Alpha +3.0.beta project

[bracconebaldo]

Of course i did  :-) some of your ideas were similar TO
mine…some other are interesting

However i divided the bonuses because i find it unfair…both
For uk and japan…i’ve also reduced those regarding anzac
We can speak.about it when i’ll post us and anzac

[bracconebaldo]

ANZAC (Starting income 10 IPCs)

New South Wales: 2 infantry, 2 AAA, naval base, minor IC
Queensland: 2 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, air base, naval base
New Zealand: 1 infantry, 1 fighters, air base, naval base
Malaya: 1 infantry
SZ 62: 1 transport, 1 destroyer
SZ 63: 1 cruiser
• 5 IPCs if at war with Japan, the Allies control Malaya, and ANZAC controls all its original territories
• 3 IPCs if at war with Japan and if the Allies (not the Dutch) control Dutch New Guinea, New Britain, New Guinea, and the Solomons

US Pacific (starting IPCs 52)
Western United States: 2 infantry, 1 mechanized infantry, 1 artillery, 2 AAA, 1 fighter, 1 Tactical bomber, air base, naval base, major IC
Hawaiian Islands: 2 infantry, 1 fighters, air base, naval base
Midway: air base
Wake Island: air base
Guam: air base
Philippines: 2 infantry, 1 fighter, air base, naval base, 1 AAA
SZ 10: 1 transport, 1 destroyer, 1 cruiser, 1 aircraft carrier (carrying 1 fighter and 1 tactical bomber), 1 battleship
SZ 26: 1 transport, 1 submarine, 1 destroyer, 1 cruiser
SZ 35: 1 submarine, 1 destroyer
• 10 IPCs if at war and control of Western, Central and Eastern USA
• 5 IPCs if at war and control of Mexico, South Mexico, Central America and West Indies
• 5 IPCs if at war and control of Alaska, Aleutians, Hawaii, Johnston, and Line Islands
• 3 IPCs if at war and control of Philippines

[Witt]

As Gamerman says, Pacific map has too much Air.
Reducing Anzac and UK makes sense, but then the all powerful Japan must be stunted too.
How about removing one FT and one Tac from both Japan and Manchuria?
Possibly the Allied net gain would see them hold better on this map.
I would also like to see the US get an extra 5IPCs for holding the continental US NO. Consider making  it 15, not 10. They have to make more than Japan!

Should Russia swap 6 Inf in the East for 1 Tk and 3 Mech, so they can return to Moscow?
I know people who can too easily capture Moscow on G5; this would make it harder.

Anyone going to give this set up a go on AAA?

[bracconebaldo]

Against Japanese i’ve added AAA placed in every allies-controlled territories near Japan and reduced its ground forces against China, made stronger the UK with a new NO system…i’m not sure to reduce Japan power…i want a balanced game not a pro-allies gaming  :wink:

Russia…uhm, i’m studying the possibility to add some troops between Urali and Sakha, to represent Siberian troops, but i still don’t know if these will consist in only infantries (max 2) or other stuff (2 mech)!

I’ve tried this setup sunday with my friends…this is the “b” version of the starting +3.5 alpha :)

Anyone who wants to test it and report ideas is really welcome!

[Witt]

Thank you for responding to my observations.
Glad you could try it out too.

[bracconebaldo]

You’re always welcome!

I’ll try this setup again this sunday! The only way to test it, is to play it…

[bracconebaldo]

Is there someone out there??

Here mmy new idea for France

If Normandy and France territory are under German control at the Beginning of France T1, and South France it’s still free, roll a dice for every Territory or SZ controlled by French units except for South France (that automatically joins Axis as Vichy France):

if you roll “2-3” change french troops with Uk equivalent and UK marker placed in the same territory
if you roll “1” troops are disbanded and removed from table
if you roll “4 or better” troops (and territory they control) joins Axis and Vichy France

Vichy France has no Capital and no industrial complex; collects IPCs and buy new troops as every other power; during mobilization new units may be built anywhere there is a Value (ie: If a Territory has a Value of 3, then 3 INF may be built there.)
Japan still have the chance to occupy French Indochina.

