R1 Norway Attack! HOT or NOT?

Well, you have to also see the prize Gerrys pay. I am inclined to say that if WR is the only attack they do I am an happy Allied player as long as I can destroy their remaining units on russian 2. I think I am over 50 % against attack on WR, even if Germany suceeded. The game basically turns into a slugfest then.

Gerrys are out of water, out of Africa, will never see Norway again, while the UK/US are all over it R3/4

But I really do not want to go into all the details again, its in the thread.

I originally came just to confess that I am registered on GTO. Played my first game, won with axis. It was a joy, since guy tried to KJF me and although he had sunk my complete japanese fleet R2 (had 9% to succeed, went for it and won), I got Mosocw R5, London R7 and the game was over.

Since there is no battle calc (at least i did not notice) and no sophisticated stats (TUV) the game feels much more like the playing experience at a real table. It also really seems there is much easier to find someone to play against then at TripleA, which is a pity since i really like the interface more and the community is great. I also noticed they have a league there, that looks much more competitive than the one there is at TripleA. Does anybody have any experience with that?

Just had a 2nd game of the Norwegian Gamble (on Low Luck) as Axis.

The whole Eastern front simply collapses: WRus is attacked and taken, Caucasus taken with amphib assault (if 1-2 units) + bomber. Russian army is capable of retaking both, but Germany retains inf and armor on Karelia, E. Eur and Ukraine ready to strike back at both WRus and Caucasus.
There are only few good options for the UK/US, anything while this is happening. On this game the UK send the Middle East units through Persia… but since they didn’t bothered with the Germans on Libya they lost control of Egypt. UK going to Persia helped the fight for Caucasus (which the Axis contested for every round) but it turned into a meat grinder that Russia couldn’t afford to.

I still think the Norwegian gambit is the best option for allies ( even Hobbes showed me how to stop the axis in different way) but i will never use it in LL game. Many of GTO players rather go Pacific with USA rather then KGF so playing there u will prolly see many different strategies.

As for the league its running for about 7 months now, but unfortunately many top players left including Zhukov, FreshPrince, David Newell. I think only Gcar is left there but i see many new promising players  like El_Ravager.
The major problem was that most of the players could play only pbem and that usually takes a lot of time and sometimes u cant finish the games on time which is very frustrating. The league is now prolly more challenging cause all the players are about of the same skill not like before when Zhuk was dominating the league.

I think Hobbes hit the point on the head exactly about the norwegian attack. Russia needs the units that it sends to norway for west russia to defend against a counter attack by germany. If the russian forces all die Germany R1 I don’t see how this is a winning plan for the allies… Maybe Russia doesn’t fall by german hands, and Vs. a good allied player russia can hold Vs germany. The real problem is now japan is a lot stronger because it is able to make a ton of ground early and take russia’s money away.

@lukalion:

The major problem was that most of the players could play only pbem and that usually takes a lot of time and sometimes u cant finish the games on time which is very frustrating. The league is now prolly more challenging cause all the players are about of the same skill not like before when Zhuk was dominating the league.

Lukalion is being modest–technically Lukalion and I had the same record so we were co-champions.  But yeah it did seem like the competition was going to get harder with Axis strategies rapidly improving and talented players like El_Ravager and Football moving up.  It was time to get out while I was ahead :)

I burned out quick since 42 is so similar to Revised and I’d experienced Revised burnout before.  Even though aa50 is getting more technical I continue to prefer it at this time.

I find the GTO league format too demanding.  It takes alot of time/effort/analysis to win PBE games and since I hate losing, I was spending more time then I ought to on them.  While the league is alot of fun, I prefer a straight ratings format like the TripleA ladder.

Interesting discussion on Nor/WR.  I’m curious what people’s guidelines are on when it’s appropriate for Germany to counter WR following a standard Nor/WR opening for both dice and low luck.  If Russia loses 3 inf, do you go for it, or does Russia need to lose 4?

