The Global 1940 game has always had an issue with the R&D Phase not being used, due to an unbalanced dynamic of risk vs. reward. Over the past few months I have seen a lot of people promoting the idea of laboratory facilities, but there seems to be a political gap between everyone on the details of the rule.
I would like to reopen the discussion with a fresh start, because I believe that there is a great opportunity here to rewrite this rule, and make it universal amongst the hard core players here. I also have extra motivation to organize us on this, as my group won’t play house rules unless they are widely accepted by this community, so please help me fix this R&D situation so I can see more tech in our games.
Here is my interpretation of the concept of using laboratories for research & development:
RESEARCH FACILITIES:
During the “purchase new units phase”, Any nation who is at war, who holds their own capital, and has an eligible territory, may purchase “research facilities” for $12 each. During the “place new units phase”, research facilities must be placed on an originally owned territory (only one per territory) with an IPC value of 3 or more.
During the “research and development phase”, each operational research facility may roll 1d6 for an opportunity to roll a 6 (only research facilities that were on the board prior to the research and development phase may make research rolls). If a facility rolls a 6 during research, they have made a technological breakthrough (regardless of how may 6s are rolled, a nation may only make 1 breakthrough per round).
When a breakthrough has been achieved, that technology is available immediately. However, 1 research facility must be flipped for one full round making it unable to roll a research dice during the next research and development phase. The facility may be flipped back during the repair phase of the following turn, making it operational again (regardless of how many 6s are rolled, a nation need flip only 1 research facility per breakthrough).
During a strategic bombing raid, research facilities (flipped or not) follow all the same damage, interceptor and repair rules as a minor complex, including built in AA Guns, and being vulnerable to strategic bombers only. If a research facility is captured by an enemy nation however, the invading player may choose to keep the facility for themselves, or have the facility destroyed in order to steal one technology from the conquered nation.
New Turn Sequence
1. Repair Units
2. Research & Development
3. Purchase New Units
4. Combat Movement
5. Conduct Combat
6. Non-Combat Movement
7. Place New Units
8. Collect New Income
I recommend using the tokens from the A&A 50th AE as facilities, or getting some through HBG.
A new sequence will allow for repairing, developing breakthroughs, and purchasing accordingly.
China is ineligible to use research facilities due to purchase restrictions, and not having a capital.
Russia & the United Kingdom are limited to building only one research facility each.
India has 3 possible territories for building research facilities (Borneo is ineligible as it’s an island).
America can build 3 research facilities, but like Russia, must wait until they are at war.
The only chance for ANZAC to develop technology, is to capture an enemy research facility.
Germany has the most eligible territories for building research facilities at 7, Italy has 2.
I have deliberately left out any ideas for breakthrough charts because that aspect of the rule has the greatest political gap among us. I would like us to discuss the research phase only, because we can all use our own breakthrough charts later. As long as we can bridge the gap on the research phase instead of the development phase, we may have a chance to make “Laboratories” a universal house rule with a sticky post in this forum. We can talk about “Mexican Conscripts” and “Game Ending A-Bombs” in a later thread.
ok a few concerns…
Is this your idea?
Before you paid 5 IPC and got to roll every turn till you got a 6 and then the investment is done.
Now you pay 12 IPC and still need to roll a 6, but once you do after a turn the process starts again…you don’t lose the investment.
China does not have a 3 IPC space, and i think the damage should be for whatever factory you got as far as damage is done by SBR. ( not limited to 6 IPC).
lastly, HBG has research laboratory tokens and other related tokens.
@Imperious:
ok a few concerns…
Is this your idea?
I have picked the meat off bones from many “laboratory house rule” skeletons in this forum, but a few small adjustments are my own.
Before you paid 5 IPC and got to roll every turn till you got a 6 and then the investment is done.
Now you pay 12 IPC and still need to roll a 6, but once you do after a turn the process starts again…you don’t lose the investment.
