New Axis & Allies Global War Variant (free map)

[Deaths Head 420]

Next Insallment

Russia=45 IPC’s +1

Graphic changes
None your totals are already correct, 41 land,4sea

[Deaths Head 420]

Next Installment: :)

Japan

Lost Territory- Saigon :(

Japan= 45 IPC’s

Graphic Changes Needed:

• 5 IPC added

French Indo China= 3 IPC’s +1
Formosa=1IPC +1

Convoy left of Philippines=5 IPC’s +2
Convoy by Corroline Islands= 4 IPC’s +1

The rest stays the same.

28 by land, 17 by sea

[Deaths Head 420]

Next Insallment:

ITALY :) = 25 IPC’s

Graphic changes needed
Albania = 1IPC -1
Sicily= 1 IPC -1

22 by land 3 by sea

The rest stays the same

[Deaths Head 420]

MY next Installment

UK=75 IPC’s

Graphic Changes Needed
No Air base in England
Cairo =2IPC +1 My reasoning is
1 Suez Canal, 2 capitol of Egypt

57 by land 17 by sea

The rest stays the same

[Deaths Head 420]

Next Installment

GERMANY= 54 IPC’s

New Territory- Berlin Circle

Graphic Changes Needed

Berlin Cirlce=8 IPC’s +2
West Germany 6 IPC’s +2 (Rhineland)

or you could put a convoy in the Baltic worth 4 IPC’s if it will fit. :)

So 54IPC’s by land, or 50 by land 4 by sea.

[Deaths Head 420]

So what we will have in the grand scheme of things is-

ALLIES = 205 IPC’s
AXIS + 123 IPC’s

22.5pts  over Half of Allied Production

This leaves England room to breath without smothering the Axis powers

So there it is
My 12 Cents

Take it as you will.    :evil:

DH

[Deaths Head 420]

I will be working on set ups for each country using original set up chats from Europe, Japan and Positronicas set ups. I did China’s cause it was short. :)

Give me a day or 2 and it will be done
Thanks for your time
Deaths Head 420

[CraigBee]

I like Death Head’s suggestions.  I compared it to the original map, and like the slightly higher Axis income.  Here is the comparison:
Original USA 85, DH USA + China: 85
UK same at 75
Russia original 44, DH 45
Original Germany 50, DH 54
Original Italy 24, DH 25
Original Japan 40, DH 45

Original Allies total 204, DH 205 for a 1 point increase.
Original Axis 114, DH 123 for a 9 point increase.

Deep Blue - Keep up the work, I like where we are going.  And someone has to make the final decision, so continue to make them.

If a map and startup graphics are available by Sunday, I will print and play test it for the next 4 Tuesdays.  Otherwise I have to wait about 4 months before its my choice of game again with the Tuesday evening play group.

Craig

[Deaths Head 420]

Thanks Craig Bee

I have extensively play tested on original map. I truly believe that these will be appropriate totals for each country.
It also allows for a 7th player if needed(China) to go simutaniously with the US. I literally have somewhere between 20 -30 games played already on the old Positronica map. Both the allies and the Axis Powers have won several times. The US even fell once to Japan. HeHe, I was Japan. :evil:

[CraigBee]

@Deaths:

Thanks Craig Bee

I have extensively play tested on original map. I truly believe that these will be appropriate totals for each country.
It also allows for a 7th player if needed(China) to go simutaniously with the US. I literally have somewhere between 20 -30 games played already on the old Positronica map. Both the allies and the Axis Powers have won several times. The US even fell once to Japan. HeHe, I was Japan. :evil:

What has changed on the map that would make you recommend 9 extra income for the axis?

[Deaths Head 420]

I feel The 9 extra IPC’s will even it out a little more, besides the Allies went up 1 also, so it is only a 8 IPC increase percentage wise.
I have found that the Axis powers struggle just a little bit to get going.