@Zhukov44:

Interesting discussion on Nor/WR.  I’m curious what people’s guidelines are on when it’s appropriate for Germany to counter WR following a standard Nor/WR opening for both dice and low luck.  If Russia loses 3 inf, do you go for it, or does Russia need to lose 4?

With LL Russia needs only to lose 2 inf… which it will unless G rolls a 6 on the 1st round of combat on WRus. Russia is left with 7 inf, 2 art and 3 arm, Germany attacks with 6 inf, 1 art, 3 arm and 4 fighters. So it’s basically suicide for the Russians.

@Bunnies:

@Hobbes:

@Zhukov44:

Interesting discussion on Nor/WR.  I’m curious what people’s guidelines are on when it’s appropriate for Germany to counter WR following a standard Nor/WR opening for both dice and low luck.  If Russia loses 3 inf, do you go for it, or does Russia need to lose 4?

With LL Russia needs only to lose 2 inf… which it will unless G rolls a 6 on the 1st round of combat on WRus. Russia is left with 7 inf, 2 art and 3 arm, Germany attacks with 6 inf, 1 art, 3 arm and 4 fighters. So it’s basically suicide for the Russians.

Does that factor in the AA gun that should be on West Russia?

Yes but I didn’t mentioned it there, already removed the extra ftr. So, 5 fighters attacking, 1 gets shot down. O And you still get the bomber to use elsewhere. I should have included that notice above.

This situation can be very dangerous to Russia, period.

I’ve just played Germany’s round on GTO and counterattacked on W Russia, with Russia only attacking on WRus and buying 1 sub and 1 ftr. 6 inf, ,1 art, 3 arm and 5 fighters against 6 inf, 2 art and 3 arm and AA Gun. I also attacked SZ2 and landed on Gibraltar.

I got lucky on W Russia (0 AA hits) and should have lost more 2 units (ended up with 2 inf, 1 art, 3 arm there) but now the Russians are dead meat. The UK couldn’t sink the Med fleet (ended trying to land on Norway), so now the US ended up landing on Algeria to allow the Russians to attack the Med fleet. Crazy…

EDIT: Allies just surrendered. Put less than 12 (or even more!) Russian units on WRussia without attacking Ukraine on R1 and things can get ugly… unless you get lucky on dice (90% odds for Germany)

EDIT: Ouch. I think I have bad news for the Russians. I’m thinking of writing a strategy article for the Germans to go for that smashing hit against West Russia, depending on a number of conditions (Russian buys & combat losses on R1). Even with dice, Russia going Norway is starting to look as an opportunity for the Germans. You’re still gambling with the Luftwaffe on the AA gun but since it is the first round you might as well try your luck.

What I like to do is attack West Russia with everything. I can, excluding some units to defend Caucasus. I try to completely crush the Germans in West Russia so that I have as many surviving units as possible. Hopefully then Germany cannot take that back, because it is really hard to keep attacking if I lose my tanks and artillery.

To compensate with the threat of Japan, I move pretty much everything in the east to the western front. This forces Japan to spread out (harder for J to attack), but lets me keep a line of defense against them. I keep four inf in Yakut SSR and two in Novosibirsk to either move north if J tries to attack there, or to move into China if J attacks there instead.

I have not yet tried taking both West Russia and Ukraine on R1, but then I don’t have quite as much time to play as many other members on this site. I will definitely consider it in my next game though.

@mastermind93:

I have not yet tried taking both West Russia and Ukraine on R1, but then I don’t have quite as much time to play as many other members on this site. I will definitely consider it in my next game though.

Do try it, it’s a lot of German units that cannot participate in a german counter attack against West Russia. (and killing of a tank and a fighter is a good incentive as well)
That said, it is best to assign planes to attack Ukraine and tanks to West Russia (as the Ukraine survivors will most probably die in G1)

@mastermind93:

What I like to do is attack West Russia with everything. I can, excluding some units to defend Caucasus. I try to completely crush the Germans in West Russia so that I have as many surviving units as possible. Hopefully then Germany cannot take that back, because it is really hard to keep attacking if I lose my tanks and artillery.

