Warlords of Europe

Not to sidetrack this discussion, but on your Barbarossa game the site talks about optional rules but these are not found. Can you reprint them here or in another thread?

I play that game and i find it really fun. I hope you can redo that game next using FMG pieces ( they are redoing the entire line of AA style pieces)

A nice map of the 1941-45 conflict on thick cardboard and nice tokens… people would pay big bucks for that.

@Imperious:

Flashman:

make the proper roundels for these nations based on 100 years war.

I am making them and they will look like shields ( coat of arms)

Make one for each section ( total 6)

I know you have some knowledge of this period. re-naming the territories offers nothing because the map is already done.

I am gonna make some nifty house rules:

1. black death
2. adding kings
3. fleets
4. alternative mercenary rules
5. crusades
6. neutral armies
7. ?

I’m fooling around with adding my “Age of Mythology” miniatures to the base set of this game. Not sure what angle to take yet but it should be interesting.

@allworkandnoclay:

I’m fooling around with adding my “Age of Mythology” miniatures to the base set of this game. Not sure what angle to take yet but it should be interesting.

Are you going to paint those too.

@Brain:

@allworkandnoclay:

I’m fooling around with adding my “Age of Mythology” miniatures to the base set of this game. Not sure what angle to take yet but it should be interesting.

Are you going to paint those too.

It’s #8 on the list heh. ‘War of the Rings’ is next.

@allworkandnoclay:

It’s #8 on the list heh. ‘War of the Rings’ is next.

Have you seen the collector’s edition of War of the Ring?

@Brain:

@allworkandnoclay:

It’s #8 on the list heh. ‘War of the Rings’ is next.

Have you seen the collector’s edition of War of the Ring?

Yea - my paint job will be better than those. I also plan on sculpting my own figures for the game (Gollem, Gandolf the White, etc) and a few of the cities/strongholds from the game.

…But back on topic - Warlords of Europe: awesome game.

By Hundred Years War, I assume you mean the period circa 1337 to 1453.  A lot changed in this period, for example the Kings of England quartered their arms with those of France when they claimed the French Crown.

It’s really anachronistic to describe these powers as “nations” at this time, as they were really more like extensions of Royal Courts, which frequently cut across ethnic and language boundaries.

I appreciate the need for game balance in map design, but my interest in history and board games go hand in hand, and for me as primarily a historian there should always be a way to accommodate historical accuracy into the game without ending up playing on a chessboard.  I live in Northumbria, and the idea of it bordering Champagne to me is rather like Iowa bordering Japan.

Attached an example of the heraldic flags I draw relevant to the HYW, though you’ll be aware that WOE is set in a rather earlier period.

For me the depiction of this era as an elaborate Risk variant misses out the most interesting element of medieval politics - you couldn’t just walk into a neighbour’s territory and take it over by force.  There had to be some kind of legal claim, usually one based on blood, i.e. hereditary descent.  This is what my Warriors of the Roses system does; it provides a justification for violence.  A European version would be possible; the nearest I’ve seen to this is Blood Royal, but that involved too much paperwork.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/248/blood-royale

My system tracks the dynastic side of things purely with cards.

these are only English. need all the others including Russia and italy

Mmmm, problem is - what is “Italy” at this time?

The Italian nation didn’t exist until 1870.

Castille and Aragon didn’t unite (note: a dynastic union, not a conquest) until the 15th century, long after this game is set.  Of course for game purposes it’s convenient to retro-create modern states, but it’s impossible to create accurate heraldry for fictional entities.

The modern arms of a united Spain quarter the arms of the various constituent Kingdoms, but quartered arms won’t show up too well on smallish shieldels.

France changed it’s arms circ 1400 from azure semee of lilies or to azure 3 lillies or.

Some old French flags of mine - need redoing.

Note that these are 15th C, so only 3 lillies and the flags are now square.

Or would you prefer 3 croissants or?  :wink:

This is a reasonable map of the period when the HYW began - you can see the problem with “Italy”.

http://historymedren.about.com/library/atlas/natmapeur1346.htm

You could reasonably use Castille for Spain, i.e

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Castile_Arms.svg

Denmark:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:COA_of_Denmark.svg

(use yellow instead of the rather silly “gold”.)

Germany (HRE):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Holy_Roman_Empire_Arms-single_head.svg

(note the Eagle became double-headed after 1368)

Russia at this time was a host of petty kingdoms; but the genesis of the Russian state lay in the Rulers of Muscovy whose arms were:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coat_of_Arms_of_Moscow.svg

or if you prefer Kiev take your pick of these:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Coats_of_arms_of_Kievan_Rus

Hungary, House of Arpad is barry of 8 gules and argent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hungary_Arms.svg

As for “Latin Empire”; this is presumably the late Byzantines, barely clinging on to Constantinople:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Palaiologos-Dynasty-Eagle.svg

In the game officially (as it’s in an earlier period) this may refer to the Crusader Empire:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Empire

For Italy maybe the Kingdom of Sicily, but this was a variant on the Aragonese arms since Sicily was ruled by a junior branch of Aragon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aragon-Sicily_Arms.svg

Charles of Anjou founded the Kingdom of Naples, but the arms were again those of a junior branch, this time of the French house. He later impaled these with the arms of Jerusalem to form this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Armoiries_Anjou_Jérusalem.svg

But it really isn’t remotely Italian.