Correct, a $12 investment could bring multiple tech breakthroughs if a nation keeps their facilities operational and is lucky at rolling 6s. Also, nations who build multiple facilities (if possible), will increase a chances for making a tech breakthrough each round. There was a suggestion a while ago about the cost of facilities being $10, which is also a possibility
China does not have a 3 IPC space, and i think the damage should be for whatever factory you got as far as damage is done by SBR. ( not limited to 6 IPC).
The rule says, facilities may be placed on any original territories with an IPC value of 3 or more. Shanghai and Manchuria are original territories of China under Japanese control.
What is your suggestion for the maximum amount of damage for research facilities?
lastly, HBG has research laboratory tokens and other related tokens.
Good to know!
Is this your idea?
I have picked the meat off bones from many “laboratory house rule” skeletons in this forum, but a few small adjustments are my own.
Before you paid 5 IPC and got to roll every turn till you got a 6 and then the investment is done.
Now you pay 12 IPC and still need to roll a 6, but once you do after a turn the process starts again…you don’t lose the investment.
I meant to get clarification of the rule, not that it is somebody’s idea from before.
Damage could be just like AB or NB. I stand corrected.
Sorry for the misunderstanding IL,
Did I answer your question? is there anything about the proposed rule that you think is good or bad?
Its fine. A one time investment of $12 makes everyone go for it.
Don’t think China should get Tech, they were a 6th rate nation in those days. Heck they still binded women’s feet back then and that’s medieval. China has no pieces anyway except infantry.
@Imperious:
Its fine. A one time investment of $12 makes everyone go for it.
Don’t think China should get Tech, they were a 6th rate nation in those days. Heck they still binded women’s feet back then and that’s medieval. China has no pieces anyway except infantry.
Yes, historically China was under developed, but for game play, allowing China that option would avoid an exception to the rule, and it would make Japan think twice about evacuating the entire coast. As for breakthroughs that could help Chinese infantry, who knows what people will invent for their own charts.
I’m ok with restricting China if it becomes a sticky point.
I think a better and simpler solution would be to make research facilities a major IC upgrade for $12. Tech can only be rolled if the IC is not damaged during the PURCHASE/REPAIR phase. Just place the AA50 tech token under the major IC.
By default this simpler rule would hav the following benifits without writing any new rules:
No turn 1 tech suprises
Facilities can only be built on 3+ Ipc locations (but would have to be original powers territory)
Research facilities aren’t capture able since Major ICs are downgraded upon capture.
Facility can still be damaged.
Facility has built in AA.
ANZAC/china/France would likely never be able to research tech.
I don’t believe any country would ever likely be rolling more than 3 dice a turn. And most would likely roll 1 or 2.
I think a better and simpler solution would be to make research facilities a major IC upgrade for $12. Tech can only be rolled if the IC is not damaged during the PURCHASE/REPAIR phase. Just place the AA50 tech token under the major IC.
By default this simpler rule would hav the following benifits without writing any new rules:
No turn 1 tech suprises
Facilities can only be built on 3+ Ipc locations (but would have to be original powers territory)
Research facilities aren’t capture able since Major ICs are downgraded upon capture.
Facility can still be damaged.
Facility has built in AA.
ANZAC/china/France would likely never be able to research tech.
I don’t believe any country would ever likely be rolling more than 3 dice a turn. And most would likely roll 1 or 2.
What if a player wishes to pay for multiple chances to aquire tech, they would need to purchase a $30 unit they don’t want, and than spend another $12 just to upgrade it into the facility they wanted in the first place, is that what you meant by upgrading a new major into a lab, or do you mean that only original majors can be upgraded?
Yes… My rule interpitation seems complicated due to my need to articulate details. However, upon closer examination, it’s quite simple.
What research is going to help china anyways?
Jet Fighters - Long Range Aircraft… wow… alot of money to upgrade 1 fighter.
War Bonds
Improved Artillery (if/when the road isn’t closed)
You can LOL @
Shipyards
Radar
Increased Factory Production
Improved Mechanized Inf
Heavy Bombers
Super Subs
Airborne Forces (lol unless Japan builds China an Airbase…)
Rockets
What research is going to help china anyways?
