3. Are the US bombers prohibited from flying over Spain during the noncombat move of the turn Spain was attacked?
3. Yes, if Spain is not captured. EDIT POINT: Actually, not sure about this one. Technically Spain isn’t an Axis power, but according the logic of the rules, Spain is “at war” in that the US had to declare war on it in order to invade. So, is it a pro-axis neutral with regards to how Germany would gain infantry, but a power at war with regards to movement? Krieg?
US air units may overfly Spain in noncombat movement whether or not Spain is captured. Spain’s neutrality is violated immediately upon the US attack (during combat movement), and it will join the Axis immediately if the attack fails. It will be treated as part of the Axis for political purposes, and as a pro-Axis neutral for the purposes of annexation by Axis powers.
3. Are the US bombers prohibited from flying over Spain during the noncombat move of the turn Spain was attacked?
3. Yes, if Spain is not captured. EDIT POINT: Actually, not sure about this one. Technically Spain isn’t an Axis power, but according the logic of the rules, Spain is “at war” in that the US had to declare war on it in order to invade. So, is it a pro-axis neutral with regards to how Germany would gain infantry, but a power at war with regards to movement? Krieg?
US air units may overfly Spain in noncombat movement whether or not Spain is captured. Spain’s neutrality is violated immediately upon the US attack (during combat movement), and it will join the Axis immediately if the attack fails. It will be treated as part of the Axis for political purposes, and as a pro-Axis neutral for the purposes of annexation by Axis powers.
Can it be overflown during the combat move phase, as the declaration of war is prior to all movements, and the the neutrality is violated with the DOW? Does a power need to even attack, or can they declare war just to get a flyover?
Didn’t you already answer this? :wink: (I see you edited your answer, but you were right the first time.)
Declarations of war are only made against powers. There are no declarations of war against neutral territories - only attacks. Air units may not overfly a neutral territory in the same combat movement phase in which the territory is attacked. As a general rule, when any unit (land or air) enters a neutral territory, it must stop.
US air units may overfly Spain in noncombat movement whether or not Spain is captured. Spain’s neutrality is violated immediately upon the US attack (during combat movement), and it will join the Axis immediately if the attack fails. It will be treated as part of the Axis for political purposes, and as a pro-Axis neutral for the purposes of annexation by Axis powers.
I thought you couldn’t fly over pro-Axis or pro-Allied neutrals, though.
So if USA attacks Colombia (a true neutral - for purposes of illustration), then all other true neutrals in the world immediately become pro-Axis. You’re saying the Axis and Allies can fly over any pro-Axis country (including Spain) now that they are pro-Axis?
I thought you couldn’t fly over pro-Axis or pro-Allied neutrals, though.
That’s right, you can’t.
So if USA attacks Colombia (a true neutral - for purposes of illustration), then all other true neutrals in the world immediately become pro-Axis. You’re saying the Axis and Allies can fly over any pro-Axis country (including Spain) now that they are pro-Axis?
No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that they can fly over Colombia, becuase it’s now allied with the Axis.
I thought you couldn’t fly over pro-Axis or pro-Allied neutrals, though.
That’s right, you can’t.
So if USA attacks Colombia (a true neutral - for purposes of illustration), then all other true neutrals in the world immediately become pro-Axis. You’re saying the Axis and Allies can fly over any pro-Axis country (including Spain) now that they are pro-Axis?
No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that they can fly over Colombia, becuase it’s now allied with the Axis.
There is still some confusion. What’s the difference between Colombia being pro-Axis (which it wouldn’t be because there is no defense - it would become American) and Spain?
If USA invades Colombia with ground units, it is then controlled by America and all other (assuming America is the first power to invade a true neutral) true neutrals become pro-Axis. No aircraft from either side can fly over true neutrals like Turkey and Spain, still. But if you invade a true neutral that has a standing army, and you don’t take over the country, you’re saying that then any power is able to fly over that invaded country, that is now pro-Axis? (for example) If that’s the case, you would have to keep track of which pro-Axis (formerly true neutral) countries have been invaded and which haven’t. See? I’m confused! :-)
Quotes in maroon color:
“There is still some confusion. What’s the difference between Colombia being pro-Axis (which it wouldn’t be because there is no defense - it would become American) and Spain?”
He has answered this in the past when I asked about landing UK fighters in Greece to hit Italy round 1 following a failed capture attempt by Germany g1. If you(an axis player) invade a neutral and fail to capture it; it joins the other side (the allies). It is not pro-allied, it is an ally, like Dutch territories are. Dutch territories are landing sites for allied planes regardless of which ally currently controls it…In the case of Spain, a true neutral, if not captured by the US it joins the Axis, however the other true neutrals now lose true neutral status and become pro-axis neutrals.
“Hopefully, he realizes that US bombers cannot be in Suriname while the US is neutral. It wasn’t specifically addressed, but I assumed that the US was at war at least one turn prior to the conditions of his question.”