Lastly you might consider the arms of Savoy, whose Duke founded the modern Kingdom of Italy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Blason_duche_fr_Savoie.svg

Bear in mind that there is a difference between “national” flags and the “arms” of the Kingdom; for example the FLAG of England is the Saint George Cross, while the ARMS of the Kingdom of England are the 3 gold lions on red (though in fact they’re actually derived from the lions on the arms of Normandy, Aquitaine and Anjou from where the medieval Kings of England originated, so they are really French lions.)

Edit:

Do you know what the figs you intend to use are, or are there pics of them anywhere?

I might be able to do some flags for the Warlord pieces to match the shieldels, or maybe to fly from the castle tops.

Each castle should have a flag on top and each “kingdom” would get some NA’s that give it flavor and not just another risk set of pieces.

The flag would be for the starting castle and id like to use tokens rather than leaving a garrison ( like risk). BY the term Italy, i just mean the locality of what existed in that area, though like the holy roman empire, it was probably a fragmented assortment of fiefdoms.  Perhaps at some points in the game players would have to send troops to fight the crusades and Italy or another might control this expedition.

Hey Russ,

I am curious, do you still have any copies of High Ground available? By the way I love Warlords & I think you guys at Conquest Gaming did some great things with the basic A&A turn system.

I know the game is called Warlords of Europe, but I’d also be tempted to extend the map to include the entire Mediterranean seaboard with 3 or 4 Muslim Kingdoms added.  You could always make these areas off-limits if it makes the map too big.

I would also tend to make Poland a Kingdom, rather than the very fragmented Russian states, unless extending the map further east.  Especially so for a “100 Years War Period” game, where it can be merged into Poland-Lithuania:

Poland’s arms are of course:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coat_of_arms_of_Poland-official.png

Reading through the rules I seem to have missed something:

If a player without a castle captures a Warlord, do they

1. Carry him around in a wicker cage,

2. Behead him in the market square,

3. Send him home to Mom riding an a** backwards.

For expanding with plastic figs HaT’s El Cid series are looking pretty good, especially if wanting to add Muslim players:

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/FirstLook.aspx?id=1440

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/FirstLook.aspx?id=1459

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/FirstLook.aspx?id=1467

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=1451

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=1436

These sets are just being produced; there really haven’t been reasonable figs for this period until now.

Edit: Apparently I’m not allowed to say “ass”, by which of course I meant a horse/donkey crossbreed.  Perhaps this means something else to you Americans.

Italy really should not be a player Kingdom, just a collection of independent Feifs.  Even Aragon would be more viable as a major power.

Found some Moor.  :wink:

http://www.hat.com/Curr2/Bx8215AndHC/Bx8215AndHCm.html

http://www.hat.com/Curr2/Bx8214AndLC/Bx8214AndLCm.html

http://www.hat.com/Prev/Elcidc/Sp_com.html

http://www.hat.com/Prev/Elcidc/Mo_com.html

That last set has a very nice ass in it.

working on it. Good info.

Just a few more thoughts on the board;

I’d prefer an icon donating Gold value on each province; I know you can tell by terrain type, but numbers are more convenient.

Also, I would be pretty confident of finding appropriate arms for each province on the map.  Decoration, perhaps, but it would add to the medieval flavour; and can be used in custom rules such as assigning Warlords or Knights as “Governors” of particular fiefs as per Blood Royal.

Incidentally I can 't read all the names on the map, does anyone have a complete list?

Has anyone playing the game thought it may accommodate more players?  That is, eliminate all the mopping up of “peasant” fiefs and get straight to the player v player action.

My own inheritance rules could be utilised in a simplified form here, but it would need each player to add a “King” piece to his set.

You’d have to stomach the idea of arranging marriages as part of a wargame, though…

And Italy really shouldn’t be a player Kingdom.  As Metternich said, Italy is merely a geographical expression.  See it as a group of rich neutral provinces for the others to fight over.  Historically correct, anyway.

I like the idea of also using those pieces for a tang Chinese based game with the battles against the Khitans and old day Korea. Dae Jo Young is one of my favorite shows with plenty of great battles. Check it out on you tube. I watched the entire show on KBS ( subtitles in English)

Another thought on Warlords:

The Feudal System

Instead of “buying” Knights and Warlords, the number you have depends on the number of fiefs and castles you own.
There is no need to pay for these units as they fight by feudal service.

Each fief needs it’s own knight piece (with heraldry to match that of the fief). When you take over a fief you get the relevant piece as it is now bound to you by knight’s service.  Control of these pieces is indicated by colour of the foot units with it; unaccompanied knights are automatically captured.  A Knight/Warlord gets a combat bonus defending his fief/castle.

Also, shouldn’t mountains impede movement?