Paul,
We had no internet when I got home last night so I was not able to post the pictures. However, we have it now and I am uploading them as I write this. After supper, I will post them. Look for them later this evening.
Since internet at home sucks, I was only able to upload 2/3 of my pictures today. The rest will be up tomorrow morning.
These are mostly profile pictures so Paul can determine how the numbering schemes look. Due to space/color issues, I had to make some modifications from the original intent. However, I can say these modifications will make the planes look more true to their historical representations.
This scheme is what many would consider the prototypical Luftwaffe camo. Which is why Paul chose it. This is a large batch (8 of each aircraft below) with (4) planes of each type in the colorless scheme, (2) in red and (2) in yellow. The Ju-52 transports all have white markings for recognition purposes. There will also be swastika decals on the tails of most planes, however, since I am still working on them and handle the tails a lot in the process, I have not yet put them on. They will probably be the last thing done.
While they are very nearly done, they are not final products. And I always seem to want for better lighting.
Here is No. 1:
HBG Ju-488 - designation H+1 (for Heavy Bomber)
As you may or may not be able to see, there is a molding issue to be dealt with here. Right where the red ‘H’ is, there is also a sizable divot from the plastic mold which distorts decals placed on it. I may be able to fix this issue with an extremely small amount of contour putty, but I am unsure of the result and have never attempted that before.
No. 2 HBG Me-262 - designation J+3 (for Jet Fighter)
Again, not finished. Needs some touch up. I had to use the black numbers over the yellow stripe because white numbers would have been virtually invisible.
No. 3 HBG Ju-52 - designation T+2 (for Transport Aircraft)
Paul’s preference was that the transports be easily identifiable by the white markings.
Again, not final product. Paint needs touch up work before the shipment.
Nice work Hoff!
No. 4 HBG Do-17 Medium Bomber - designation not assigned
This was one that we forgot about Paul. I assume we will give designation ‘M’ for Medium Bomber, but I wanted to check with you first. We should have enough decals (red and yellow) for this designation, but I will have to check tomorrow when I have access to my materials again.
As with some others, this still needs canopy work.
Here is one overall to chew on until tomorrow. One is with flash the other without, because you can see different attributes better in one vs the other.
Have to go for now, but will properly annotate tomorrow. Thanks boys.
Next: HBG Me-110 - designation L+3 (for Long Range Fighter)
Next: OOB Ju-87 Stuka - designation D+5 and D+3 (for Dive Bomber)
The first is an example of the ‘plain scheme’ - eg, no coloring. As with the plain scheme, the colored versions will also have a black nose cone when complete.
Next: HBG Fw-190 - designation F+1 (for Fighter)
Last: OOB He-111 - designation M+3 (for Medium Bomber)
Still needs some detail work
Paul,
There are a few things to consider here:
Decal colors for the numbering are subject to your approval. As you can see I had to make a few minor modifications to what we discussed. Mainly for visibility purposes. But if you would prefer white as opposed to black, you is da boss
Secondly, there arose an issue I had not yet foreseen… When viewing the aircraft from the left side (as they are pictured here) everything is fine. However, when viewed from the right, the decal line will be reversed. This will pose a problem with the colored aircraft because of the stripe. See picture for reference. This creates issues with the colored letters used as they may end up in the stripe and again be invisible. As you can see in the below picture, if the ‘1’ were yellow, it would be visible on the left side, but it would be in the stripe on the right side. A similar situation occurs for us.
If we want to keep the numbering scheme as is with and Alpha + #, I can simply change the color of the letter on the other side to be black on yellow stripes or black/white on red stripes.
If we want to keep the same color letter on both sides, we only have to add another number in front of the Alpha such that: #A+#. This will allow me to put either the first number or the last number in the stripe and not the letter, thereby keeping the same color letter on both sides.
However, the fighters will not take any more numbers and must remain A+#. There is simply no room for more decals. FYI, the decals I have applied for the colored letters are the smallest ones, even though they seem oversized.
Because of all these issues. I have not decaled the right side of the planes yet. Only the left sides have decals, until i know how you want me to proceed.
Lucas,
––I want to let you know that all of your work up to this point on these German aircraft is very evident and excellent!
––Since there are several questions to be answered I’ll do it in separate responses. First, the “Alpha” designator for the different types of aircraft are listed below:
A…attack…none yet
E…early fighter…ME-109
F…fighter…FW-190
L…long-range fighter…ME-110
J…jet fighter…ME-262
D…bomber, dive…JU-87
M…bomber, medium…HE-111, JU-88
H…bomber, heavy…JU-488
R…reconnaissance…DO-17
T…transport…JU-52
----Note,…the DO-17 is to be lettered “R” as a recon bird as previously discussed.
