What's the consensus on a standard bid?


  • In my experience, bids fluctuate from a low of 5 or 6 to a high of 9.  For me, it depends on whether I prefer playing the Axis or the Allies.  I think good players can win with almost any bid as the Axis, whereas less experienced players probably need the greater options available in the 8-9 range.  Just my two cents.


  • The way our game is going I should have bid 15 or so.  :roll:

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Wow, a 9 bid would be a luxury for me!  I usually come in at 6 or 7, depending who I am playing and how they normally bid.

    I just don’t want Germany starting with a bonus submarine in SZ 8 or a bonus transport in SZ 14.

    Too easy to sink both British Battleships with the former, too easy to hold Africa and threaten Caucasus with the later.

  • Moderator

    @DarthMaximus:

    This is full bid placement (no restrictions)

    5 bids - 5
    6 bids - 19
    7 bids - 31
    8 bids - 28
    9 bids - 6

    Winners (Allies/Axis):

    5 bids - 2/3
    6 bids - 8/11
    7 bids - 18/13
    8 bids - 16/12
    9 bids - 3/3

    Percentages (Allies win %):

    Overall - 47/42 - Allies win 52.8
    5 bids - Allies win 40% (too small of a sample)
    6 bids - Allies win 42.1%
    7 bids - Allies win 58.1%
    8 bids - Allies win 57.1%
    9 bids - Allies win 50% (too small of a sample)

    Eliminating the 5 and 9 bids and focusing on 6, 7, 8 we get:

    6-8 bids - 42/36 - Allies win 53.8%

    And if we just focus on 7 and 8 bids (which seems to be the norm now):

    7-8 bids - 34/25 - Allies win 57.6%

    Okay, I went back and went through games up until early Oct. (58 more games).  So, now thru 147 games:

    This is full bid placement (no restrictions)

    5 bids - 5
    6 bids - 27
    7 bids - 39
    8 bids - 58
    9 bids - 16
    10 bids - 2

    Winners (Allies/Axis):

    5 bids - 2/3
    6 bids - 15/12
    7 bids - 23/16
    8 bids - 32/26
    9 bids - 10/6
    10 bids - 1/1

    Percentages (Allies win %):

    Overall - 83/64 - Allies win 56.5%
    5 bids - Allies win 40% (only 5 games played)
    6 bids - Allies win 55.6%
    7 bids - Allies win 58.9%
    8 bids - Allies win 55.2%
    9 bids - Allies win 62.5%
    10 bids - Allies win 50.0% (only 2 games played)

    Eliminating the 5 and 10 bids and focusing on 6, 7, 8, 9 we get:

    6-9 bids - 80/60 - Allies win 57.1%

    And if we just focus on 6, 7 and 8 bids:

    6-8 bids - 70/54 - Allies win 56.5%

    Well, taking into account more games fixed the 6 bid anomaly.  It now falls more into line with the 7 and 8.  Probably do to that fact that 5-6 bids may have won early but later showed to be beatable and the bid moved up to the 7-8 range.  97 games have had a 7 or 8 bid with 58 games having an 8 bid.


  • I’m surprised the 8 bid is so popular – I must be under-bidding! :lol:


  • I’m not really surprised 8 is popular, but among the “upper class” that I perceive in these forums, 8 is out of the question.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I’m surprised it is so high.  I always feel like I’m pushing it at 7.


  • @Bean:

    I’m not really surprised 8 is popular, but among the “upper class” that I perceive in these forums, 8 is out of the question.

    The figures shows the allies are still winning more than losing, so the bid will go up.

    Allied strategies are getting so tight, it’s hard for the axis to win, especially if they get poor early dice.  The allies can overcome bad early dice.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @axis_roll:

    @Bean:

    I’m not really surprised 8 is popular, but among the “upper class” that I perceive in these forums, 8 is out of the question.

    The figures shows the allies are still winning more than losing, so the bid will go up.

    Allied strategies are getting so tight, it’s hard for the axis to win, especially if they get poor early dice.  The allies can overcome bad early dice.

    I disagree.  If the Allies really get stomped on round 1 and suffer poor defensive and offensive results on round 2, they may never recover against a machine of an axis player.


  • Strategies overall are improving.

    But as has been mentioned, the Axis is more vulnerable to bad dice early than the Allies, thus the slight elevation of the bid from the 6-7 to the 7-8 range.