So we’ll have a fourth optional axis power fighting along Italy German and Japan…what do you think?

[WILD BILL]

A couple comments for Vichy. I’ve played a game called Global War 1939. It has a topic in this forum under its own heading Global War. Some of the rules and are a bit much, but the Vichy rules are pretty cool (you should check it out if you haven’t).

We liked rolling for the French territories, units and ships in this variant (makes the game very interesting). I think you could adopt part of these rules for your experiment to the Global 1940 game.

Here are some possibilities, but feel free to change things up.

For the land:
For the territories (including units in them) you could set up a dice roll for each one after the fall of Paris (G1). Germany would set-up all their battles like normal, but the first land battle fought must be for Paris. Once Paris falls, the French player rolls a dice for every French territory which would include the units in those territories. These roles are done before the Germans continue their other land battles because it will effect the outcome.

Roll 1 territory and units become German (place German marker, and swap units for German units).

Roll 2-3 territory becomes Vichy, and any French units are now Vichy and can’t ever move (swap units use your imagination). Axis powers are allowed to move through them, but they will defend against the allies. The Germans collect the income from a Vichy territory, are allowed to build and can use all facilities (IC, NB AB). You could award control of Vichy S France to Italy I suppose (axis choice?). I would probably make FIC Vichy with income going to Japan once Japan moves a ground unit into it (that way Japan could still have the FIC NO).

Roll 4-5-6 territory and units stay Free French, and any battles set up by the Germans need to follow through.

For the sea:
I think it would be cool to have a more historic/accurate French Fleet to start (more ships), but once Paris falls (G1) the French player rolls a dice for each surviving ship. Because this would most likely happen on G1, any battles set up involving French boats would have to still be fought. In other words Vichy rule for ships would start after Germany’s combat round (but you could do it like the ground units and the French fleet is divided up before the sea battles). This could represent several things like UK taking control of some french ships while destroying others. Also would allow some french ships to fall to the axis. I wouldn’t put French capital ships in at set-up (but you could) because it could play havoc with balance if one side got a Battleship, or Carrier. It would make for some interesting outcomes, and maybe the Germans don’t hit a sz with both French and UK ships because they would have a chance to get some of them, or scuttle them w/o loss (I like the unknown).

Roll 1 ship is swapped for German or Italian (axis choice, and maybe move ship to nearest axis naval base)
Roll 2 ship is Vichy, can’t move (is now coastal defense), is friendly to axis, but will defend against the allies
Roll 3-4 ship is scuttled (could say UK killed it)
Roll 5 swap for UK ship (commandeered, maybe moved to nearest allied naval base)
Roll 6 stays French (free french)

[bracconebaldo]

Thank you for your time! We’re still testing so all ideas are welcome…
.this one is similar to that we actually use!

It’s interesting…but i prefer a simplier solution that make Vichy
More axis-friendly but in the case it doesn’t work i’ll keep your suggestions
In mind!

Thanks!

[bracconebaldo]

Here’s the final setup approved in my game club!

ANZAC
•New South Wales: 2 infantry, 2 AAA, naval base, minor IC
•Queensland: 2 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, air base, naval base
•New Zealand: 1 infantry, 1 fighters, air base, naval base
•Malaya: 1 infantry
•Egypt: 1 infantry
•SZ 62: 1 transport, 1 destroyer
•SZ 63: 1 cruiser
NO
(ANZAC at war with Japan)
• 5 IPCs if Allies control “Malaya” and ANZAC controls all of its original territories.
• 3 IPCs if Allies (not Dutch) control “Dutch New Guinea”, “New Britain”, “New Guinea”, and “Solomons Islands”.

