The Spanish Beachhead: American Strategy

[MarshmallowofWar]

@Amalec:

Japan starts with 4 destroyers, and has had no reason to use or commit them elsewhere up to this point. It also has an enormous fleet that is effectively unchallenged. It should be able to kill 3-4 subs per turn with those destroyers and protect them afterward, with little to no loses to itself. I don’t think that’s going to work for USA unless it has a large enough fleet to counter attacks on it’s subs in range - and I don’t think it’ll be able to do that until turn 5-6 after moving the Pacific fleet to the Atlantic. Plenty of time for Japan to go crazy.

It would be foolish of Japan to detach all its destroyers from its fleet if the US is playing sub swarm though. Furthermore, if Japan is protecting its destroyers Japan has definitely got its priorities wrong and is not using its fleet to achieve victory but to stave off defeat. Allied victory this is!

Marsh

[Amalec]

@Marshmallow:

It would be foolish of Japan to detach all its destroyers from its fleet if the US is playing sub swarm though. Furthermore, if Japan is protecting its destroyers Japan has definitely got its priorities wrong and is not using its fleet to achieve victory but to stave off defeat. Allied victory this is!

Marsh

Sub-swarm is a bit of a misnomer here. YG is advocating no Pacific build until A4. That leaves 2 DD 1 SS 1SB in the Pacific until the end of A4, and 4 DD 5 SS 3SB at the start of A5. A5 those can move to Hawaii - if America stills controls it (big if) and Japan doesn’t have enough ships staged in Japan or the Carolines to kill a handful of 1s and 2s parked off Hawaii (bigger if). A6 they can begin to harass Japan, supported by America’s A5 Pacific builds now in Hawaii - which will be at best 2 more subs because of the 60+ IPC needed to build 20 units for the Atlantic transports on A5.

By J7 when those subs have their first chance to raid Japan the Dutch money islands will be securely Japanese and the British/ANZAC fleets will be destroyed or contained.

I’m not saying sub-swarm is a bad idea, or that KGF is a bad idea. But if you send most of the Pacific fleet to the Atlantic and don’t build anything else until A4 then you’re simply praying for the Japanese player to be terrible, because if he isn’t he’s going to win the game on VCs before Germany even starts to sweat.

Keeping the Pacific fleet intact and adding 2-3 SS/DDs a turn is absolutely necessary to keep Japan honest. Without it they barely have to defend their builds in the Sea of Japan, so they can go all out elsewhere. They can easily take Hawaii. They can split their fleet into pieces to move against India and Australia at the same time, instead of having to choose.

[Young Grasshopper]

By no means is my Spanish Beachhead strategy video a finished work, I have already seen many posts with much better modifications to my initial ideas. The sub sprawl ideas were in their infancy when I did the video, since than there have been many great concepts by others to make it work better. Thanks for all the participation on this topic.

[Kreuzfeld]

I agree with the other commenters, the pacific board need more development. You need a plan to prevent japan from taking more than 1 of Hawaii, Sidney and India.  There is a few ways of defending it.
Hawaii:
If you really want to defend hawaii, you need to stack it. That can be done by TTs and infs. They are well placed there and can be used later when you go on the offensive.

India:
3 UK mIC in Egypt, Iraq and Iran should allow you to produce a lot of mechs and some planes in that area. It is vital to keep them close enough, so that you can send them to india in time to defend india. This does not work against an india crush ofc. If enough preassure is taken of USSR , then the red airfoce is a nice addition to the indian defence while waiting for some USSR mobile forces and other british support. Some of the US/UK fighters on the CVs in the med could also make an appearance.

Sidney:
BUILD ALOT OF troops, help isnt coming :/. This means that you probably should make sure to build 3 units every single turn, and none of then should be naval or bombers.

@Amalec:

@Marshmallow:

To my thinking the whole point is to relieve pressure on Russia as fast as possible. If the Axis accumlates a stack big enough to attack your landing, pressure on Russia is effectively relieved. So you actually want the German player to hit your stack because if he’s hitting Spain he’s not hitting Russia effectively. Furthermore, Axis logistics being what they are, it’s difficult for him to keep hitting Spain without continuous builds that have to walk a long way, so hitting your forces in Spain would actually make it easier for the US to advance in Europe.

In retrospect, it should be pretty obvious from the state of the board whether Germany can counter a 20 division drop into Spain on their upcoming turn. But I would argue that if those units are already in position to attack Spain on the following German turn the pressure against Russia has already been relieved - no reason to let them actually attack you. Still, most likely Germany won’t be in position to counter and so a direct landing in Spain will make sense 9/10 times. My bad.

After watching the youtubevideo of bulawdog  I could see that he did exactly this mistake.

It seems like YG should have stated it in his script.

US4: look at the map;
If you look at the board and conclude that germany will kill your beachhead comfortably, then you have to land in gibraltar on US4.

