Delta +1

[oztea]

Can’t you make it any more simple.
This neutral buy in just keeps getting more and more elaborate.

[Young Grasshopper]

@oztea:

Can’t you make it any more simple.
This neutral buy in just keeps getting more and more elaborate.

My latest offer is very simple compared to past formulas.

[Imperious Leader]

The modifier formula is fun, but it may not work well for all neutrals. How about this……

1. State the neutral you wish to negotiate with.
2. Pay $5 to roll 2d6 @ 10 or higher.
3. If failed, pay $5 and get a -1 modifier for each attempt afterward for the same neutral only.
4. If successful, the standing army immediately become your troops, without needing a NCM.

I think this is a good compromise between rolling craps and box cars.

Also… When attacking strict neutrals outright, only neutrals in the same block become pro-opponent. The 4 neutral blocks are:

1. South America
2. Europe (including middle east)
3. Africa (not including middle east)
4. Mongolia

Yes this will work, except not fond of the others going pro opponent. For example: The politics of Spain have no bearing on Turkey,Sweden or the Swiss, So i don’t see how Turkey, Sweden or Switzerland goes pro allies, if Germany attacks Spain. But it a better concept than OOB.

[oztea]

Simple is two sentences, not “modifiers”

[oztea]

I think it would be better to use just a simple influence system.
On your turn you can try and bribe any neutral to become pro-axis or pro-allies. You sway them on a 6. Each die roll costs as much as the amount of infantry that are there.
(a roll in spain costs 6, turkey 8 )

PLOT TWIST.
They don’t change their allegiance till the end of your turn, so the enemy has a chance to preemptively attack them on their turn.

[Imperious Leader]

I think it would be better to use just a simple influence system.
On your turn you can try and bribe any neutral to become pro-axis or pro-allies. You sway them on a 6. Each die roll costs as much as the amount of infantry that are there.
(a roll in Spain costs 6, turkey Cool

And if you fail, you pay another 6 IPC and the score is reduced to 5+.

Fail again and pay 6 IPC and the score is 4+

The enemy can also pay 6 IPC as influence and cancel the modifier.

This allows both sides to fight the diplomacy war.

This idea is more wholesome.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Imperious:

I think it would be better to use just a simple influence system.
On your turn you can try and bribe any neutral to become pro-axis or pro-allies. You sway them on a 6. Each die roll costs as much as the amount of infantry that are there.
(a roll in Spain costs 6, turkey Cool

And if you fail, you pay another 6 IPC and the score is reduced to 5+.

Fail again and pay 6 IPC and the score is 4+

The enemy can also pay 6 IPC as influence and cancel the modifier.

This allows both sides to fight the diplomacy war.

This idea is more wholesome.

I like it too.

[oztea]

Well just make sure the change happens at the end of the turn. So the US can’t turn Spain, and land a zillion things there unopposed. Germany has chance to attack and invade it and put a stack there.

[Imperious Leader]

Call it diplomacy phase, done after placement with costs paid from money collected that turn.

[Young Grasshopper]

THE DIPLOMACY PHASE

In the “diplomacy phase” (the final phase of the turn sequence) any nation may negotiate with a strict neutral in order to occupy them.

During the diplomacy phase, you may choose 1 strict neutral to negotiate with, and pay cash in the amount equal to the standing army of that chosen territory. You than roll one 6 sided die for an opportunity to roll a 6. If successful, you immediately occupy that territory, and replace it’s standing army with your own troops. If failed, you may try again next turn with a -1 modifier to your diplomacy roll (only when negotiating with the same neutral). However, the cost of diplomacy rolls will always equal the standing army in every attempt.

Each time an enemy nation negotiates with the same strict neutral you have negotiated with, you will gain a +1 modifier to your diplomacy roll when attempting to negotiate with that neutral (maximum +5). Modifiers are not transferable among allies.

[Young Grasshopper]

NEUTRAL BLOCKS

When a nation attacks a strict neutral territory, all remaining strict neutrals within that block will become pro-opponent.

The 4 neutral blocks are….

1. South America
2. Europe (including the middle east)
3. Africa (not including the middle east)
4. Mongolia

[Imperious Leader]

If failed, you may try again next turn with a -1 modifier to your diplomacy roll (only when negotiating with the same neutral).

You got to clarify that you must pay another fee to get the roll, not like tech.

Also, i hope you keep a file on all these ideas.

The forum can tackle each new idea, but you got to maintain records.

Latter repost the entire body of ideas as a module.

IMO.