FRANCE
•France: 6 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 2 Tank, 1 AA, 1 Fighter, Air Base, Major IC
•United Kingdom: 1 Infantry, 1 Fighter
•Normandy/Bordeaux: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery, Naval Base, Minor IC
•Southern France: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery, Naval Base, Minor IC
•French West Africa: 1 Infantry
•Morocco: 1 Infantry
•Algeria: 1 Infantry
•Tunisia: 1 Infantry
•Syria: 1 Infantry
•Sea Zone 83: 1 Destroyer
•Sea Zone 94: 1 Cruiser, 2 Destroyer
•Sea Zone 93: 1 Destroyer
•Sea Zone 110: 1 Cruiser
NO
•Once per game if “France” is liberated, the player controlling USA immediately places up to 12IPCs worth of infantry and artillery.

Vichy Rules(optional):
• If Germany controls “Normandy/Bordeaux” and “France” while “South France” it’s free, roll a dice for every french territory: with a result of 1 or 2 it passes under UK control (change french units with english one); with a result of 3+, the territory and units controlling it will join Vichy and Axis. “Souther France” automatically joins Axis, “London” automatically Allies (use ANZAC units for this purpose)
• Capitol city is “Southern France”.
• Japan and Vichy are allied together, but Japan can still occupy “French Indochina”.

UK
•United Kingdom: 2 Infantry, 1 Mechanized Infantry, 4 AAA, 2 Fighters, 1 Strategic Bomber, Air Base, Naval Base, Major IC
•Normandy: 1 infantry
•France: 1 infantry, 1 Artillery
•Scotland: 2 Infantry, 1 AAA, 1 Fighter, Air Base
•Iceland: Air Base
•Quebec: 1 Infantry, 1 Tank, Minor IC
•Ontario: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery
•New Brunswick Nova Scotia: Naval Base
•Gibraltar: 1 Fighter, Naval Base
•Malta: 1 Infantry, 1 AAA, 1 Fighter
•Alexandria: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Tank
•Egypt: 1 Infantry, 1 Mechanized Infantry, 1 Artillery, Naval Base
•Anglo-Egyptian Sudan: 1 Infantry
•Union of South Africa: 2 Infantry, Naval Base, Minor IC
•Sea Zone 71: 1 Destroyer
•Sea Zone 91: 1 Cruiser
•Sea Zone 98: 1 Transport, 1 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser, 1 Aircraft Carrier (Carrying 1 Tactical Bomber)
•Sea Zone 106: 1 Transport, 1 Destroyer
•Sea Zone 109: 1 Transport, 1 Destroyer
•Sea Zone 110: 1 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser, 1 Battleship
•Sea Zone 111: 1 Destroyer, 1 Cruiser, 1 Battleship
NO
(if UK is at war with Germany and Italy)
•3 IPCs if UK controls “Gibraltar” and “Egypt”.
•3 IPCs if UK controls “Quebec”, “Ontario” and “New Brunswick Nova Scotia” and US are in war with Axis.
•2 IPCS if there aren’t german submarine between SZ101 and 110.

ITALY
•Southern Italy: 6 infantry, 2 AAA, 2 fighter, air base, naval base, minor IC
•Northern Italy: 3 infantry, 2 artillery, 2 AAA, 1 tactical bomber major IC
•Albania: 2 infantry, 1 artillery
•Libya: 2 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 mechanized infantry
•Tobruk: 3 infantry, 1 mechanized infantry, 1 artillery, 1 tank
•Italian Somaliland: 1 infantry
•Ethiopia: 2 infantry, 1 artillery
•SZ 76: 1 submarine
•SZ 95: 1 transport, 2 submarine, 1 destroyer, 1 cruiser
•SZ 96: 1 transport, 1 destroyer
•SZ 97: 1 transport, 1 cruiser, 1 battleship
NO
(if Italy is at war with Uk and/or France)
•5 IPCS if there aren’t aliied warships in the mediterranean sea (SZ from 92 to 99).
•5 IPCs if Axis controls 3/4 of “Gibraltar”, “Southern France”, “Greece” and “Egypt”.
•5 IPCS if Axis controls “Morocco”, “Algeria”, “Tunisia”, “Libya”, “Tobruk” and “Alexandria”.
•2 IPCs per territory if Italy controls “Iraq”, “Persia” and/or “Northwest Persia”.
(if Italy is at war with Uk and allied with France of Vichy)
•3 IPCS if there aren’t aliied warships in the mediterranean sea (SZ from 92 to 99).
•3 IPCs if Axis controls 3/4 of “Gibraltar”, “Southern France”, “Greece” and “Egypt”.
•3 IPCS if Axis controls “Morocco”, “Algeria”, “Tunisia”, “Libya”, “Tobruk” and “Alexandria”.
•2 IPCs per territory if Italy controls “Iraq”, “Persia” and/or “Northwest Persia”.