US5: Look at the map;
3 options; 1, no attack,2 attack spain, 3 attack somewhere else
If germany can still kill you, and have enough units to defend against your counterattack, then you cannot attack spain. If you see a good target of opertunity (N/S italy or W germany) you can attack there.  Otherwise, keep your army in GIB.

US6: Look at the map;
If you sendt your fleet back, your attack on spain should now be at least 44 units strong, and you hsould have 40ish units left. Germany should never be able to counterattack that. If he is, then USSR is having a great day, and should have reinforced india a long time ago.

[simon33]

The only turn I allow Sydney to build less than 3 units is the first - 1TT 1inf.

[Tirano]

@simon33:

The only turn I allow Sydney to build less than 3 units is the first - 1TT 1inf.

Even if a full KJF is in effect, or specifically for a Spanish Beachhead?

[simon33]

Any time.

[Bass]

I was wondering whether you decide from the outset to do the Spanish Beach Head or if there are Axis cues that make it a viable strategy?

This is firstly a q posed to YG but would of course greatly appreciate others input as well. :)

[Kreuzfeld]

Even tho I am not YG, I will make a suggestion (with any strategy). You should always reconsider your strategy.

In every turn, you should decide if you will continue with the strategy or do something else.  For example, If germany tries for sealion, but has to stop because he loses too many planes in G1, then you really don’t need that many boats. If germany drops 10 subs on G2, then you need more boats, perhaps, you should bail out and do a KJF instead. What you should not do is to continue with your Spanish beachhead, only to see your fleet get killed by the german navy.

Any strategy worth considering is a strategy that keeps enough options open to react to enemy moves. In the Spanish beachhead, you don’t have to commit until shifting your pacific fleet to the atlantic (US3). until then, you have just bought a little bit extra for the german front early and can still switch to a full KJF. You can even switch your atlantic fleet to the pacific if you like.

[Bass]

@Kreuzfeld:

Even tho I am not YG, I will make a suggestion (with any strategy). You should always reconsider your strategy.

In every turn, you should decide if you will continue with the strategy or do something else.  For example, If germany tries for sealion, but has to stop because he loses too many planes in G1, then you really don’t need that many boats. If germany drops 10 subs on G2, then you need more boats, perhaps, you should bail out and do a KJF instead. What you should not do is to continue with your Spanish beachhead, only to see your fleet get killed by the german navy.

Any strategy worth considering is a strategy that keeps enough options open to react to enemy moves. In the Spanish beachhead, you don’t have to commit until shifting your pacific fleet to the atlantic (US3). until then, you have just bought a little bit extra for the german front early and can still switch to a full KJF. You can even switch your atlantic fleet to the pacific if you like.

Thanks for your reply, Kreuzfeld. I agree wholeheartedly with your opinion that strategies need to be flexible. It asbolutely depends on your opponent and the outcomes of different battles. I haven’t played much G40 but have been playing A&A since the early 90’s and have a hard time seeing Spanish Beachhead as a net positive move for the Allies. (This might change with a bid or Victory objectives of CB)

[Young Grasshopper]

@Bass:

I was wondering whether you decide from the outset to do the Spanish Beach Head or if there are Axis cues that make it a viable strategy?

This is firstly a q posed to YG but would of course greatly appreciate others input as well. :)

All strategies should take a back seat to reactionary play, however, reactionary play alone is a lazy way to approach a game IMO. There’s nothing wrong with having 1 or 2 well thought out plans prepared ahead of time.

[simon33]

I think once you’ve converted the true neutrals to pro Axis you’re pretty committed to this play though. And who would position all those forces and not follow through with something. I guess you can use them to hit Norway as an alternative although that is an enormous back down.

[Young Grasshopper]

@simon33:

I think once you’ve converted the true neutrals to pro Axis you’re pretty committed to this play though. And who would position all those forces and not follow through with something. I guess you can use them to hit Norway as an alternative although that is an enormous back down.

Agreed, if you turn the neutrals with a Spanish beachhead, you’re all in at that point.

[Kreuzfeld]

@Bass:

I was wondering whether you decide from the outset to do the Spanish Beach Head or if there are Axis cues that make it a viable strategy?

This is firstly a q posed to YG but would of course greatly appreciate others input as well. :)

I can see that people might not have answered this question fully :).

I think this is looks like a good strategy that I might want to try out as a main allied battleplan. It sort of gives the allied about 80 IPC of extrra materials (since you will have an extra US turn of production at the front at any time after US4).

I would guess that a J1 would make this a less viable strategy.  A sealion with a J1 would make you try to land on UK at US2 (to prevent the sealion).  I would not do this if I saw a J2, with a central pacific focus (carolines and attack on australia).  A J3/4 with Japanese mICs on the mainland and a barbarossa (germany buys all land on G2 and a maximum italian comittment in the east) is perhaps the ideal scenario for the spanish beachhead.

