Question regarding aircraft carriers. Urgent.

[Machoking]

Hello there. New member. Just bought Global and I’m having 7 friends over today (in two hours). Therefore, I hope someone could answer this question quickly.
Regarding damaged aircraft carriers:

According to the rulebook (if a carrier gets attacked), any air units based on a carrier which takes a hit are considered cargo and cant defend (Europe 1940 2ed, page 32)

My question is: In which instances is this even possible? If a carrier gets attacked, any aircraft (including those belonging to a friendly power) participate in the battle. This means that all aircraft are already in the air, meaning they cant get trapped/be considered cargo. I dont see how this rule is ever relevant. Aircraft cant land on a damaged carrier anyway. How can they get trapped when they are already in the air?

Thanks in advance for any replies.  Glad to become a part of this community. And please: If you know the answer, please respond quickly. The guests will be here in two hours.

[Private-Panic]

Here’s a quick reply, since you need one, Machoking, although there are others on this forum who understand the rules better than I who may correct me.

Since air cannot land on a damaged carrier, the only air units on such a carrier must be “guest” planes belonging to an ally, which were aboard when the carrier sustained its damage and are then trapped on the carrier until it is repaired.

As you say that cannot happen if the carrier is defending, as the guest air unit would take off, participate in defense and then need to land, which it cannot do on a damaged carrier.

So it must have occurred in attack, when the guest plane is carried aboard the carrier as cargo and does not participate in the attack. See the Multinational Forces box on p20 of the Pacific 40 SE rulebook.

I hope that this helps.

Do enjoy your first game - and let us know how it goes.

Cheers
PP

[Machoking]

Thanks alot. :-) Kind of a confusing rulebook, as it talks about carrier that are attacked. I realize that attacking units also get attacked in return (when the defender rolls), but that was unnecesary confusing.

I’ll let you know how it went (there may be more questions coming later in the heat of battle  :lol:)

[variance]

Planes only become “cargo” in one rare situation:  When you attack and take damage on a carrier that has planes belonging to a friendly power on board.  Those planes don’t take part in the battle but if the carrier they are on gets damaged they are stuck on the carrier and can’t attack or defend until the carrier is repaired at a naval base.

To avoid this, don’t attack with a carrier holding friendly planes and then absorb a hit with that carrier!  It sounds like a dumb thing to do but sometimes it could be necessary.

[Machoking]

Well, had a great time yesterday. Game didnt bog down due to rule confusions. We also used Young Grasshoppers card deck, which made it easy to keep track of national objectives.

However, it was rather exhausting being the only player who knew the rules. This meant that I had to assist every player, often the enemy too. I also had to keep an eye on the gameboard at all times, to avoid people accidently making illegal moves. This was especially a problem with Japan, as it’s very hard to keep track of the planes (movement left after combat).

For simplicity, I didnt tell them about convoys and kamikaze rules.

Also, the rounds took longer than I expected. Some players are quick, others like to think over every possible dice roll  before finishing combat movement. I believe we made it to the 5th round before calling it the day. Do you guys play with a time limit? Perhaps a timelimit on combat movement and non combat movement to avoid this? Some players spent 40 minutes on their round, which led to some newcomers losing interest.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

I had tried once with a time limit and it destroyed the fun of the game.  One mistake due to a rushed move can change victory into defeat.  Instead, I refuse to play with the ridiculously slow guys.  Just don’t invite them to play if they have to spend 5 minutes deciding whether to roll the dice with the left hand or the right hand.  Games do speed up after more practice.  I highly recommend that your group plays TripleA games a few times (even against the computer AI) so that basic movement and tactics are accelerated.

In terms of keeping track of plane movement, put a die under the plane after it goes somewhere, with the number of pips representing residual movement points.  Best of luck in your future matches.

[Private-Panic]

@Machoking:

Well, had a great time yesterday.

That’s great to hear Machoking :-)

@Machoking:

However, it was rather exhausting being the only player who knew the rules…… Also, the rounds took longer than I expected … Some players spent 40 minutes on their round, which led to some newcomers losing interest.

You probably already know that you have taken your friends straight into the most complex version of A&A, which aggravates both your exhaustion and the slowness of some newbie players. Some see Global 40 as a weekend game, but I have just got home from a third day for one game that is still not finished.

The progression some of us take is 1941 (say an evening to play and the simplest version), then 1942.2 (a whole day and a half way house between 1941 and 1940 Global) and only then onto the big 'un.

Having taught 18 people to play 1941 I can recommend this approach. Of course many of those 18 do not progress to the more complex versions, which is an advantage as well as a disadvantage, because fewer players are lost to A&A altogether as they find the level that suits their interest.

[taamvan]

Another somewhat obscure (and to me, very contrary to the old game) use of the carrier rules?

You can land already existing planes on a just-built carrier!

1. planes may noncom to an empty sea zone, and wait in the air
2. while a fresh carrier is produced and rolled off the blocks
3. the planes then are allowed to land during the “place units” phase
4. even though this is not possible without the new carrier.

If I remember the rules, you cannot however place a newly created plane onto an already existing carrier (waiting next to the factory).  In the old game, in order to put a viable fleet down, you had to save enough $$ to buy the carrier and planes at the same time.  The rule above makes this move obsolete.

Here is another trick;  you can use the kamikazes to ruin an American SZ6 invasion.

US attacks with 3 BB, 3 CA with planes, 2 DD, 2 Subs

Target each carrier with 2 kamikazes.  Do not need (or want) contest the upcoming battle in any other way.

any carrier hit (or destroyed) by kamikaze cannot hold planes.  unless the US also owns Korea or has extra carriers, all the planes on the now-damage carrier instantly crash without any further combat.  If you do engage any ANY combat, the planes or carriers may be used as (“free”) causalities, so the trick is lessened in effect (and the general ineffectiveness of kamikaze since they roll 2)

[taamvan]

should qualify the above statement with the caveat that you must still fulfill the kamikaze conditions…think that requires a sea combat be declared (1 japanese destroyer should work)