    The fact that, after so many games have been played, that the bid is still averaging only a fraction over $7, and that the Axis still wins 9 out of 20 games means that things must be pretty well balanced at this point.


  • @Gamer:

    I think good players can win with almost any bid as the Axis, whereas less experienced players probably need the greater options available in the 8-9 range.  Just my two cents.

    Good players “can” win with any bid as axis, or allies, as can any player, good or bad.
    This does not apply in general, though.
    I said in another thread I’m pretty sure that even the best lobby players would not play me without any bid, If I
    play allies. I didn’t care to ask.
    And most unfortunate, I must admit that atm, for me to play against the top 5 lobby players would be a mismatch.
    I have also no reason to believe that the best lobby players are any better than
    the best players in other playgrups, if a playgroup is big enough, and have many players who been playing revised for many years.
    The triplea lobby isn’t really a playgroup as such, but for convenience sake we can regard any place in reality or
    virtuality where ppl meet and play games as a playgroup.

    I have already challenged Ncswitch for game, I play allies, he plays axis with bid 1…  :mrgreen:
    I will challenge anyone who wants to play axis without bid or bid 1, I can give 1, I’m not greedy, no…?
    TripleA, u host, TTL, no tech, I prefer LL but with bid 1 for axis, or without bid, I believe I can the handle teh uncertainty
    of reg dice.
    Seriously, that’s what I’m talking about. Axis need bid. Eod.


  • @ncscswitch:

    Strategies overall are improving.

    But as has been mentioned, the Axis is more vulnerable to bad dice early than the Allies, thus the slight elevation of the bid from the 6-7 to the 7-8 range.

    The fact that, after so many games have been played, that the bid is still averaging only a fraction over $7, and that the Axis still wins 9 out of 20 games means that things must be pretty well balanced at this point.

    The reason why I brought this thread up again, was that I was wondering what bid system were used
    by players on this forum, in PBF, and generally. I understand it is a fullplacement bid, which means that u can place any unit anywhere on your own TT’s, and u can bring over ipc that are not spent.
    Imo it’s better to have bid system which makes bids as low as possible, and if axis or allies victories are near 50% with a 7-8 ipc
    fullplacement bid, then this system is slightly better then the warclub ladder bid system.
    The only problem that I see with this system, is the possibility to place 3 inf in ukr. That makes an advantage for axis
    victory which is more than acceptable imo.
    It was meant as a joke that I challenged u, but this is also meant seriously, because even if revised 4th.ed is much better balanced than classic, it’s still not balanced good enough, and my initiative to challenge players who are generally better than me, illustrates this
    point very good.


  • The masters over at Csub don’t allow more than one bid unit per territory under the reasoning that more than that changes the balance of the board too much; they are minimalists in that sense. The bids might be higher, but you don’t see insane things like 3 inf Libya or Ukraine. The last time I lost to them they said their bids are in the 9-11 range, but that was over a year ago. I’ve never even come close to beating the author that I played.


  • Back in the day at AAMC and FoE I remember FIDA bids (so free placement but only 1/2 on units) were 6 or so–essentially enough to get an inf or art into Lib and throw some IPCs to both powers. And as far as I can tell, I think that’s a pretty good place for the Axis to be. Maybe even something smaller like 3-4 IPCs to be spent anywhere.

    I agree that giving the Axis 8+ IPCs that could potentially be spend on an Atl sub or a Med trn is just too potent. And look at AAR in general. It has more strategical and tactical options than A&A, but I think the Axis definitely have more powerful strategies–namely Germany’s.

    Perhaps this could change with some better Allied strats, especially in the area of UK1 options (http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=10443.0)
    but for now it looks like the Axis just need an inf/art or two, not an extra naval unit.


  • @Bean:

    The masters over at Csub don’t allow more than one bid unit per territory under the reasoning that more than that changes the balance of the board too much; they are minimalists in that sense. The bids might be higher, but you don’t see insane things like 3 inf Libya or Ukraine. The last time I lost to them they said their bids are in the 9-11 range, but that was over a year ago. I’ve never even come close to beating the author that I played.

    Recall too that C-Sub doesn’t allow a capital to be attacked on round 1.