[murraymoto]

@deepblue:

Industrial Production Certificates (IPCs)

| A&A REVISED |
| | IPCs | % of World Total |
| US | 42 | 25% |
| UK | 30 | 18% |
| SU | 24 | 14% |
| Allied Total | 96 | 58% |
| |
| GER | 40 | 24% |
| JAP | 30 | 18% |
| Axis Total | 70 | 42% |
| |
| Total Diff | 16% |
| World Total IPCs | 166 |

| PROPOSED |
| | IPCs | % of World Total |
| US | 72 | 24% |
| UK | 51 | 17% |
| SU | 39 | 13% |
| Allied Total | 162 | 54% |
| |
| GER | 63 | 21% |
| JAP | 51 | 17% |
| ITA | 24 | 8% |
| Axis Total | 138 | 46% |
| |
| Total Diff | 8% |
| World Total IPCs | 300 |

I would say to go with the 250.  I’d like the 300, though it would extend the game, but just don’t like the idea of the US being able to drop 20+ INF a turn, and I don’t like to have to remember a bunch of rules that limit amounts of production for particular pieces per country.  If you need more pieces, buy them, and if you want a shorter game, play Classic.
  On the other hand, Lend Lease can play into it, though then the Soviets can perhaps drop multitudes of commies into the trenches…  So, Lend Lease is good, but the 250 still would be better.

I like following the percentages you had referenced from LH and AAR, definitely a good starting point without having to debate territory by territory, which would end up with even higher totals.  And basing whether this is good or not solely on playtesting at this point is going to give you skewed results based on incomplete rules and the house rules that will be factored in because people like them. 
All that being said about the numbers for countries, I am not a big fan of valueless land territories.  I can understand islands, but there are an awful lot of current valueless territories throughout central asia and that is already an 8 turn trip to Moscow for Japan at best, with half of that being of no added value.  Just in looking at the big picture and the current amounts, could it be feasible to at least make the current valueless territories have some value.  i mean, could there really be nothing there of use for a country’s warmachine?  men, metal, chemicals, food, supplies, chicks?  something…  making them 1 ipc each at least gives some meaning to defending abit. (this would add about 7 ipcs to Russia and 3/4 to China, couple to UK.  Anyhow, that may be a bit later in the discussion, but just my 2 cents at least, maybe it’s better to have them without value…

Yes on the convoy boxes not producing IPCs, bravo.

And on a delayed note, the Berlin circle v2 looks good, and I see no problem in having a factory for Germany in Berlin and in the Germany territory north of it for shipping.

[Deaths Head 420]

I say build the trans Siberian Railway so that a few of the valueless territories have a Different kind of Value. Strategic Value

My Marker is going to draw it on if it’s not printed on.  :-o

The worlds “value” does not have to be a nice round number either

If England only MAKES 51ipc’ THE GAME WON’T BE WORTH PLAYING BECAUSE IT WILL BE OVER WAY TO SOON. I feel people will start bidding for UK instead of Germany.  UK has to fuel the war machine for 3 different countries.(England, India,Australia) Kind of hard to do on this large of a map with each country getting to spend 17, 17 , and 16IPC each. not enough fuel for the fire. :(

Whats the point in convoy boxes if they make no $.

[Imperious Leader]

They will have to add some lend lease rules to balance it out.

[murraymoto]

@Deaths:

Whats the point in convoy boxes if they make no $.

–check out pages 22 and following, this was discussed quite a bit.

[Deaths Head 420]

No sir, I don’t llike it. Leave them the way they are.

[deepblue]

Fantastic, some activity.  Hopefully we can get a few more people to chime in on the subject.

CraigBee,
300 IPCs is too high but 328 is ok? What changed your mind?

Craig A Yope,
Yes, this will probably not be the final IPCs count, but which one do YOU like?

Murraymoto,
Thanks for the input.

@Deaths:

Whats the point in convoy boxes if they make no $.

Like I stated in my pervious post, convoys do not produce income.  They are transit points (ships do not make income, they move income).  These represent vulnerabilities in the supply lines.  I believe that CBs should be attacked and when attacked they reduce the available income of the owning nation.

@Deaths:

I have extensively play tested on original map. I truly believe that these will be appropriate totals for each country.

Playing games with the same friends does not constitute play testing.  Yes you have an insight that most of us do not, so tell me this.  Did you win most of the time?  Did you play the same people? How long did it take to play?  Honestly rate your competition?

Did you test it or just play?

Can you provide pictures of the board 3 turns to 5 turns in, the next time you play?  That would actually be a great help.

@Deaths:

So what we will have in the grand scheme of things is-

ALLIES = 205 IPC’s
AXIS + 123 IPC’s

I appreciate the time it takes to devise a IPCs system.  And yours will probably work just fine.  I am not saying it is bad or wrong.  I am entitled to my own opinion as well.

