Nov24th 1863: Confederate hopes dashed in Tennessee.

[Witt]

I told Cromwell I wanted to delve deep and discover my opinion on AS Johnston.
He remains an enigma and will for a while as I have so much to read on othet subjects before I can research him in detail. I will.
Like JoJo you have to go on his first assignment. He messed up. Shiloh was a late reaction to the loss of the two forts. He was the Western commander and because of his Southern upbringing and therefore, forelock pulling, respect of men of power(wealth) refused to sack incompetent men. The forts were held by political appointees, unworthy of the men they commanded. Despite lacking modern firearms, the Donelson garrison broke Grant’s siege and made an escape route. They were ordered back to the fort by an idiotic ommander.
Johnston has to be held accountable for his subordinates’ bad decisions: he allowed them to remain in important posts. Donelson was the start of the rot.
Shiloh and its planning, by Johnston, cannot make up for this shortfall.

[barney]

politics on both sides in the west and everywhere else for that matter. If the Fed’s would have concentrated instead of having basically 3 seperate armies there would have been little the south could have done to stop them.

[Witt]

Hi Barney. Concentration and going after the enemy’s main theatre army eventually won it for the North, you are right.

[barney]

Yea I really don’t know what the south could’ve done out west.  Definitely would have helped if the acerbic Bragg wasn’t in charge.  I think Johnston not getting slayed at Shiloh would have helped as well. They had a chance to destroy Grant before Buell got there. It would have taken a lot out of them though. Johnston was a little reckless with his personal safety. Should have left that stuff for people like  Forrest.

Don’t know if Lee would have made a difference either. While united the southern states were pretty clannish as well. His authority might not have been accepted the way it was in Virginia. Of course loosing the high ground at Chattanooga was inexcusable, but so were the actions of Wood at Chickamauga.

[Witt]

I think Wood asked for the order to move to be repeated twice. I am no sure he could have done more. Was one of the most fortuitous moments in the South’s war. They certainly had their fair share of unlucky ones.
You might be right about Lee. Not that he would have gone West.
I have read a lot about Shiloh and it is a mess of a battle, like most ones fought in wooded horrible terrain, where cohesion and orders easily go astray and where it is often easier to send units  headlong at the enemy(especially green ones)rather than try and manoeuvre for the flank.

[ABWorsham4]

@wittmann:

I think Wood asked for the order to move to be repeated twice. I am no sure he could have done more. Was one of the most fortuitous moments in the South’s war. They certainly had their fair share of unlucky ones.
You might be right about Lee. Not that he would have gone West.
I have read a lot about Shiloh and it is a mess of a battle, like most ones fought in wooded horrible terrain, where cohesion and orders easily go astray and where it is often easier to send units  headlong at the enemy(especially green ones)rather than try and manoeuvre for the flank.

Forrest and Sherman were almost both killed at Shiloh.
From what i have read Johnston lost control of the Battle by getting involved in leading individual units into battle.

[Witt]

The worst part of the plan was to have each Corps behind each other rather than side by side.
None of the 6 higher commanders really had a clue that day. It was one Regiment attacking one at a time, getting exhausted, then replaced by another.
Those who realised what was happening, were not heeded(Forrest in particular).
On the Union side, Lew Wallace couldn’t even find the battle!
It was not the sort of battle to show off the South’s attacking prowess, but was to prove a training ground for many.

[ABWorsham4]

@wittmann:

I told Cromwell I wanted to delve deep and discover my opinion on AS Johnston.
He remains an enigma and will for a while as I have so much to read on othet subjects before I can research him in detail. I will.
Like JoJo you have to go on his first assignment. He messed up. Shiloh was a late reaction to the loss of the two forts. He was the Western commander and because of his Southern upbringing and therefore, forelock pulling, respect of men of power(wealth) refused to sack incompetent men. The forts were held by political appointees, unworthy of the men they commanded. Despite lacking modern firearms, the Donelson garrison broke Grant’s siege and made an escape route. They were ordered back to the fort by an idiotic ommander.
Johnston has to be held accountable for his subordinates’ bad decisions: he allowed them to remain in important posts. Donelson was the start of the rot.
Shiloh and its planning, by Johnston, cannot make up for this shortfall.

I visited Fort Donelson and my first thoughts overlooking the river was what an awesome position to command the River. The Southerns had perfect platforms to aim and fire into an attacking fleet. The outline of many of the fort’s trenches located on the hills behind the Confederates artillery could still be seen. The monument to unknown C.S.A men buried in mass unmarked graves stopped me in my tracks and stirred up many emotions. My oldest son asked me why we could only see Union gravestones, I simple told him because they won the battle.

[Witt]

Thank you. I am jealous of you Americans for the well kept recent Battlefields you have (and in which I am so interested). You must be so happy your children have an interest too.
I have seen English ones, but being much older they are not so  well marked or preserved. As for the European WW2 ones, seems an age since I last went now!

[barney]

Whoa!

The confederate dead aren’t acknowledged?  I would imagine the force that held the field wouldn’t spend much time on rebel graves, but the Park Service of today should.
The combatants were on different sides , but they were all Americans.

[ABWorsham4]

They are honored by the largest statue at the park placed there in 1933, but many of the large unmarked mass graves are undiscovered.