[knp7765]

Now it sounds even cooler. So now it would be possible to take over a strict neutral without even being adjacent. For example, on G1 Germany could negotiate with Turkey and bring it into the Axis even though it would be pretty much impossible for Germany to have any troops adjacent to Turkey by the end of G1.

By the way, we use Neutral blocks too, but we use five:
1 South America - all South American countries
2 Africa - all territories in Africa
3 Europe - Portugal, Spain, Eire, Switzerland and Sweeden
4 Middle East - Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan
5 Mongolia - all Mongolian territories

We just figured Turkey fits in better with the Middle East than Europe, even though a small part of Turkey is on the European continent.

[Imperious Leader]

By the way, we use Neutral blocks too, but we use five:
1 South America - all South American countries
2 Africa - all territories in Africa
3 Europe - Portugal, Spain, Eire, Switzerland and Sweden
4 Middle East - Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan
5 Mongolia - all Mongolian territories

Id make this change too. Middle east has separate issues than Europe.

So what is the next idea for Delta?

[Young Grasshopper]

IMO Turkey is the most important strict neutral on the board. Turning SA and Afganastan is not enough risk for attacking Turkey, sometimes you need to trade history for game play. Also, some maybe more inclined to use the diplomacy phase if it were more risky to attack Europe.

IL, I will for sure keep records of our progress, and will edit the above rule.

The next issue is ethier a better victory condition end game system, or to tackle the tech charts.

[oztea]

Are you considering tackling the strategic bombing equation?

A) Advanced Strategic Bombing
1. Day and Night Raids

• A night raid may only be launched by units originating from an operative air base.
• The attacker may opt for a Night Raid. The “Interceptors” and “+2 Damage Bonus” rules are suspended.
• Daylight bombing is conducted as per normal rules.
  2. Dog fighting bonuses
• Interceptors in a territory with an operational air base intercept at +1 (‘2’ or less to hit)
• Heavy Bombers dog fight at +1 (‘2’ or less to hit)
• Jet Fighters intercept and escort at +1 (‘2’ or less to hit) (‘3’ or less when intercepting from an airbase)
  3. Collateral Damage
• Rolls of ‘1’ during daylight strategic bombing my instead be dealt as “collateral damage”
• Collateral damage is a hit against a unit in that territory or adjacent sea zone, assigned by the defender
• Air Base (air unit or assigned AA gun is chosen as a casualty)
• Naval Base (adjacent naval unit or assigned AA gun is chosen as a casualty)
• Industrial Complex (land unit or assigned AA gun is chosen as a casualty)
  4. AA gun requirement
• Facilities no longer have built in AA protection. At the beginning of the Strategic Attack the defender must assign AA guns to each facility in order for it to have AA protection. Each AA gun may only fire three times.
  5. Airbases give boosts to interceptors and strategic attacks
• Strategic bombers launched from an operational airbase do an additional +1 (now +3) damage during strategic attacks.
• Interceptors that share a territory with an operational airbase hit on ‘2’ or less during dog fights.

[Young Grasshopper]

Personaly I don’t think there is anything wrong with the SBR rules, but I like the concept without all the complexity (no offense). How about this….

Around the clock bombing raid:

When departing from an operational airbase, Bombers may bomb on their allies turn, but may not send their own escorts.

Ex: Itallian bombers may bomb on Germany’s combat round when accompanied by at least one German bomber, but may not use Itallian escorts. Germany can bomb on Italy’s combat round when accompanied by at least 1 Itallian bomber, but may not use German escorts.

[Imperious Leader]

I think the SBR rules are fine, except if you play with techs and get jet fighters, the defending interceptors should roll 2 or less ( not one) if defending for SBR.

Also, sorry to go back to last section but…

I think i got a better idea on diplomacy phase.

Use Turkey for example… pay 6 IPC and need a 6 to score pro-allegiance. A player should not have to pay more money if they fail, rather you get one roll each turn like tech.

HOWEVER, you also have the option of paying another 6 IPC ( Turkey as example) to OBTAIN a lower threshold on die roll ( 5-6). At this point you paid a total of 12 IPC and roll once each turn 5-6. You can even pay another increment of 6 and get to 4-6 for success.

Also, what you pay is only for that neutral, you cant switch to another neutral ( unless you pay that money too)…the money you pay is only for that neutral you originally selected.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Imperious:

I think i got a better idea on diplomacy phase.

I agree IL, lets keep workinhg on this, we can do better.

[Imperious Leader]

Yes, in the case of Turkey, those 6 Infantry are only worth 18 IPC, so i cant see the benefit of diplomacy if you pay 18 IPC for 3 rolls…

Makes more sense that you get another roll each turn like tech, with option of lowering the score by paying another fee. Thats fair all around and not more complicated.