The problem is that the only way to secure your Russian forces on West Russia during Germany’s round is to move almost everything, 15 units or more, otherwise they can be attacked and destroyed, so you really have to either get lucky and suffer 0 casualties or you’ll have to leave Caucasus for G or you risk being hit on 1 of them. Check the stats on the Case Blue strategy article I’m writing, on the Article Submission section.

My first attempt at it was a success.  My oppenent did counter by all out attacking WR but I was able to retake it back.  So much UK equipment left untouched due to his all out attack on WR that the Med was easily cleared with the UK.  With USA and UK threatening landings in Western Europe from turn 2 onwards, Germany had to quickly turtle, Japan couldn’t get its fighters in place quickly enough to make a difference.

I really liked using a different opening from my normal, was a lot of fun!  Fastest win I’ve had with the allies to date.  Looking forward to playing the axis against the strategy.

it is true that UK and US make quick gains, but if you buy correctly for germany, almost all infantry every round, then Russia becomes so weak that he can’t stand on his own. This forces UK to give troops to russia to keep russia from falling to a good german strategy. Germany doesn’t take Russia but then Japan becomes more powerful faster because russia can’t afford to send a good deal of units vs Japan.

@theROCmonster:

it is true that UK and US make quick gains, but if you buy correctly for germany, almost all infantry every round, then Russia becomes so weak that he can’t stand on his own. This forces UK to give troops to russia to keep russia from falling to a good german strategy. Germany doesn’t take Russia but then Japan becomes more powerful faster because russia can’t afford to send a good deal of units vs Japan.

So you buy almost all infantry every round? I understand your logic. However, the allies have time on their side. If Germany buys mostly infantry every round, wouldn’t it take longer for them to reach the front lines, thus giving US and UK more time to build up a navy and start landing troops in Western Europe? I’ve never played using this strategy, but I am just confused about how it would work.

I really dont see all inf buy working as a good strategy against succesful Norwegian gambit. If allies set up in Karelia in time, the infantry will never come to threaten russia at all. And with Germany on -40 and UK/US pumping 16 units to Europe a round it is only a matter of time before Allies get Berlin because Germany will not stay competitive in the arms race.

On the other hand buying all inf Germany can be a powerful offensive move if you see Allies go after Japan. I than ussually buy all inf on G2, G3 moving that East and building all tanks, R4 moving all that infantry and tanks to UKR and building some more tanks, R5 taking cauc, moving the tanks from Berlin to Ukr, building bmbs, R6 taking Moscow.

It worked for me so perfectly against last KJF attempt applied on me, that I took moscow with 21 tanks remaining. But this you will not be able to do if Russia is not wasting its units on skirmishes with Japan in Far East and if US/UK set up themselves on Norway/WEU R3.

Honestly Granada I would have to show you in a game. Not to sound cocky but I am very good and don’t make mistakes. For this strategy to work you have know when you are able to move your infantry stacks out of Germany/southern Germany/Eastern Europe/ and sometime karelia if you are here. You are correct in that germany won’t have much attack power. I almost always build 10 inf 2 tanks R1. Gives Germany some options on R2. Even possibly sending a tank to africa if your fleet was not destroyed. The thing is Germany doesn’t need attack power so much as Stacking power. 6 tanks =30 while as 10 infantry=30 is a huge difference. The more units you can stack in a Certain area the better. I am not a big fan of trying to take an hold western Europe. I Usually give this up very early on in the game and send almost everything at Russia. Germany’s tanks are vital in holding back both russia and US and UK. Try keeping Germany tankss in Eastern Europe. This both protects against a combined stack in western europe from the allies, and also is realy scary to russia and can hit many fronts on your eastern theatre.