UK PACIFIC
•India: 6 infantry, 1 artillery, 3 AAA, 1 fighter, 1 Mechanized infantry, air base, naval base, Major IC
•Burma: 2 infantry, 1 fighter
•Kwangtung; 2 infantry, naval base, 1 AAA
•Malaya: 3 infantry, naval base
•West India: 1 infantry
•SZ 37: Battleship
•Sz 39: 1 destroyer, 1 Cruiser, 1 transport
NO
(if UK pac is at war with Japan)
•3 IPCs if Uk controls “Malaya”.
•2 IPCS if Uk controls “Kwangtung”.

GERMANY
Germany: 11 Infantry, 3 Artillery, 3 AAA, 1 Tactical Bomber, 2 Strategic Bombers, Major IC
Western Germany: 3 Infantry, 4 Mechanized Infantry, 1 Artillery, 3 AAA, 2 Fighters, 3 Tactical bombers, Air Base, Naval Base, Major IC
Denmark: 2 Infantry
Norway: 3 Infantry, 1 Fighter
Holland/Belgium: 4 Infantry, 3 Artillery, 3 tanks, 1 Fighter
Greater Southern Germany: 6 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 3 tanks
Slovakia/Hungary: 2 Infantry, 1 Tank, 1 Fighter
Romania: 2 Infantry, 1 Tank
Poland: 3 Infantry, 1 Tank, 1 Tactical Bomber
Sea Zone 90: 1 Sub
Sea Zone 103: 1 Sub
Sea Zone 108: 1 Sub
Sea Zone 113: 1 Battleship
Sea Zone 114: 1 Transport, 1 Cruiser
Sea Zone 117: 1 Sub
Sea Zone 118: 1 Sub
Sea Zone 124: 1 Sub
NO
(If Germany is not at war with USSR)
• 5 IPCs (oil and wheat).                                   
(If Germany is at war with USSR)
• 5 IPCs per territory if Germany controls “Novgorod (Leningrad)”, “Volgograd (Stalingrad)” and/or “Russia (Moscow)”.       
• 3 IPCs if Axis controls “Romania”, “Bessarabia” and “Ukraine”.                           
• 3 IPCs if Axis controls “Caucasus”.                                       
(If Germany is at war with UK and France)
• 5 IPCs if Germany controls “Denmark” and “Norway” while “Sweden” it’s still neutral.   
•2 IPCs per territory if Germany controls “Iraq”, “Persia” and/or “Northwest Persia”.

USSR
•Karelia: 2 Infantry
•Archangel: 1 Infantry
•Russia: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Mechanized Infantry, 1 tank, 1 Fighter, 1 Tactical Bomber, 2 AAA, 1 Airbase, 1 Major IC
•Volgograd: 1 Infantry, 1 tank, 1 Mechanized Infantry, 1 Minor IC
•Caucasus: 2 Infantry
•Bessarabia: 2 Infantry
•Western Ukraine: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery
•Eastern Poland: 2 Infantry
•Baltic States: 2 Infantry
•Belarus: 1 Infantry
•Novgorod: 6 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Fighter, 2 AAA, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Minor IC
•Vyborg: 3 Infantry
•Ukraine: 3 Infantry, 1 Minor IC
•Timguska: 1 Infantry
•Evenkiyskiy: 1 infantry
•Amur: 6 Infantry
•Sakha: 5 Infantry, 2 AAA
•Buryatia: 6 Infantry
•Sea Zone 115: 1 Cruiser 1 submarine
•Sea Zone 127: 1 Sub
NO
(if USSR is at war with Germany and Italy)
•5 IPCs if USSR controls “Archangel”, the convoy in the SZ 125 it’s free from axis warships and there is not allied units in USSR.
•2 IPCs per territory if USSR controls original Axis or pro-Axis territory in Europe.
•10 IPCs once per game if USSR controls "Germany (Berlin)”.

