@Young:
1 sub attacks a lone aircraft carrier with 2 fighters,
1. Only the sub and carrier resolve combat on the battle board.
2. The sub hit during the 1st round of combat and a damage marker goes under the carrier.
Does the carrier receive it’s Defence roll, or does the sub immediately continue with another surprise strike, submerge, or retreat to begin the 2nd combat round?3. The sub (if survives) submerges, leaving the carrier damaged.
what are the fighters options?If the carrier is undamaged and only receives one hit during the subs sneak attacks it may return fire…if multiple subs were firing and 2 hits were assigned to one carrier, then it would not return fire.
If a damaged carrier is hit during the sub attack, it would not return fire as well.
A carrier that is only hit once and damaged during a round of combat by a sub, may return fire within the same round.
Questions about the Mongolian rule,
1. If japanese units attack a Russian territory adjacent to Mongolia (Amur), and a Mongolian territory (Buyant- Uhaa) in the same combat movement phase, is the strict neutral rule activated, or the Mongolian rule?
2. If Russian units attack Japanese units in the Chinese territory of Kansu is the Mongolian rule still active or does it become neutralized?
3. If Russian units attack Japanese units in Kazakhstan, is the Mongolian rule still active or does it become neutralized?
Do you have to declare war on a neutral to NCM over it as well? I said yes, since you are violating their airspace and we went with it, but a clear decision would be great so I can either go and say “hey, I was wrong, sorry” or “yea, we got that right.” (For that matter, for a combat move too?)
@Cmdr:
Do you have to declare war on a neutral to NCM over it as well? I said yes, since you are violating their airspace and we went with it, but a clear decision would be great so I can either go and say “hey, I was wrong, sorry” or “yea, we got that right.” (For that matter, for a combat move too?)
Thats usually how it goes (what ever makes sense, and than find out later), I am also interested in this one, because air units can fly over almost anything to get to where their going.
@Young:
@Cmdr:
Do you have to declare war on a neutral to NCM over it as well? I said yes, since you are violating their airspace and we went with it, but a clear decision would be great so I can either go and say “hey, I was wrong, sorry” or “yea, we got that right.” (For that matter, for a combat move too?)
Thats usually how it goes (what ever makes sense, and than find out later), I am also interested in this one, because air units can fly over almost anything to get to where their going.
Yes. The issue was this:
Germany can send a strategic bomber to Gibraltar to bomb the Naval Base there. With England gone (yea, we do that EVERY GAME) there would be no one to repair the base (it was never captured). However, they would have to fly over Spain to get the bomber there and have enough movement points to get to a safe Axis territory (West or South France from W. Germany.)
We said it did require a DOW and thus the base was not attacked. The game could have been significantly different if the British were denied a can open for the Americans - the Germans could have built units in Germany, instead of W. Germany.
@Cmdr:
@Young:
@Cmdr:
Do you have to declare war on a neutral to NCM over it as well? I said yes, since you are violating their airspace and we went with it, but a clear decision would be great so I can either go and say “hey, I was wrong, sorry” or “yea, we got that right.” (For that matter, for a combat move too?)
Thats usually how it goes (what ever makes sense, and than find out later), I am also interested in this one, because air units can fly over almost anything to get to where their going.
Yes. The issue was this:
Germany can send a strategic bomber to Gibraltar to bomb the Naval Base there. With England gone (yea, we do that EVERY GAME) there would be no one to repair the base (it was never captured). However, they would have to fly over Spain to get the bomber there and have enough movement points to get to a safe Axis territory (West or South France from W. Germany.)
We said it did require a DOW and thus the base was not attacked. The game could have been significantly different if the British were denied a can open for the Americans - the Germans could have built units in Germany, instead of W. Germany.
Interesting, we have never flown over Spain, because we assume it is illegal, quite a turn about if we can.
