German focus?

[Aretaku]

I get to be Germany in my next game here at home, and I’ve been contemplating a number of things.

For one, I’m sick of the game devolving into the same old thing…Germany and Russia trading territories while Germany waits for Japanese help. It get’s boring, quite frankly.

So I’m thinking in this game I’m going to minimally defend the Russian front, and go full bore on Britain.

How is this best achieved?

I’m thinking a significant Med fleet is key, first to take Africa and establish a permenant presence there, then move on Britain…

…how much more air-force is necessary to prevent the U.S. from harrassing German naval operations?

Any ideas? Quite frankly the thought of leaving Russia largely unopposed in the west is a little intimidating, but I feel confident that I can utilize Germany effectively to at least keep him out of E. Europe/Balkans.

Thoughts?

[nooob]

are you playing with na’s?

[ajgundam5]

if u plan on leaving russia alone they will b able to build up and then rape you and if you are building navy and shuttling to africa you will not have sufficient forces on east front

[Sankt Hallvard]

I’m sorry to say, but your plan won’t fly Aretaku.

Neglecting the eastern front will get you into all sorts of trouble, most importantly lack of funds. Going after UK is highly situational, if the US goes for a pacific campaign and UK starts off with an Indian IC you could have a shot. So you need to make a more or less regular G1 opener so you don’t give your plan away. That means building an AC for the baltic and land troops for an impression of a “standard” opening. You could replace the land troops with air units, either 2 bombers with a bid or 2 figs. Doing so might force the Allied players to give up their KJF and thus put you back to zero. Then in G2 you can either mass more air trying to give an impression of defending yourself or go all out on trannies. If the UK went for the indian IC you might be able to hold out for one more round, then in G3 pump out the trannies and pray you can take out London in one or two attempts. Your airforce might be enough to deter a US insertion. In doing so, though, you will have Russia at Berlin’s doorstep, most of your airforce lost in operation Sea Lion and minimal land troops scattered around. At any time the US can easily counter your plan by inserting troops into Africa, reinforcing London or retake it after you might have taken it.

But you never know till you try, give it a shot!

[kyrial]

I have to agree to an extent with Sankt Hallvard… it is a plan that relies on the Russians being extremely cautious and the USA going with a KJF strat. If the UK bulks up and the USA does the traditional sending troops to help UK, I frankly don’t see how you can pull it off short of a miracle.

I do understand that you want to break away from the traditional game because, quite frankly, it does get boring. I mean, basically as the Axis it’s the same thing over and over and as the Allies the only issue is whether to go KGF or KJF and even the latter of the two is considered risky.

Perhaps a key here could be the following: don’t go all out on the USA… let the feel they can spend some on a fleet in the Pacific, thus taking away some IPCs that could be spent in Europe. Meanwhile, leave India be… possibly even move some troops north-wards in order to entice the UK player to build an IC in India. Over all, though, make line an enraged hornet at Russia via the northern route or middle route because you NEED to get the pressure there on his back door before he decides to go heavy into Europe. This may (and again, I stress may) give you the time you need as Germany to pull off the heavy against UK. Try and add a fighter every turn if you can because you will need the AF for the navy and also for the invasion.

I guess it’s a little bit of misdirection, but you need the Allies to feel as if Germany is just going to turtle and then WHAM hit them with it. Let us know how it turned out.

Oh, and if all else fails… loaded dice :)

[Aretaku]

We DO use NA’s, three per Axis power to be precise, and we use the ones from the Manual….

…we also leave out one per nation, (although that was only to make it fair since we HAD to remove Superfortresses)…

…this leaves me with

Atlantic Wall
Fortress Europe
Panzerblitz
Wolfpacks
Luftwaffe DB

Any but Luftwaffe would be of tremendous value to my plan…

Wolfpacks could help me counter US/UK attempts to take out my fleet, either as fodder or as effective ship killers

Atlantic Wall would ensure that US/UK must build MASSIVELY in order to make a landing to place pressure on Germany.

Panzerblitz would allow me to use tanks to trade territory with Russia instead of planes, giving me more money to spend, as well as freeing up my airforce for use against UK.

