This topic has been moved to Player Help.
Player Help
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=9657.0Is not related to Revised.
What's the consensus on a standard bid?
-
The biggest problem I have with attacking Ukraine is that it leaves the WR attack woefully short of offensive power. If you want to reliably take Ukraine with enough force to not only take it but also have enough units remaining to cause the German player a headache( taking with 1 arm doesn’t annoy me as Germany), then you will have to bring 3 arm, 2 fig. If you only bring 3 arm, 1 fig or 2 arm, 2 fig to give WR more muscle, then the chances of taking Ukraine at all drop a good amount. By attacking Ukraine/WR you are usually taking more causalties in WR that you would if you attacked Belo/WR, as well. I just prefer the more reliable opening of Belo/WR despite giving Germany more freedom in their opening, because Russia can afford for Belo to get ugly and WR never does because of the amount of overkill brought to that battle. In Ukr/WR, Russia can’t afford for either battle to get ugly.
This is why I always roll the West Russia battle FIRST – to see how aggressive I can be in the Ukraine battle. Depending on how W.Russia goes, I might not push my luck in Ukraine. But you are correct – W.Russia is the weakest link of this strategy, NOT Ukraine, as everyone else seems to think.
-
Well for the Ukr attack I think that battle in itself is favorable to the Russians. 95% of the battles result in clearing Ukraine with 2 fighters left, which is an even trade - that is workable. It’s not overly annoying to Germany, but it’s not killing Russia either. The average is 3 armor left, so if we get unlucky and lose up to 3 armor than expected, it’s still acceptable.
But good luck is pretty awesome. There’s a 33% chance that there will be more than 3 arm left, with a significant 13% chance of seeing 1 inf 1 art 3 arm. Germany’s in a quandary at this point; to attack is to significantly weaken other attacks or burn up valuable tanks, to not attack is to let the Russians get away with murder (3 inf for 3 inf 1 art 1 arm 1 fig). So I guess the only choice is for the Germans to strafe in that case.
1 in 3 games will see Germany with an annoying as hell force in Ukraine, and in those other 2 out of 3, the vast majority is at worst doing an even trade, which is acceptable.
That I think gets luck to work for you - the bad luck isn’t so bad, but the good luck is amazing.
I do however like the point that W. Russia is much less secure than normal. That adds a layer of uncertainty to the Ukraine attack, because even if you succeed there, if you mess up in W. Russia that can deflate you.
Edit: nice point about rolling W. Russia first, Gamer.
-
I happen to like to take Egypt with massive power if I can. If you can get 2 armor and some ground units (Inf/Art) to live in Egypt then England’s going to be hard pressed to get it back, and if they don’t, then you can blitz from there for quick financial gains.
-
So just for heck I decided to try the Ukraine attack in my game against ncscswitch. I survived with 1 Inf 1 Art 3 Arm, and between WRus and Caucasus there are 11 Inf staring at any German force that retakes Ukraine. I also got a little silly and bought 1 Ftr 1 Arm 3 Inf on Russia 1 - I’m experimenting with the idea that Russia can really use extra air power. I might even buy a 4th ftr omgzorz!
-
Well I just did the W. Russia/Ukraine attack and came up with 3 inf 1 art 1 arm in W. Russia and 2 arm in Ukraine -_-! Freaking Ender, your troops love you more than they love me, that’s why I could never be the commander…
On a more serious note, the result you got is only very slightly above average in Ukraine, and W. Russia you got the median outcome. I’m glad it came out good for you because it burnt me in the butt.
-
Btw I highly not recommend getting a 4th fighter, Ender. 3 is just right. Any more than three and you’re losing out on significant land troops, any less and you’re throwing art or arm to take territories.
-
@Bean:
Btw I highly not recommend getting a 4th fighter, Ender. 3 is just right. Any more than three and you’re losing out on significant land troops, any less and you’re throwing art or arm to take territories.
I agree 100%.
@Ender:
So just for heck I decided to try the Ukraine attack in my game against ncscswitch. I survived with 1 Inf 1 Art 3 Arm, and between WRus and Caucasus there are 11 Inf staring at any German force that retakes Ukraine. I also got a little silly and bought 1 Ftr 1 Arm 3 Inf on Russia 1 - I’m experimenting with the idea that Russia can really use extra air power. I might even buy a 4th ftr omgzorz!
Let us know how that purchase works out for you (or, gee, I guess I could just read along the thread myself). I’ve seen that purchase A LOT lately in different combinations of openings, and while I was initially skeptical, I think it can work with the right opening. (And be disasterous with the wrong opening.)
-
I think it’s probably better to buy the fig immediately to save the art on R2; you should have enough troops with average or better dice + the infantry units flowing in from the east.
-
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=10605.new#new
There’s the game link.