JAPAN
•Japan: 6 Infantry, 2 Artillery, 1 Tank, 2 Fighters, 2 Tactical Bombers, 1 Bomber, 3 AAA, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base, 1 Major IC
•Manchuria: 6 Infantry, 1 Mechanized Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 AAA, 2 Fighters, 2 Tactical Bombers
•Palau Island: 1 Infantry
•Kiangsi: 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery
•Formosa: 1 Fighter
•Shantung: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery
•Kwangsi: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery
•Iwo Jima: 1 Infantry
•Jehol: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery
•Caroline Islands: 2 Infantry, 1 AA gun, 1 Airbase, 1 Naval Base
•Siam: 2 Infantry
•Okinawa: 1 Infantry, 1 Fighter
•Kiangsu: 3 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 1 Fighter, 1 Tactical Bomber.
•Korea: 4 Infantry, 1 Fighter
•Sea Zone 6: 1 Submarine, 2 Destroyers, 2 Carriers (carrying 2 Tactical Bombers/2 Fighter), 1 Cruiser, 1 Battleship, 1 Transport
•Sea Zone 19: 1 Submarine, 1 Battleship, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
•Sea Zone 33: 1 Destroyer, 1 Carrier (carrying 1 Tactical Bomber/1 Fighter),
•Sea Zone 20: 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport. 1 Submarine
NO
(if Japan is not at war with US and “French Indochina" is controlled by France)
• 10 IPCs
(if Japan is at war with UK and ANZAC)
• 3 IPCs if Japan controls “Sumatra” and “Borneo”.
• 3 IPCs if Japan controls “Java” and “Celebes”.
(if Japan is at war with USA)
• 5 IPCs if Japan controls “Guam”, “Midway”, “Wake” and “Carolines Island”.
• 3 IPCs if Japan controls “Hawaii”.

USA
•Western US: 2 infantry, 1 mechanized infantry, 1 artillery, 2 AAA, 1 fighter, 1 Tactical bomber, air base, naval base, minor IC*
•Central US: 1 infantry,3 mechanized infantry, 1 tank, 1 bomber, air base, minor IC*
•Eastern US: 1 infantry, 1 artillery, 2 AAA, 1 fighter, air base, naval base, minor IC*
•Hawaiian Islands: 2 infantry, 1 fighters, 1 AAA, air base, naval base
•Midway: air base
•Wake Island: air base
•Guam: air base
•Philippines: 2 infantry, 1 fighter, air base, naval base, 1 AAA
•SZ 10: 1 transport, 1 destroyer, 1 cruiser, 1 aircraft carrier (carrying 1 fighter /1 tactical bomber), 1 battleship
•SZ 26: 1 transport, 1 submarine, 1 destroyer, 1 cruiser, 1 battleship
•SZ 35: 1 submarine, 1 destroyer
•SZ 101: 1 cruiser, 1 transport
NO
(if US are at war with Axis)
• 10 IPCs if US controls “Western US, “Central US” and “Eastern US”.
• 5 IPCs if US controls “Mexico”, “South Mexico”, “Central America” and “West Indies”.
• 5 IPCs if US controls “Alaska”, “Aleutians”, “Hawaii”, “Johnston” and “Line Islands”.
• 3 IPCs if US controls “Philippines”.

CHINA
• Szechwan: 6 infantry, 1 fighter
• Hunan: 2 infantry
• Yunnan: 4 infantry
• Kweichow: 2 infantry
• Shensi: 2 infantry
• Suiyuyan: 2 infantry
NO
•5 IPCs if Allies control “India”, “Burma”, “Yunnan” and “Szechwan”.

[ghr2]

I have issues with the neutering of UK and ANZAC in starting units while axis either stays the same or is buffed.  Aside from that, I like the idea behind this.