Exactly. Especially with how easily it is to abuse England, this could - potentially - be a lifeline for the Axis in Europe if the Allies gun for them there. Thing is, this is a TRUE neutral, if it was Pro-an Alliance, I wouldn’t worry about it, it’s basically a hostile nation that has not been asked to join an alliance yet.
Hang on, it IS illegal, right?
@special:
Hang on, it IS illegal, right?
at this point yes, but it seems that all the deputies are at the salon.
@Young:
@special:
Hang on, it IS illegal, right?
at this point yes, but it seems that all the deputies are at the salon.
tssssss opening my solstice cider… edit: Wait. Salon? not Saloon? How dare you sir, my bedhead needs no professional attention and my nails are immaculate
I could be wrong, and Krieg may correct me, but…
It’s my understanding that you don’t declare war on powers that aren’t player powers. We’ve never required a declaration of war as japan to attack the Dutch colonies - attacking dutch colonies simply allows the UK and US to declare war on Japan.
Similarly, one does not “declare war” on a neutral. You either have to ATTACK the neutral, or you ignore it. And if you don’t ATTACK a neutral, it doesn’t activate. And if it doesn’t activate, it’s not an enemy power and it is still a neutral. And since even a friendly or unfriendly neutral is still neutral and cannot be over flown… etc etc etc. Hope you see where this is going.
Germany would need to actually ATTACK spain with a unit, not just declare hostile intentions and overfly. And during the combat move, any plane moving into spain would stop and attack as neutrals can’t be overflown, only attacked. However, if Germany attacked Spain during the combat phase, even if it was with a single infantry, a plane could overfly during the noncombat phase.
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What he said.
OK, now that my hair is done…
Bottom line, as kcd said:
You can’t fly over neutrals of any type - pro-you, pro-them, or strict neutral. You can only fly over them after they are no longer neutral, which may be as early as your non-combat movement phase.
Jenn, you might consider reading the rulebook from beginning to end. Really. You’ll find it very interesting - it’s not boring to read when you play it as much as you do. For instance, you would have benefitted (as would your opponents) from reading the following, instead of just guessing:
Page #10, under “friendly neutrals”: “Friendly neutrals may not be attacked, and air units may not fly over them. They can be moved into (but not through) as a noncombat move by land units of a power that is at war…”
Page #11, under “unfriendly neutrals”: “Air units can’t fly over an unfriendly neutral unless they are attacking it”
Page #11, under “strict neutrals”: “Strict neutrals are treated in exactly the same was as unfriendly neutrals, with one exception… (all of them turn against you when you attack)”
You can’t fly over any neutrals under any circumstances (as long as they are “neutral”) - not even friendly ones.
OK, now that my hair is done…
Bottom line, as kcd said:
You can’t fly over neutrals of any type - pro-you, pro-them, or strict neutral. You can only fly over them after they are no longer neutral, which may be as early as your non-combat movement phase.Jenn, you might consider reading the rulebook from beginning to end. Really. You’ll find it very interesting - it’s not boring to read when you play it as much as you do. For instance, you would have benefitted (as would your opponents) from reading the following, instead of just guessing:
Page #10, under “friendly neutrals”: “Friendly neutrals may not be attacked, and air units may not fly over them. They can be moved into (but not through) as a noncombat move by land units of a power that is at war…”
Page #11, under “unfriendly neutrals”: “Air units can’t fly over an unfriendly neutral unless they are attacking it”
Page #11, under “strict neutrals”: “Strict neutrals are treated in exactly the same was as unfriendly neutrals, with one exception… (all of them turn against you when you attack)”You can’t fly over any neutrals under any circumstances (as long as they are “neutral”) - not even friendly ones.
Oh snap!
@Young:
Questions about the Mongolian rule,
1. If japanese units attack a Russian territory adjacent to Mongolia (Amur), and a Mongolian territory (Buyant- Uhaa) in the same combat movement phase, is the strict neutral rule activated, or the Mongolian rule?
2. If Russian units attack Japanese units in the Chinese territory of Kansu is the Mongolian rule still active or does it become neutralized?