I like the idea of the 4th fighter b/c then you can attack 2 territories with 2 Ftrs each. But agreed, it is at the cost of land units. It may be a good idea once some reinforcements have arrived. I know Ftrs are expensive, but their tactical mobility can be worth it - like tanks that could decide any turn whether they hit the japanese or the germans. Of course, for the same price you can have a tank on each front…
-
Yeah it might be ok once reinforcements have arrived. Before that though I’d rather have 3 extra inf to act as fodder in case of a Ukraine push or in case I decide to move into Ukraine heavy myself.
-
Well, that game is not going to be a good judge…
Dan once again is getting incredible dice in his game against me…
Allies have well above average dice thus far.Hell Japan went 5 rounds in China with 5 INF, 3 FIGs
AND ONLY MANAGED TO CLEAR IT BUT NOT TAKE IT!
:roll: -
I feel your pain Switch, but I’m still gunna nag you for being a hypocrite. :P
Anyway, yea, bad dice trump good tactics any day!
As for 4 fighters with Russia, not until you own E. Europe and/or Balkans and no Japanese pressure and only if you want to clear the med with Russia. That happens like what, once every 50th game?
-
@Cmdr:
I feel your pain Switch, but I’m still gunna nag you for being a hypocrite. :P
Anyway, yea, bad dice trump good tactics any day!
As for 4 fighters with Russia, not until you own E. Europe and/or Balkans and no Japanese pressure and only if you want to clear the med with Russia. That happens like what, once every 50th game?
Very true, but it’s really cool when Russia has that fourth fighter! Russia with an airforce is SCAARRRRRY! :-o
-
Can you believe I used to think that starting with a 2 fig buy with Russia was good? XD
The point of it was to attack the med fleet if it offloaded into Anglo with 4 figs :roll:
-
4 Figs kills the Med fleet with a fighter or two left, in my experience. No sims to support that statement.
Nice combo if England liberates Egypt and takes Algeria on UK 1.
Anyway, I’ve bought bombers with Russia before, just to drive the point home that Germany was dead.
-
Actually even in Classic one can win without a Bid, since outcome depends far more on the quality of the strategist involved(like in Revised) than in material advantage.
I challenge you to play against me, I play allies, you play axis with no bid.
No tech. LL or ADS is up to you. TripleA, host via hamachi.
Or are you a real coward? -
I don’t understand why people even reply to nuno in the first place, and even less when they bring his posts back from the grave like this. The best thing to do with him is ignore him. You just give him what he wants with these challenges: a cheap sense of importance or significance. He’s nothing but a net troll, a cockroach. Ignore him, because he scurries to quickly to be able to stomp on him.
-
Regarding R1, throwing everything at Ukr does not hurt the WRus much at all.
All-out into Ukr leaves WRus with a 60% chance to take it with 4-6inf 1art 1arm. Adding one armor ups the odds to about 65% for the same survivors.
In Ukr, all-out has a 96% chance of winning, and 60% of taking it with 2arm 2ftsr > 3arm 1art 2ftrs. If you divert one arm to WRus, Ukr now has 86% chance of winning, and only 54% chance of taking with 1arm 2ftsr > 2arm 1art 2ftrs.
WRus will be taken no matter what and with basically the same casualties. Whichever territory that arm goes to is going to get a +5% towards the three most likely results, and if the arm goes to Ukr, the attack gets +13% chance to win.
The arm is probably best spent in Ukr because it guarantees at least a good strafe, thereby preventing a G2 counter into WRus. If you really want to take Ukr, then throw all 3arm. But if you’re playing low luck (or at just feeling really lucky) and just want to strafe Ukr down to the ftr, I’d send 2. Much better chance of not taking or under-strafing.
-
Nuno : Son plus qu’évident votre utilisation fréquente du traducteur de Langue en ligne pour prendre la seule langue vous parlez (pas très bien je peux ajouter) et essayant de vous donner une présentation fausse de vos adresses de communication réelles a été notée.
Votre fondamentalement dans l’idiot sans vie…
Nuno: Sein mehr als offensichtlich Ihr häufiger Gebrauch des On-Line-Sprachübersetzers, um die einzige Sprache zu nehmen, sprechen Sie (nicht sehr gut ich kann beitragen), und versuchend, Sie zu geben eine falsche Präsentation Ihrer wirklichen Nachrichtensachkenntnisse ist bemerkt worden.
Ihr grundsätzlich im Idioten ohne Leben…
Nuno: Его более чем очевидный ваше частое использование интерактивного Языкового переводчика чтобы брать единственный язык Вы говорите (не очень хорошо, я могу добавить), и пытающийся давать Вас, ложное представление ваших фактических навыков коммуникации было отмечено.
Ваш в основном в идиоте без жизни…
Nuno: Su más que obvio su uso frecuente del traductor de Lengua en línea para tomar la única lengua usted habla (no muy bien puedo añadir) e intentando darle una presentación falsa de sus habilidades de comunicación actuales ha sido notada.
Su básicamente en idiota sin vida…
you see anybody can do this-
-
I just used the Ukraine attack with good results, I may try it again I think.
Suggested Topics