“Tall Paul”
@Tall:
––Note,…the DO-17 is to be lettered “R” as a recon bird as previously discussed.
Looks good. I remember the ‘R’ for Reconnaissance, but for some reason I don’t think I noted the Do-17 next to it. No problem though.
Superb work. I especially love the all grey Stuka and your Iron Annie.
Tall Paul you are a lucky man.
Lucas,
––These ‘prototypes’ have uncovered many good and some bad things I’ll discuss in general and then in specific terms.
----The BLACK numbers/letters in the YELLOW and/or WHITE stripes look GREAT! :-D
----The YELLOW and WHITE “Alpha” letters look GREAT! :-D
----The RED “alpha” letters and numbers do NOT seem to show up well, even when much magnified. :-(
To me they are hard to read and not obvious. I think we should drop the RED “alpha” letters and/or numbers on all of the RED colored a/c.
----As far as specifics of letters/numbers goes I understand what you’re saying concerning when the opposite side of the a/c is decalled. Use this as your pattern:
YELLOW colored a/c will have:
–YELLOW letters or numbers when they are NOT located in the stripe.
–BLACK letters or numbers when they ARE located in the stripe.
WHITE colored a/c will have:
–WHITE letters or numbers when they are NOT located in the stripe.
–BLACK letters or numbers when they ARE located in the stripe.
RED colored a/c will have:
–WHITE letters or numbers when they are NOT located in the stripe.
–WHITE letters or numbers when they ARE located in the stripe.
NON colored a/c will have:
–YELLOW letters and numbers. Since there are no stripes, no allowances have to be made.
----Also, a general note on engine coloring would have the SLOWER bomber units having only a “spare tire” ring of color around their engine nacelles whereas the FASTER fighter units would have an enlarged coloring of their noses.
----Some specifics:
The ME-110 long-range fighter would have an enlarged engine coloring (like you did),
whereas the HE-111 should only have a “spare tire” ring of color on their engines (too much color here).
----Please understand that these are NOT criticisms of your painting abilities. Only observations on what we’ve talked about and what the ‘prototypes’ have uncovered. I have ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT that I will be totally pleased with these a/c whenever they are completed. Please, if you have any questions/suggestions/problems just let me know as we both want these a/c to be as fantastic looking as your paint jobs deserve.
“Tall Paul”
@Tall:
––Also, a general note on engine coloring would have the SLOWER bomber units having only a “spare tire” ring of color around their engine nacelles whereas the FASTER fighter units would have an enlarged coloring of their noses.
----Some specifics:
The ME-110 long-range fighter would have an enlarged engine coloring (like you did),
whereas the HE-111 should only have a “spare tire” ring of color on their engines (too much color here).
Good… everything is clear and we are all set. And I am not above criticism of my work, so you do not need to apologize… after all you are the boss! Either way, your preferences will be acted upon.
However, I would respectfully disagree regarding the He-111s - of the colored examples, I have only seen pictures with the entire engine cowling covered. I have never seen He-111s with only the ‘spare-tire’ configuration. See below:
This link shows a number of different He-111 camo schemes, none of which have the ‘spare-tire’ paint scheme.http://heinkel111.narod.ru/camouflage.htm
Of course, if you prefer the ‘spare tire’ look, I can do that, with only minor trouble, but if you want them historically accurate, then I believe this scheme is more proper. Again, your call.
Lucas,
––OK, let’s do the HE-111s with the larger coloring. My main reasoning behind the “size” of the colors was NOT for historical accuracy,….but another way we could easily (and from a distance) tell exactly the TYPE of a/c it is. IMHO the SIZE of the a/c itself is clue enough as to it’s type and to differentiate it from a long-range fighter,… the ME-210.
----I encourage YOU to make any/all comments just like the one above, especially if they concern a painting/decalling problem.
“Tall Paul”
Lucas,
––I also wanted to say I think the JU-52 transports look GREAT! These came out even nicer than I hoped. I realize these pics are only of the ‘prototypes’ but I thought I’d mention that it needs another coat of the White paint. I realize it’s almost impossible to cover a dark color with White paint. Wow,…looks great, though! It might only be the lighting that makes the paint look other than bright white.
----Later we will come back and do some Desert and Winter paint schemes on these JU-52s. I will be very happy to have a tiny copy of the JU-52 that was in one of my favorite WW2 movies, “Where Eagles Dare”. It even included my man “Clint” in it.
––We’ll add it to the Tiger tank from “Kelly’s Heroes” and the HE-111 from “Patton”.
“Tall Paul”