[Bass]

@Kreuzfeld:

@Bass:

I was wondering whether you decide from the outset to do the Spanish Beach Head or if there are Axis cues that make it a viable strategy?

This is firstly a q posed to YG but would of course greatly appreciate others input as well. :)

I can see that people might not have answered this question fully :).

I think this is looks like a good strategy that I might want to try out as a main allied battleplan. It sort of gives the allied about 80 IPC of extrra materials (since you will have an extra US turn of production at the front at any time after US4).

I would guess that a J1 would make this a less viable strategy.  A sealion with a J1 would make you try to land on UK at US2 (to prevent the sealion).  I would not do this if I saw a J2, with a central pacific focus (carolines and attack on australia).  A J3/4 with Japanese mICs on the mainland and a barbarossa (germany buys all land on G2 and a maximum italian comittment in the east) is perhaps the ideal scenario for the spanish beachhead.

Thanks (again) Kreuzfeld for answering my whole question! ;)

I would be very wary as an Allied player to turn the entire world (minus Mongolians) against me. As an Axis player I would love for my opponent to try this. At least with OOB-rules. Pretty sure I could turn it to my advantage. ;)

Perhaps better balance of power makes it a more viable strategy.

I’d love for there to be a G40 Enhanced Edition like the old Revised Enhanced 5.x. I appreciate the possibility of employing many different strategies and even making use of Tech which this game does not. A small set of National advantages to choose from would make for a more varied experience as well as being able to choose which Tech to get. Due to the great disparity in incomes, from Italy, ANZAC to USA there would have to be some sort of weigthing of the dice to account for this. F.E. Italy paying 3-4 IPC per dice and USA paying 10ish IPC. But I digress…

[A Former User]

@YoungGrasshopper:
Yery impressive strategy anyways, thanks to you! Btw, I really like your strategy videos!

[Young Grasshopper]

@hecatomb:

@YoungGrasshopper:
Yery impressive strategy anyways, thanks to you! Btw, I really like your strategy videos!

Thanks a lot hecatomb, I really appreciate that.

[Maxiheimer]

Hey young grasshopper,

I realize that it has been a while since this topic has last been replied to, but I have a game coming up and thought it would be fun to use the Spanish beach head strategy.
I remember watching your video when you posted it at think it is a great way to execute the Spanish beach head. Sadly it seems your video can no longer be accessed on youtube. Could you please re-upload it?

[Young Grasshopper]

@Maxiheimer:

Hey young grasshopper,

I realize that it has been a while since this topic has last been replied to, but I have a game coming up and thought it would be fun to use the Spanish beach head strategy.
I remember watching your video when you posted it at think it is a great way to execute the Spanish beach head. Sadly it seems your video can no longer be accessed on youtube. Could you please re-upload it?

Sorry Maxheimer, I no longer have it… perhaps you can give it a shot by doing some pre-game planning based on what you remember from the video.

[Fiera]

@Maxheimer:
This was how I did it (more or less)

1st  Round

Purchase: 50 IPC
1x Transport, 1x Destroyer (SZ101)
2x Infantry (CUS)
1x Submarine, 1x Carrier, 1x Transport (SZ10)

Move:

SZ35 -> SZ54
to Guam with 1x Fighter
to SZ10 with SZ26
to SZ10 with 2x Fighter (Hawaii)
to WUS with 1x Str. Bomber
to WUS with 1x Fighter (EUS) (because there was no German Submarine at SZ106)

2nd Round

Purchase: 53 IPC
4x Transport, 1x Carrier (SZ101)
3x Infantry (WUS)

Move:

SZ10 (except 1x Submarine and 2x Destroyer) -> SZ89
to Southeast Mexico with 2x Infantry, 1x Artillery (WUS)
to Wake Island with 1x Fighter (Guam)
to SZ101 with 1x Fighter (WUS)
to CUS with 2x Infantry, 1x Mech. Infantry (WUS)

3rd  Round

Purchase: 53 IPC
2x Transport, 1x Carrier, 2x Fighter (SZ101)
1x Infantry (CUS)

Move:

to SZ86 with 3x Transport
to Brazil with 2x Infantry, 1x Artillery (SE Mexico)
to SZ106 with the remaining Atlantic fleet
to Quebec with all ground (except AAA)
to WUS with 1x Fighter (Wake Island)
to CUS with 3x Infantry (WUS)
to SZ101 with 1x Fighter (EUS)

4th  Round

Purchase: 72 IPC
4x Submarine, 3x Destroyer (SZ10)
2x Str. Bomber (WUS)

Attack: on Spain with Quebec, Brazil, EUS, CUS (to SZ91 with SZ86, SZ101, SZ106)

5th  Round

Purchased 20 land units (EUS + CUS) but not yet a Minor IC in Spain, but this depends on the Axis play.