Fortress Europe could be essential to ensuring that Russia cannot advance without heavy losses.

---

In my mind, if I manage to get Panzer, Fortress and Wall, I can easily ensure that US/UK is no threat to me. If I can utilize Panzers and Artillery properly, I am confident that I can keep Russia from focusing too much on me, as Japans only goal will be full TP loads into Bury as quickly as possible.

Although here’s another thought…if Japan focused exclusively on America, would it keep Britain isolated enough for me to take him out before Russia starts knocking on my doorstep?

[Jennifer]

Just a thought, but couldn’t you go heavy Armor with Germany and try to knock out the infantry wall before it get’s ridiculous?  Maybe a surgical strike to hit Moscow, side-stepping Karelia, Archangel and Caucasus (yes, even if that means loosing Ukraine and Southern Europe) might be in your best interest.

You will, of course, loose his capital on the counter attack, but he’ll also have to strip his eastern defenses as well as pull out of Europe allowing an easy recovery there and Russia is in the worst possible position to recover from a capital sacking - even if you don’t take it he can’t recover those attack units.

Meanwhile, armor in this game are killer defenders.  I mean absolutely murder to attack them, even if they have a couple of infantry with them.

[nooob]

i personally like 2 rounds of straight transports…ger buys 5 trns one round tricks the uk into thinking the attack is coming then buys 5 more the turn after…this very situational because it involves a certain amount of cockyness on the part of the allies.  what i mean to say is after the  first 5 trns are on the board the us player doesnt buy units to reinforce the uk  because with only 7 total tns i appears that the uk can easily be defended on its own…but with 12 trns…plus its now too late for the us to send defenders…if this move is pulled off people tend to get REALLY pissed…

[nooob]

certain na’s make taking london next to impossible…radar, joint strike, enigma decoded, just to name 3

[Guest]

@nooob:

i personally like 2 rounds of straight transports…ger buys 5 trns one round tricks the uk into thinking the attack is coming then buys 5 more the turn after…this very situational because it involves a certain amount of cockyness on the part of the allies.  what i mean to say is after the  first 5 trns are on the board the us player doesnt buy units to reinforce the uk  because with only 7 total tns i appears that the uk can easily be defended on its own…but with 12 trns…plus its now too late for the us to send defenders…if this move is pulled off people tend to get REALLY pissed…

OK, on G1 you buy 5 TRNs, no land forces.
On G2 you buy 5 more, no land forces.
On G3 you pull 12 trannies worht of units (24 divisions) out of Europe.
(Germany only STARTS with 23 INF in Europe, and 6 of those are dead on G1, as are 2 ARM, 2 ART, and a FIG)

What in the world are you going to be using to hold back Russia during that time?  Sure, you take London on G3, and on R4 Berlin falls and Russia ends up with their money, Germany’s money, and the money raided from UK before Germany can even spend it.  Russia with $130 IPC to spend on R4… and Germany out of it.  Game over.

[88 Millimeter]

I’ll flip this one on its head.

You said Aretaku that you’re tired of trading units with Russia and waiting for Japan. Instead of trying to figure out a way to go after Britain and the U.S., how about coming up with a better way to kill Russia? I know this is a generality, but try not to trade endlessly. A much better position is to target a territory on the front and take it in force and hold it. Karelia is a nice example. It commands Archangel and W Russia- both only a step away from the prize of Moscow. It can be effectively reinforced with fresh infantry armies if the Baltic fleet is maintained. So you’ve solved the boredom problem if you can manage to do it- you’re setting the pace on the front and dictating terms to Russia- not too boring at all.

Belorussia and the Ukraine have their charms as well.

It’s not easy to do, but it would solve the problem of setting up a stack in Poland and running the same battles over and over again on the East Front.

[Jennifer]

Or build tanks and infantry and walk through Caucasus to Russia, ignoring pesky russian attacks on your northern flanks.  If you start moving first, you’ll hit their capital a round before they can get to yours, giving you one last round to build up in your capital to defend.

