powers control all non-neutral territories on the continent of Africa
(R&D) *The nation that controls the most
Paris Liberation
The Allies have liberated Paris
(R&D) *The nation that takes control
Philippines Liberation
The Allies have liberated the Philippines
(R&D) *The United States
Asia
The Allies control the Burma road as well as Hong Kong and Shanghai
(R&D) *The United Kingdom
Pacific Fleet
There are no Japanese Capital ships on the board
(R&D) *The United States

Shadowerseer

we have talked abut using this rule set before but my opponent is not as familiar with it.

Also enjoy your videos YG

Total Domination (or close to)

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