Also, in my scenario it is turn 5, not mentioned, and the US is at war as inferred by the “land in US occupied Holland” meaning, the US already had Holland the turn prior. Taking over Spain is not such a big deal for the allies if you are camped next to West Germany already. I was looking for a way to redeploy bombers based in Hawaii in Europe the following turn for action against France….was hoping to attack Spain to permit immediate use of bombers but I see that is not legal currently.
But if you invade a true neutral that has a standing army, and you don’t take over the country, you’re saying that then any power is able to fly over that invaded country, that is now pro-Axis? (for example)
It’s not _pro-_Axis. It has joined the Axis. That’s the difference.
If that’s the case, you would have to keep track of which pro-Axis (formerly true neutral) countries have been invaded and which haven’t.
Yes, you do. Per the Rulebook, you place an upside-down control marker on such territories to indicate their status until such time as one of their new allies claims them by moving a land unit into them in noncombat movement.
If you(an axis player) invade a neutral and fail to capture it; it joins the other side (the allies). It is not pro-allied, it is an ally, like Dutch territories are.
I never picked up on this before. Thanks for clearly pointing it out, James.
So if you attack a true neutral, it is no longer neutral, it joins the other side. All the OTHER true neutrals in the world are still neutral, but become pro-enemy Alliance, so their “no-fly zones” are still in force. But the invaded true neutral is now “in play”. So your enemies could then move ground and/or air forces into the attacked country, as it is no longer neutral. However, until the opposing side moves ground forces into said territory, no playable power controls the attacked territory and no one collects income from it until conquered or claimed by ground forces, as applicable. Got it now, then.
If you(an axis player) invade a neutral and fail to capture it; it joins the other side (the allies). It is not pro-allied, it is an ally, like Dutch territories are.
I never picked up on this before. Thanks for clearly pointing it out, James.
So if you attack a true neutral, it is no longer neutral, it joins the other side. All the OTHER true neutrals in the world are still neutral, but become pro-enemy Alliance, so their “no-fly zones” are still in force. But the invaded true neutral is now “in play”. So your enemies could then move ground and/or air forces into the attacked country, as it is no longer neutral. However, until the opposing side moves ground forces into said territory, no playable power controls the attacked territory and no one collects income from it until conquered or claimed by ground forces, as applicable. Got it now, then.
Then, by extension, you are permitted to fly over a true neutral, it just joins the enemy if you do so. (And all of it’s buddies are pissed at you too.) ?
@Cmdr:
Then, by extension, you are permitted to fly over a true neutral, it just joins the enemy if you do so. (And all of it’s buddies are pissed at you too.) ?
Oooo - good question. I should probably stop answering G40 questions esp since I haven’t been playing it, but I can’t resist. I’m quite sure you can’t fly over any neutrals while they are neutral, period.
The only “no-no” flyover you can do, is UK/ANZAC can fly over Chinese territory when UK/ANZ is still neutral towards Japan, which is considered an act of war by Japan (allows Japan to DOW on UK/ANZ without giving the US a chance to DOW on Japan)….
I’m quite sure you can’t fly over any neutrals while they are neutral, period.
Correct.
The only “no-no” flyover you can do, is UK/ANZAC can fly over Chinese territory when UK/ANZ is still neutral towards Japan, which is considered an act of war by Japan (allows Japan to DOW on UK/ANZ without giving the US a chance to DOW on Japan)….
Not exactly. Any Allied power must be at war with Japan before it can fly over Chinese territories.
I’m quite sure you can’t fly over any neutrals while they are neutral, period.
Correct.
The only “no-no” flyover you can do, is UK/ANZAC can fly over Chinese territory when UK/ANZ is still neutral towards Japan, which is considered an act of war by Japan (allows Japan to DOW on UK/ANZ without giving the US a chance to DOW on Japan)….
Not exactly. Any Allied power must be at war with Japan before it can fly over Chinese territories.
British land units can enter China when the UK is not at war with Japan, but it will lead to a provoked declaration of war by Japan as I understood. So a land unit can enter China but an air unit cannot?
No. Any Allied power must be at war with Japan before it can move any units into or through Chinese territories.
Thanks again, Krieghund! So great to have you here straightening things out for us on a regular basis!
For the kamikazee strikes, can they be used if the US is doing a combat amphib in one of the designated see zones, but there is no ground unit defending? … a walk-in, in other words.
They can target dd,cv,ca,BB’s in that zone, a smart USA player simply sends the transport during combat to “walk” in and then noncombats the navy there.
Kamikaze’s don’t target subs or transports, so they will not disrupt the landing if I understand correctly.
While India is not at war with Japan, can Russia move from Szechwan to Burma during non combat moves while Russia is at war with Japan in China?
They can target dd,cv,ca,BB’s in that zone, a smart USA player simply sends the transport during combat to “walk” in and then noncombats the navy there.
Kamikaze’s don’t target subs or transports, so they will not disrupt the landing if I understand correctly.
Exactly right.
But if there was defending fleet in the zone, then the American player would send in combat ships, and if there are surface combat ships moving in during combat movement, then kamikazes can attack them in the appopriate zones.
While India is not at war with Japan, can Russia move from Szechwan to Burma during non combat moves while Russia is at war with Japan in China?
Yes, because the UK is at war with Germany and Italy (is not a neutral).