[panzerkampfwagen]

@Aretaku:

I get to be Germany in my next game here at home, and I’ve been contemplating a number of things.

For one, I’m sick of the game devolving into the same old thing…Germany and Russia trading territories while Germany waits for Japanese help. It get’s boring, quite frankly.

So I’m thinking in this game I’m going to minimally defend the Russian front, and go full bore on Britain.

How is this best achieved?

I’m thinking a significant Med fleet is key, first to take Africa and establish a permenant presence there, then move on Britain…

…how much more air-force is necessary to prevent the U.S. from harrassing German naval operations?

Any ideas? Quite frankly the thought of leaving Russia largely unopposed in the west is a little intimidating, but I feel confident that I can utilize Germany effectively to at least keep him out of E. Europe/Balkans.

Thoughts?

No dont do that. Russia has a weak economy at first so make all tanks first turn then take ov USSR, Then you get 64 money a turn. Britian wont attack for a few turns because it has to build a fleet and army

[nooob]

the 5 trannies for two turns trick can only work after at least 3 three turns of establishing a large number of land units in Europe forgot to mention that part

[Guest]

That is a rather significant oversight :-P

Still, later in the game, with UK/US fleets in the Atlantic, and with Germany’s fleets probably already destroyed, and their AF thinning…. a thousand TRN’s can’t even get past the Russian sub in SZ6 :-P

[Jennifer]

@ncscswitch:

That is a rather significant oversight :-P

Still, later in the game, with UK/US fleets in the Atlantic, and with Germany’s fleets probably already destroyed, and their AF thinning…. a thousand TRN’s can’t even get past the Russian sub in SZ6 :-P

You know, we should make a house rule that if you have 6 trannies per sub, and it’s only subs that are blocking you, then you can “sneak” 1d6 of them past without retalliation. :)

Then again, I’ve played house rules where fighters have to roll a successful “hit” to find a sub and then another to sink it…those are fun!  Germany starts going nutso with submarines!!! (Especially if you drop their cost to 5 IPCs like we do a lot here.)

[Aretaku]

Ooo….I like that sub house rule…

…I always felt that individual subs should be more effective. Instead they are utterly useless.  :-(

[Grimelark]

Some of these suggestions seem a little far fetched.  Especially the ones where you get Germany to all out blitz Russia.  I can forsee doom in your future.  With Germany you have to build up before you can even think about hitting Russia.  I will build Men the first two turns, then start building tanks and men and stacking them in either Korelia or Eastern Europe.  Make a stack big enough there and you can move it against Russia at about the same time Japan starts knocking on their door.

As for the straight bum rush, remember that you can’t support it, that America and Britain will be beating a weakened western Europe, and that when you finally do run into the 20 infantry sitting in Russia or the caucases and get beaten you are in a world of crap on your eastern flank as well.

Every time I see Germany go apeshit I just sit back and chalk up another win.

Germany is now the Russia of the original game, sit, wait, and build.

(in lieu of the naval inf build, I also have some luck on hitting heavy bombers early and using them, trn and inf…)

[Jennifer]

I disagree, Grime.  You have GOT to go all out against Russia with Germany.  Build plenty of infantry and armor and keep pounding.  You are more then capable of holding off the allied fleets for 2 rounds which protects your Western Europe from any significant invasions.  Meanwhile, Japan should be bringing at least part of it’s navy to assist with it’s own arial equipment to help defend.

You have got to threaten Moscow before the allies can start landing 16 infantry a round (8 English, 8 American) or you’re dead.  Defense = death.

[Grimelark]

You go all out after Russia and you will get there before Japan does.  This means that while your sitting on the edge of oblivion japan is still a turn from getting to Russia and probably more than that from getting sufficient forces mustered to be effective.  meanwhile you have stripped your western borders and are very much suceptable to a allied attack.  Losing Western Europe will not only net you -6 but also all of your jets.  In the games I have played when Germany gets to aggresive they end up short changing themselves.  As well they cannot support themselves well at all. so the troops teh send up to Russia are easily blocked from getting reinforcments by britain landing troops in Korelia.