3. If Russian units attack Japanese units in Kazakhstan, is the Mongolian rule still active or does it become neutralized?
Any quotes from the rule book regarding this question I asked earlier?
@Young:
@Young:
Questions about the Mongolian rule,
1. If japanese units attack a Russian territory adjacent to Mongolia (Amur), and a Mongolian territory (Buyant- Uhaa) in the same combat movement phase, is the strict neutral rule activated, or the Mongolian rule?
2. If Russian units attack Japanese units in the Chinese territory of Kansu is the Mongolian rule still active or does it become neutralized?
3. If Russian units attack Japanese units in Kazakhstan, is the Mongolian rule still active or does it become neutralized?
Any quotes from the rule book regarding this question I asked earlier?
There wouldn’t be pages in the rule book.
1. Strict neutral rule is activated - Japan should never attack both mongolia and soviet territories that border mongolia in the same turn, as the strict neutral rule supercedes.
2. The rule is neutralized, as it is a japanese controlled territory that borders a Mongolian territory.
3. The rule is still active, as Kazakhstan does not border Mongolia.
That was extremely helpful. Thanks.
A couple of clarifications:
It’s my understanding that you don’t declare war on powers that aren’t player powers. We’ve never required a declaration of war as japan to attack the Dutch colonies - attacking dutch colonies simply allows the UK and US to declare war on Japan.
It’s true that you don’t declare war on neutral territories - you simply attack them. You only declare war on powers.
However, the Dutch territories are not neutral. They are a special case, and are under the protection of UK/ANZAC. One must declare war on UK/ANZAC before attacking Dutch territories.
1. Strict neutral rule is activated - Japan should never attack both mongolia and soviet territories that border mongolia in the same turn, as the strict neutral rule supercedes.
If Japan attacks both a Mongolian territory and a Soviet territory bordering Mongolia in the same turn, the Mongolian territories are still strict neutral at the time of the attack (they don’t join the USSR until the end of the Combat Move phase). As a result, all strict neutrals (including Mongolian territories that were not attacked) immediately become pro-Allies. However, per the Soviet/Japanese Non Aggression Pact rule, at the end of the Japanese Combat Move phase the Mongolian territories that are still neutral (were not captured by Japan) become Soviet-controlled.
The end result of all this is that:
The Mongolian territories that were attacked by Japan and captured are Japanese-controlled.
The Mongolian territories that were attacked by Japan and not captured are Soviet-controlled.
The Mongolian territories that were not attacked by Japan are Soviet-controlled.
Krieghund,
I know you and Larry are working on the rules for the 2nd print run of the game. I ask that you specifically put in the rules the example you just outlined: What happens when Japan attacks a neutral Mongolian territory and Soviet territory bordering Mongolia in the same turn. I had that same question and everyone I have talked to who hadn’t read your post first had it too. Just a suggestion since Mongolia has some special rules attached to it and we were not at all certain when the Mongolian specific rules trumped the neutrals in general and vice-versa.
Thank you.
For the record, I burned one of my copies of the rulebook last night in the fireplace. (Needed to make sure it was working for Christmas.) Now, maybe, Gamerman will stop telling me to go read it! :P (Yes I did it out of spite, no this does not mean I dont have rules, I have like 5 copies of the game, 2 opened so I have a rule book, I can just honestly say it’s in a different building than I am now - cause it’s at work.)
@Cmdr:
For the record, I burned one of my copies of the rulebook last night in the fireplace. (Needed to make sure it was working for Christmas.) Now, maybe, Gamerman will stop telling me to go read it! :P (Yes I did it out of spite, no this does not mean I dont have rules, I have like 5 copies of the game, 2 opened so I have a rule book, I can just honestly say it’s in a different building than I am now - cause it’s at work.)
If that were a 100 page hardcover A&A players handbook from WOTC, complete with world atlas, 4 page profiles for each unit, many colored battle diagrams, and a 1 hour DVD instrutional video, it would have burned all month (just sayin).