And you still have not addressed my concerns:

1. With such a high IPC count the piece density will be high.  This will slow the game down and consume even more of the limited space on the map.

Yes… the map is larger but the majority of the growth is in Russia and China.  If you look at the historical fronts they are not that much bigger and surely this does not constitute the 85 IPCs you have given the US.  Do you really think the US needs that much money when on the map they have not actually gained that much territory?

2. Historical relevance.  I don’t think your IPC values reflect the economic situation of the war.  Where did these figures come from?

You make a valid point concerning Britain.  After reviewing the AAR map I noticed that Japan is in control of the South Pacific whereas on our map Britain controls these territories.  And considering the time frame in which our map is reflecting, Britain should receive a larger percentage then Japan.  I also believe that if Japan starts with fewer IPCs this will encourage a more aggressive opening by the Japanese player, reflecting the war in better detail.

So I will post my new suggested IPC count.

@Deaths:

My Marker is going to draw it on if it’s not printed on.

If you use the Strategic Moves you will not need your Sharpie to draw on the trans Siberian Railway.  But feel free to do whatever you feel is necessary to your map.

@Imperious:

They will have to add some lend lease rules to balance it out.

I love that it is “they” now.  Your not part of this discussion?

Yes, like previously stated a lend lease system should be put in place.

My suggestion:
Lend Lease
Axis
Germany may send up to 15 IPCs to Italy during Germany’s purchase phase.

Allies
While the Soviet Union convoy box is Allied controlled.  Britain may send up to 15 IPCs to the Soviet Union during Britain’s purchase phase.

While the North Atlantic US convoy box is allied controlled the US may send up to 25 IPCs to Britain during US’s purchase phase.

my 2 cents

[Deaths Head 420]

@deepblue:

Like I stated in my pervious post, convoys do not produce income.  They are transit points (ships do not make income, they move income).  These represent vulnerabilities in the supply lines.  I believe that CBs should be attacked and when attacked they reduce the available income of the owning nation.

Gay  :cry:
So in saying this you have made the decision for everyone.
Whats the point of a SBR then?

@deepblue:

Playing games with the same friends does not constitute play testing.  Yes you have an insight that most of us do not, so tell me this.  Did you win most of the time?  Did you play the same people? How long did it take to play?  Honestly rate your competition?

Did you test it or just play?

Can you provide pictures of the board 3 turns to 5 turns in, the next time you play?  That would actually be a great help.

I would love too provide pictures, and I will. :)

As for my competition varies from week to week, I Have a Pool of 8-10 peeps + a few pop ins here and there. At least 6 of them I would consider very well versed in the ways of A&A.

As far as testing , what do you mean.
We set board up and played from the original post
A few rules we used that you should know about,
Ind. Complex In a Capitol city only had no limits on production-Rome Berlin, London, Washington, Tokyo,Moscow
others such as Sydney and Calcutta, could only produce IPC worth of territory
Positronicas turn order of,
Germany-Russia-Japan-UK-Italy-USA+China
We had a ten Techs- Most where basic AAR + a few from the “House” and Net. Nothing crazy.
We played with and without NA’s Frequently both ways
We toyed with Japans First strike as in Pacific, They don’t need it. I would say the Allies won most of the Games,but not by many.
We use CAP rules from Pacific.
Tanks where 3/3

@deepblue:

I appreciate the time it takes to devise a IPCs system.  And yours will probably work just fine.  I am not saying it is bad or wrong.  I am entitled to my own opinion as well.

And you still have not addressed my concerns:

1. With such a high IPC count the piece density will be high.  This will slow the game down and consume even more of the limited space on the map.

Yes… the map is larger but the majority of the growth is in Russia and China.  If you look at the historical fronts they are not that much bigger and surely this does not constitute the 85 IPCs you have given the US.  Do you really think the US needs that much money when on the map they have not actually gained that much territory?

2. Historical relevance.  I don’t think your IPC values reflect the economic situation of the war.  Where did these figures come from?

You make a valid point concerning Britain.  After reviewing the AAR map I noticed that Japan is in control of the South Pacific whereas on our map Britain controls these territories.  And considering the time frame in which our map is reflecting, Britain should receive a larger percentage then Japan.  I also believe that if Japan starts with fewer IPCs this will encourage a more aggressive opening by the Japanese player, reflecting the war in better detail.

