Grasshopper's G40 Victory Objectives

[Young Grasshopper]

Been using this for a couple of months now and it has been working out really well for us.

[Rammstein]

Brilliant ideas YG. I’m normally not one for house rules, tech or bidding for that matter, things that alter the game too much, feels cheap somehow. These rules seem balanced at a glance, will try them out, along with your other house rules. I like that a winner can be decided at any given round, helps a lot with time constraints.
I do like how G40 gives the Axis an opportunity to win on either board, forcing the US to balance itself instead of just going KGF and not forcing Japan to leave it’s theatre. Your rules take that into account and seem to improve on them.

Do warships include transports?

Good job on your videos lately, especially the strategy ones, I enjoyed them and even got a few ideas. Keep up the good work.

[Black_Elk]

Again, great video! I especially appreciate the insight that the Allied victory condition is impossible to achieve in 1940 Global, unless you’re a total masochist with endless time on your hands hehe.

I like the idea this Token system much better, because it basically formalizes the concession process. Instead of leaving it just up for grabs like “well, I think I’m winning.” And the other guy says, “neah, I could come back from this I bet, but we don’t have time tonight.” Never a very satisfying conclusion or way to wrap things up. And the problems with continuation games is that the second session is never quite as exhilarating as the first. Assuming you can get the people back over, and can keep a board up in your house for that long.
:-D

A system like this is better than OOB in my view, or at least a lot more satisfying for single session matches

[Young Grasshopper]

Thanks guys, great comments and I really appreciate your input. I like this system for a lot of reasons but the biggest one has to be the fact that it’s a familiar game mechanic. Objectives are already engrained into the game, so using them to determine a winner is not a far stretch from what players are used to when achieving and denying objectives.

So far using these rules our group has had 1 tie, 2 Axis victories, and 1 Allied victory, and in my 1 on 1 games… 2 Axis victories and 1 Allied victory.

[Rammstein]

One question I have is what if time is no object? When do you chose to end the game? A given number of rounds, or one side achieves more tokens?

Again, do you count Axis transports as warships?

Cheers!

[Young Grasshopper]

@Rammstein:

One question I have is what if time is no object? When do you chose to end the game? A given number of rounds, or one side achieves more tokens?

Again, do you count Axis transports as warships?

Cheers!

Never had the luxury of an infinite deadline, but you could do it either way…

1. First side to achieve 3 tokens.

2. The side with the most tokens after 15 game rounds

No… transports are not considered warships in 1940 Global.

[Magro]

Excellent idea  :-D

This will reduce playing time and/or produce a clear winner at a deadline (01:00,  round 12 or whatever deadline one end up with).

I really like that you can fullfill these by just achiving  them, not needing to hold  the areas a whole turn (vs several potential countreattacks).
That should encourage some desperate attacks, and the last round will be a blast when eveyone tries to get/stop objectives at any cost!

In fact this solves the main issue with A &A - it reduces playing time and/or creates  a clear winner when time runs out.
We’ll try playing borth Axis and Allies (one game as each team) and add up our points- will make it matter if you lose 5-2 or 4-2 in a game…

[Dafyd]

Great work Young Grasshopper.  I like this because we will spend alot of time debating who may have actually won when we have to stop.  I do have the luxury of being able to leave a game set up but it is hard to get the people back.  Being able to count objectives achieved is great.  One question though…can you lose that token once gained?  If the allies land in North Africa or liberate one of the captured victory cities before the round ends, does the Axis player then give the token back or do you calculate what tokens have been obtained at the end of the round?  Just clarification for my thinking.  I think it would be nice to put the token in my hand when achieved and really nice to see the enemy have to surrender any token that they may have one.  Sadistic…maybe but still satisfying.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Dafyd:

Great work Young Grasshopper.  I like this because we will spend alot of time debating who may have actually won when we have to stop.  I do have the luxury of being able to leave a game set up but it is hard to get the people back.  Being able to count objectives achieved is great.  One question though…can you lose that token once gained?  If the allies land in North Africa or liberate one of the captured victory cities before the round ends, does the Axis player then give the token back or do you calculate what tokens have been obtained at the end of the round?  Just clarification for my thinking.  I think it would be nice to put the token in my hand when achieved and really nice to see the enemy have to surrender any token that they may have one.  Sadistic…maybe but still satisfying.Â

In our games, the token can not be taken away… this helps nations to go for objectives instead of defending all day or “turtling”. 2 objectives where it’s good they keep the token is when the Germans want to invade London even though it looks like the US will liberate, and when the Americans want to invade Rome when the Germans can easily drive them back into the sea.

[CWO Marc]

Great video, YG, and glad to hear that your system has been well received by your gaming group.  At the risk of making a bad pun, could this house rule be described as a system for producing token victories?  :-D

But seriously, your video really drove home the imbalance that exists in the Global game’s official victory conditions.  In essence: the two sides are fighting a global war – but whereas the Allies can only win by achieving victory conditions that encompass both the European and Pacific theatres, the Axis wins by achieving victory conditions that encompass only one of those theatres.  So it’s hardly surprising that the Allies never seem to win a by-the-book victory.