[bracconebaldo]

what do you think about the new NOs i added?

[bracconebaldo]

nobody else?  :?

[BluGerman]

three things
1. I think you typed in a different language when talking about the German NO of holding the Caucuses :p

2. Why did you remove all ANZAC presence from North Africa?…. If anything ANZAC presence there needed to be buffed :p

3. for historical and Gameplay reasons I think you should give Russia 2 or 3 tanks/mechs in the far east bordering manchuria

[bracconebaldo]

1. i wrote in italian lol! (i’m italian)
2. i removed just 1 infantry 'cause the reinforcements from anzac arrived in north africa after the first italian offensive in 1940 (maybe i should put 1 or 2 infantries somewhere else in the board?)
3. should i give those units in place of some infantries or not?

[ghr2]

@bracconebaldo:

1. i wrote in italian lol! (i’m italian)
2. i removed just 1 infantry 'cause the reinforcements from anzac arrived in north africa after the first italian offensive in 1940 (maybe i should put 1 or 2 infantries somewhere else in the board?)
3. should i give those units in place of some infantries or not?

2 anac infantry and 1 anzac transport in india?  maybe west india?

[BluGerman]

1. Yes, replace 3 inf with ideally 2 mechs and 1 (maybe 2) tanks as to not Give Soviets to strong of a presence but still A. represent the armored presence that was kept there throughout the war due to border skirmishes B. Have a full retreat to Moscow start showing it’s benefits before round 7 :p

2. I think it is a bit weird to have ANZAC sitting in or off the coast of India. Personally i would say to have the ANZAC forces be in Egypt as it is within a couple of months after the game starting that they got there. However, if you were to have the forces not starting in Egypt I think the smartest thing to do would to have 2 inf and 1 artillery sitting in either a transport ship in the red sea or already landed in trans-Jordan

Keep up the good work Braccon :)

P.S. I have no idea how you would balance it and you would have to break the rules to do so, But what about an IC in amur?. when Germans were assaulting Moscow most of the Soviet Tanks were being made and shipped from the far east and the also had the important port city of Vladivostok there which could serve as a naval base. Again it probably would never work considering Amur is worth 1 and it might make Russians and Japanese at eachothers throats for Amur and Manchuria but it has always been an intriguing idea to me

[ghr2]

@BluGerman:

1. Yes, replace 3 inf with ideally 2 mechs and 1 (maybe 2) tanks as to not Give Soviets to strong of a presence but still A. represent the armored presence that was kept there throughout the war due to border skirmishes B. Have a full retreat to Moscow start showing it’s benefits before round 7 :p

2. I think it is a bit weird to have ANZAC sitting in or off the coast of India. Personally i would say to have the ANZAC forces be in Egypt as it is within a couple of months after the game starting that they got there. However, if you were to have the forces not starting in Egypt I think the smartest thing to do would to have 2 inf and 1 artillery sitting in either a transport ship in the red sea or already landed in trans-Jordan

Keep up the good work Braccon :)

P.S. I have no idea how you would balance it and you would have to break the rules to do so, But what about an IC in amur?. when Germans were assaulting Moscow most of the Soviet Tanks were being made and shipped from the far east and the also had the important port city of Vladivostok there which could serve as a naval base. Again it probably would never work considering Amur is worth 1 and it might make Russians and Japanese at each others throats for Amur and Manchuria but it has always been an intriguing idea to me

I would say urals, novosibirsk, or samara would be better choices for IC  since Japan can easily stomp amur J1(make 1 of them worth 2 ipcs).

Even better idea, give russia some once per game special ability: at the beginning of their turn (before purchases), they can remove the Ukraine IC from the board(if under their control) and move it to one of the territories I listed or something like that.  Have it placed at their collect income phase so they can’t place new units there the turn it was moved.

Maybe add an IPC cost to do it or something.

Russia did pack up factories that were close to the front and moved them towards the Ural mountains in the real war.

[ghr2]

If factory has damage on it, russia needs to repair it completely to move it.

[ghr2]

This should be moved to House Rules.