AARHE: Phase 3: Revised NA's

[tekkyy]

Rgarding “Commando Frogmen” we last discussed about its range and stuff. Also, is this a special attack of some sort of inside normal sea combat?

[B.AnderssonGameMaster]

@tekkyy:

Rgarding “Commando Frogmen” we last discussed about its range and stuff. Also, is this a special attack of some sort of inside normal sea combat?

No range restriction and yes it is special attack. One of Italys submarines may target any enemy ship in an attack with or without other attacking units. Hit on 3 or less during that battle.

[Imperious Leader]

I find problems with this:

Self Propelled Artillery
The Italian military lacked modern tanks to support their war effort. As the war progressed, Italy made significant advances in their self propelled artillery design.
Your artillery may give one matching infantry one additional movement allowance. The tank and the infantry unit must leave from the same territory.

Self- Propelled Artillery are basically large Artillery guns mounted on a tank chassis… 1) what did Italy have by way of this design? 2) how is it possible for entire infantry units to be piggybacked onto these machines? 3) Are you combining somehow the “idea” that since they are more mobile than artillery then somehow they must be supported by large groups of soldiers?

I think you may take a page from what i put up on Italian NA’s and see if something can be made better.

[tekkyy]

@B.:

No range restriction and yes it is special attack. One of Italys submarines may target any enemy ship in an attack with or without other attacking units. Hit on 3 or less during that battle.

Oh, just one submarine?

As for the range I recall something like it must be in the Mediterranean as we don’t expect frogmen to swim in the wild sea?

[B.AnderssonGameMaster]

@tekkyy:

@B.:

No range restriction and yes it is special attack. One of Italys submarines may target any enemy ship in an attack with or without other attacking units. Hit on 3 or less during that battle.

Oh, just one submarine?

As for the range I recall something like it must be in the Mediterranean as we don’t expect frogmen to swim in the wild sea?

Well, those frogmen mostley came from submarines, hence no “swimming restriction” from Rome since submarines dont can operate in all seas. More over frogmen were used all over the ETO by other nations. Italy fought in the Mediterrean and Africa, but if the Axis would have been more successful they would most certainly have fought in other areas as well! That is the reason for not having any restrictions, except for one sub “frogmen attack” per turn.

[B.AnderssonGameMaster]

@Imperious:

I find problems with this:

Self Propelled Artillery
The Italian military lacked modern tanks to support their war effort. As the war progressed, Italy made significant advances in their self propelled artillery design.
Your artillery may give one matching infantry one additional movement allowance. The tank and the infantry unit must leave from the same territory.

Self- Propelled Artillery are basically large Artillery guns mounted on a tank chassis… 1) what did Italy have by way of this design? 2) how is it possible for entire infantry units to be piggybacked onto these machines? 3) Are you combining somehow the “idea” that since they are more mobile than artillery then somehow they must be supported by large groups of soldiers?

I think you may take a page from what i put up on Italian NA’s and see if something can be made better.

Alternative 3) it is! But maybe we should restrict it to just 2 in mobility and no piggy back ability!

[Imperious Leader]

yes i think they should move say two spaces and possibly defend at 3 because they are after all on strong tank metal frame.

The purpose was also as tank destroyers… possibly allowing for a hit to go against enemy armor.

Is this enough to finish it?

BTW: still waiting on the rest of the NA goodies from you…

[tekkyy]

@B.:

but if the Axis would have been more successful they would most certainly have fought in other areas as well! That is the reason for not having any restrictions, except for one sub “frogmen attack” per turn.

I like that. Simulation rather than historic replay.

[Imperious Leader]

yes its good.

[DasReich]

Hi guys,

Long time no see….

IMO the least realistic of the revised national advantages is Russian Winter. Why? Because we declare it. Why? Because you can not declare a winter. You can declare a defense line. You can declare a shipbuilding program. You can declare a Kamikaze attack, and so on, but it is mother nature that declares a severe winter…not Stalin!!!