In a way, I can see why the Allies are required to hold all three Axis capitals (this could be nicknamed the “ROBERTO” requirement) because that’s how WWII actually ended.  What I can’t understand is why the Axis doesn’t have a victory condition which is global in scope, and hence which requires the Axis to fight and win on both sides of the board rather than concentrating on just 50% of the world.  Admittedly there’s a speculative element here because, historically, the Axis didn’t win and we therefore don’t know what global configuration would have been considered an Axis victory.  But it might be an interesting exercise to figure out what such an “end state” could plausibly have looked like, and to devise a balanced Axis counterpart to the official Allied victory condition.

A question: in your system, do you keep a list of which specific victory tokens have been won?  I’m asking for the following reason.  You mention that a player who wins a victory token (say, by capturing Moscow) doesn’t lose it if the achievement is subsequently reversed (say, by having the Russians liberate Moscow).  That’s fine…but what if (in our example) the Germans re-take Moscow?  I assume they don’t get a second token for having re-achieved the same objective – and if that’s the case, you need to keep track of which objectives have been “used up” and are no longer available.  The two obvious ways would be to either check tem off on a list, or (which might look cool) having a unique token for each victory condition.  Your video indicates that you use non-unique tokens, so I would guess that this means you use a checklist.

[Young Grasshopper]

@CWO:

A question: in your system, do you keep a list of which specific victory tokens have been won?�  I’m asking for the following reason.�  You mention that a player who wins a victory token (say, by capturing Moscow) doesn’t lose it if the achievement is subsequently reversed (say, by having the Russians liberate Moscow).�  That’s fine…but what if (in our example) the Germans re-take Moscow?�  I assume they don’t get a second token for having re-achieved the same objective – and if that’s the case, you need to keep track of which objectives have been “used up” and are no longer available.�  The two obvious ways would be to either check tem off on a list, or (which might look cool) having a unique token for each victory condition.�  Your video indicates that you use non-unique tokens, so I would guess that this means you use a checklist.

Thanks for that CWO Marc, I have edited the first post to address the issues…

“Once a victory objective is achieved, a victory token will be awarded. The side with the most victory tokens at the end of the day wins the game. Victory tokens are awarded immediately upon completion regardless of when, or how the objective was achieved, and a token can never be taken away or awarded twice for the same objective. A win or a tie can only be declared at the end of a full game round, but the game does not need a previously decided round in which to end”.

Also, you bring up a very good point, I plan on making a custom deck of cards that will feature both national objectives and these Victory objectives as well… so the tokens are just temparary I would say. In the meantime, tokens are rare, so remembering how they were achieved in a single game is not difficult.

In our tie game, no side had a token, and the Axis have taken the North Africa token a couple of times along with Calcutta, however, the Allies have gotten 1 for liberating Paris and 2 other tokens in different games for no Axis units in Africa. The Moscow, Tokyo, and Philippines tokens have not yet been awarded in our games, but thats not from a lack of trying.

[Stormtrooper]

A great video YG I really like the new VO that you have made and I think they will improve the game a great deal. I love watching your video’s and have learned a lot of new tactics. Keep up the good work  8-)

[Young Grasshopper]

@Stormtrooper:

A great video YG I really like the new VO that you have made and I think they will improve the game a great deal. I love watching your video’s and have learned a lot of new tactics. Keep up the good work  8-)

Thank you Stormtrooper, much appreciated… and welcome to axisandallies .org

[Young Grasshopper]

The victory objective lists for both sides have been revised and updated in post #1. We feel that the minor modifications greatly improve this house rule for game balance and historical accuracy.

[baron Münchhausen]

So San Francisco is never a reachable objective for Axis?

[Young Grasshopper]

@Baron:

So San Francisco is never a reachable objective for Axis?

Not in our games, to take San Fran the Japs would have to give up collecting all the easy money for many rounds, just for a long shot at the same amount for 1 game round.

[NilOGrav]

Big thanks for Young Grasshopper,

Played this last weekend in combination with the Halifax rules (option 2, the greater Commonwealth). Fantastic. We have added a ton of luxury materials (NO-cards, scoreboards, country sheets, , IPCs, tokens, etc) to help speed things up and are looking for a year now how to create a one day game w/o losing the characteristics.

This completely answered our questions! Congratulations on a job well done.

chrz Eppo

[Young Grasshopper]

@NilOGrav:

Big thanks for Young Grasshopper,

Played this last weekend in combination with the Halifax rules (option 2, the greater Commonwealth). Fantastic. We have added a ton of luxury materials (NO-cards, scoreboards, country sheets, , IPCs, tokens, etc) to help speed things up and are looking for a year now how to create a one day game w/o losing the characteristics.

This completely answered our questions! Congratulations on a job well done.

chrz Eppo

Thanks for the comments NiIOGrav, glad to help… I honestly think these VOs are a no brainer for those that want to sum things up in a 10 hour day. I will be releasing my new game accessory card deck soon, keep an eye out for my next “essential customizations” video.

Cheers.