So I will post my new suggested IPC count.

1 Piece Density. Yes there 2-3 spaces in and around Europe, West Germany, London, Berlin. This inconvenience is mostly first turn though, after set up, before first move. Bombers take up space. :) Use a Fleet card
After every thing gets chipped, No Probs.

1a 10 of that is Chinas money so therefore the US only makes 75, the same as Britain. The US is a vast Natural resource with major manufacturing capabilities. Britain needs half the globe to acheive that. That right there should show there manufacturing abilities. No where near as much as the US.

2 IPC Total- It’s a game! If you go totally Historical, Italy will make I dunno 3 IPC’s a turn. The Axis are suppossed to have a chance.
Your lend lease to Italy is a bad Idea. Germany CANNOT afford to give Italy Crap. Why would any one want to be Italy and have to depend on the German players kindness while he is trying to slam Russia and defend France at the same time. The Allied lend lease thing is cool, but should be a NA not an automatic get. Again Convoy’s should have IPC worth.

3. Dude you can’t base any of your findings off of the original map. Throw it away for now. Japan can’t have less. They now will have 3 factories surrounding them plus one on Hawaii + a whole new Army to fight in the Chinese. Japan is aggressive enough with Previous Set up. There navy is Huge and an Nice army to boot, I won’t even talk about their AirForce, let me just say 2 Bombers.

@deepblue:

If you use the Strategic Moves you will not need your Sharpie to draw on the trans Siberian Railway.  But feel free to do whatever you feel is necessary to your map.

Set the map up so people can play a basic A&A game using Established Rules.  Not every one is going to want to play a Fancy game that takes forever because of a thousand of your house rules. A game this big takes long enough.

@deepblue:

I love that it is “they” now.  Your not part of this discussion?

Yes, like previously stated a lend lease system should be put in place.

My suggestion:
Lend Lease
Axis
Germany may send up to 15 IPCs to Italy during Germany’s purchase phase.

Allies
While the Soviet Union convoy box is Allied controlled.  Britain may send up to 15 IPCs to the Soviet Union during Britain’s purchase phase.

While the North Atlantic US convoy box is allied controlled the US may send up to 25 IPCs to Britain during US’s purchase phase.

my 2 cents

As stated before you have already made every ones mind up on the convoy thingy you got going on. So as you delete all of the convoy boxes, we will not have a choice because you have made it for us, as with roads and rail Most people play this game using the vast majority of the OOB rules when it applys  a Pacific or Europe or AAR. Build the map around that crowd, Then make your juiced up version. If you have not played a game on the original map,(Posi’s) you need to before you start screwing with the mechanics of the map. You don’t know how too. If you have, what are you thinking?  :roll:

Just remake the map, not the rules.

[Imperious Leader]

I love that it is “they” now.  Your not part of this discussion?

It was a knee jerk reaction to the “Can you move Paris further south” getting no say.

ON the lend lease issue i don’t think it can be decided by “15 and 25 round numbers philosophy” but rather once the final IPC values are decided and those values are placed on the map… then you will have to look at the balance to address the problems with the Soviets or UK getting too easily into trouble.

The first thing is to get the basic parts of the variant down and then make an outline of all these little issues and address them each in turn.

1. first the template of units and costs and values

2. then any changes in movement and combat and non combat

3. technology

4. diplomacy

5. set up issues

6. scenarios

7. balancing issues ( lend lease, cheaper units for some nations, some starting technology etc)

[Deaths Head 420]

Imp. Leader.

1 Go with already established unit costs, ie. tanks 5 IPC’s Fighters 10 IPC’s and so on

2.Movement and the sequences in each countries turn should be as they are in AAR.

3. Techs. I believe we already have a great pool of techs to use from, We just need to narrow it down to 10- 12 of them

4. Diplomacy- I like this part. This is where the game can get real interesting fast.

5. Set up issues. I believe we should use a Hybrid or almost exact copy from before. Most of the set up is from Europe and Pacific put together.

6. Scenarios. Hmm, like what. Germany didn’t stab Russia in the back and decided not to invade, or….

7. The game is already for the most part balanced. If you give the Axis a few more IPC’s to start with, the game will be fine.