Yes, in december of 1941 a severe winter stalled the german divisions at the gates of Moscow. Yes, Jukov chose this moment to launch a massive counterattack with fresh siberian divisions. That, my friends, is history. It is also luck, or karma or destiny, call it what you want. A dice roll is what it takes to implement this national advantage.

Had the winter been more gentle, who knows what would have happened? Hum?

Have a nice day!

[tekkyy]

Yes true.
Rather than declared, I sugguest change it to random.
Thats if we are still having Russian Winter at all  :-D

[B.AnderssonGameMaster]

@DasReich:

Hi guys,

Long time no see….

IMO the least realistic of the revised national advantages is Russian Winter. Why? Because we declare it. …

Try this one instead:

Scorched Earth
Whilst withdrawing from the front, the Soviets came to fight a war were they destroyed anything that might be useful to the Germans.
When the German player conquer any red territory, that territory has no value until the next round of play. The German player may not add a control marker on the just captured red territory, hence may not increase the National Production Chart correspondingly. If the territory is liberated during Russias turn, then the territory regains it’s value.

[Imperious Leader]

thats good. we need more…

[DasReich]

I tought maybe we could just roll a Die to determine severe winter cause i think this is historically representative. The germans were indeed not prepared to face russian winter.

But scorched earth is a good one too, the problem is that I dont see why the territory would regain it’s value one recaptured by tthe russians…

[Imperious Leader]

The rule is to simulate russian scorched policy. a different NA will be used for winter…

idea: after the german player has commited his attacks… the Soviet player declares a “Soviet Winter” all russians defend at +1 all Germans attack at -1 ( infantry do nothing)

[tekkyy]

@B.:

When the German player conquer any red territory, that territory has no value until the next round of play. The German player may not add a control marker on the just captured red territory, hence may not increase the National Production Chart correspondingly. If the territory is liberated during Russias turn, then the territory regains it’s value.

You want to delay income for one turn right?
We might have to reword it.
Phase 1 already made “collect income” before “combat”.

Also, what happens if the territory is liberated, on the next turn? or what about next round?

[Imperious Leader]

german collects income one full turn latter… so it dont get money for actually 2 turns

[DasReich]

About Scorched earth: I don’t think you should loose All the IPC’s from the territory. One IPC per territory would be enough for me. Sure, they did burn a few barns and destroy a bridge now and then but they didn’t just wipe cities off the map, right?

idea: after the german player has commited his attacks… the Soviet player declares a “Soviet Winter” all russians defend at +1 all Germans attack at -1 ( infantry do nothing)

I don’t see how Stalin would be able to declare a severe winter. Let’s make it random, shall we? When the german player has completed his combat movement sequence, and before conduct combat, the russian player may roll a die for severe winter. IE: on a roll of 1-3 a severe winter strikes and ennemy units attack and defend at -1. On a roll of 4-6 nothing happens…

[tekkyy]

@DasReich:

Sure, they did burn a few barns and destroy a bridge now and then but they didn’t just wipe cities off the map, right?

Firstly scorched earth is used by all power in one form or another in the war. Its a very old military tactic.
USSR happened to be most remembered for its use in WWII.
I do recall cities razed to the ground.

But yes you have a point. We’ll justify income being 0 by the cost of fixing basic things foir your troops since you are establishing control there.
Also realistically the damage should be permanent or last several rounds…but forget that.

I don’t see how Stalin would be able to declare a severe winter. Let’s make it random, shall we?

Yeah. We too have been thinking about making it random.
So I think Imperious Leader only means to sugguest the new effects.

[Imperious Leader]

yes it was only a suggestion:

“IE: on a roll of 1-3 a severe winter strikes and ennemy units attack and defend at -1. On a roll of 4-6 nothing happens…”

and yes it should be random… the only mandatory idea is the germans cant have forknowledge of it before they make committed attacks… they need to get stuck and feel the result. I like the idea that each turn you roll after axis have made combat movement… but i dont like the % a severe winter should be like a 1.