    This only applies realistically to G1 on London, but it does alter the bid in allowing more than 7…. (tpt to baltic)


  • @hyogoetophile:

    Back in the day at AAMC and FoE I remember FIDA bids (so free placement but only 1/2 on units) were 6 or so–essentially enough to get an inf or art into Lib and throw some IPCs to both powers. And as far as I can tell, I think that’s a pretty good place for the Axis to be. Maybe even something smaller like 3-4 IPCs to be spent anywhere.

    I agree that giving the Axis 8+ IPCs that could potentially be spend on an Atl sub or a Med trn is just too potent. And look at AAR in general. It has more strategical and tactical options than A&A, but I think the Axis definitely have more powerful strategies–namely Germany’s.

    Perhaps this could change with some better Allied strats, especially in the area of UK1 options (http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=10443.0)
    but for now it looks like the Axis just need an inf/art or two, not an extra naval unit.

    FIDA bids are now around 14-17 these days.

    Allied play continues to improve.  Remember this game is won with defense, it’s easier to defend than attack.  It’s also cheaper to defend than expand.  Even if a game has become balanced economically, the allies have that defensive advantage.  Also forgot to mention the 3 on 2 advantage.

    Personally, unless I know the other player is horrible with the allies, I rarely bid less than 8 for the Axis.


  • I think a standard bid of 8, with leftover IPCs not lost, and any number of units built where another unit controlled by that power already exists - IF LHTR is in effect, which I would hope would also be standardized.

    I don’t think a Baltic transport buy or an Atlantic sub buy is too horrible for the Allies.  Bad, yes, but nothing the Allies can’t handle.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Best solution I found for the Submarine in SZ 8 bid is to have Russia attack Norway straight off.  Even if you lose a fighter, you are better off then losing the Transport and Battleship in SZ 2.


  • And USSR doing Norway on R1 certainly balances central europe…  Axis can solidify well before Russia gets to build with the extra income… making Europe more of a battle for Stalingrad/Gates of Moscow (West Russia) instead of trading Belo and Ukraine…

  • 2007 AAR League

    Ummm - is it just me or should these posts read “Axis” everywhere they say “Allies”. Otherwise the Allied chance of victory improves with a bigger Axis bid.  :?

    @DarthMaximus:

    @DarthMaximus:

    This is full bid placement (no restrictions)

    5 bids - 5
    6 bids - 19
    7 bids - 31
    8 bids - 28
    9 bids - 6

    Winners (Allies/Axis):

    5 bids - 2/3
    6 bids - 8/11
    7 bids - 18/13
    8 bids - 16/12
    9 bids - 3/3

    Percentages (Allies win %):

    Overall - 47/42 - Allies win 52.8
    5 bids - Allies win 40% (too small of a sample)
    6 bids - Allies win 42.1%
    7 bids - Allies win 58.1%
    8 bids - Allies win 57.1%
    9 bids - Allies win 50% (too small of a sample)

    Eliminating the 5 and 9 bids and focusing on 6, 7, 8 we get:

    6-8 bids - 42/36 - Allies win 53.8%

    And if we just focus on 7 and 8 bids (which seems to be the norm now):

    7-8 bids - 34/25 - Allies win 57.6%

    Okay, I went back and went through games up until early Oct. (58 more games).  So, now thru 147 games:

    This is full bid placement (no restrictions)

    5 bids - 5
    6 bids - 27
    7 bids - 39
    8 bids - 58
    9 bids - 16
    10 bids - 2

    Winners (Allies/Axis):

    5 bids - 2/3
    6 bids - 15/12
    7 bids - 23/16
    8 bids - 32/26
    9 bids - 10/6
    10 bids - 1/1

    Percentages (Allies win %):

    Overall - 83/64 - Allies win 56.5%
    5 bids - Allies win 40% (only 5 games played)
    6 bids - Allies win 55.6%
    7 bids - Allies win 58.9%
    8 bids - Allies win 55.2%
    9 bids - Allies win 62.5%
    10 bids - Allies win 50.0% (only 2 games played)

    Eliminating the 5 and 10 bids and focusing on 6, 7, 8, 9 we get:

    6-9 bids - 80/60 - Allies win 57.1%

    And if we just focus on 6, 7 and 8 bids:

    6-8 bids - 70/54 - Allies win 56.5%

    Well, taking into account more games fixed the 6 bid anomaly.  It now falls more into line with the 7 and 8.  Probably do to that fact that 5-6 bids may have won early but later showed to be beatable and the bid moved up to the 7-8 range.  97 games have had a 7 or 8 bid with 58 games having an 8 bid.

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