Jet Fighters - Long Range Aircraft… wow… alot of money to upgrade 1 fighter.
War Bonds
Improved Artillery (if/when the road isn’t closed)You can LOL @
Shipyards
Radar
Increased Factory Production
Improved Mechanized Inf
Heavy Bombers
Super Subs
Airborne Forces (lol unless Japan builds China an Airbase…)
Rockets
So instead of making an exception to the rule, logic will prevail. Just because China can build up to two research facilities, doesn’t mean they should.
Also, they seldom get to 12IPC ( except turn 1), they should just get dropped off the tech list.
Can you imagine them saving this money and not buying infantry instead?
@Imperious:
Also, they seldom get to 12IPC ( except turn 1), they should just get dropped off the tech list.
Can you imagine them saving this money and not buying infantry instead?
LOL Awesome.
Acually, disallowing China from using the research & development phase whouldn’t be an exception from the rule, seeing as the rule requires a nation to have control of its own capital. The fact that China has no capital makes it an ineligible nation to purchase research facilities.
SOLVED!
Also the fact that they are restricted to building ONLY infantry, and sometimes artillery…
Gargantua,
You have spent some time reviewing “Lab house rules” in the past, am I missing anything in my rule proposal?
The only thing I added, was that each nation started with one facility. (So that countries like Italy/Anzac/India actually got a chance).
Then I also had the caveat, that if you captured an enemy facility, you could either steal a tecnology they had (At the cost of destroying the facility), Destroy the Facility, or -keep- the facility and roll for yourself. 1 facility = 1 roll.
What this does, is give germany an early -techboost-, until the Yankee’s get going, at which time they’re probably facing off a tech-upgraded America.
This balances out the fact that India/UK get facilities, which if EITHER score an upgrade, both countries share.
Also… the research facility cost the same as all the other facilities for simplicity sake (15), not that it’s a huge deal… and they also operated the same (built in AA, up to 6 damage, operable at 2 or less damage).
I could be mistaken… but Purchasing TECH, might actually come BEFORE the repair units phase… in which case, a bombed facility, wouldn’t be able to roll for tech - until AFTER repairs, and a turn where it isn’t damaged again.
@Young:
I think a better and simpler solution would be to make research facilities a major IC upgrade for $12. Tech can only be rolled if the IC is not damaged during the PURCHASE/REPAIR phase. Just place the AA50 tech token under the major IC.
By default this simpler rule would hav the following benifits without writing any new rules:
No turn 1 tech suprises
Facilities can only be built on 3+ Ipc locations (but would have to be original powers territory)
Research facilities aren’t capture able since Major ICs are downgraded upon capture.
Facility can still be damaged.
Facility has built in AA.
ANZAC/china/France would likely never be able to research tech.
I don’t believe any country would ever likely be rolling more than 3 dice a turn. And most would likely roll 1 or 2.What if a player wishes to pay for multiple chances to aquire tech, they would need to purchase a $30 unit they don’t want, and than spend another $12 just to upgrade it into the facility they wanted in the first place, is that what you meant by upgrading a new major into a lab, or do you mean that only original majors can be upgraded?
Yes… My rule interpitation seems complicated due to my need to articulate details. However, upon closer examination, it’s quite simple.
Your interpretation is correct. However all major nations already have major industrial complexes. So they could upgrade their starting ICs. True building new research would be expensive if you didn’t have a major or minor already, but how often would you be willing to buy a research in a territory without a complex already.
I think the currently presented system is overly complicated.
However the group seems to be moving in another direction. So I think I’ll refrain from entertaining my hypothetical system as to not detract from the current system.
Also… the research facility cost the same as all the other facilities for simplicity sake (15), not that it’s a huge deal… and they also operated the same (built in AA, up to 6 damage, operable at 2 or less damage).
I think handing out free research facilities at the beginning of the game may make things very tech heavy, but I understand the need to get some of the smaller nations involved. I suggest a price ladder for multiple facilities…
1st Lab = $5
2nd Lab = $10
3rd Lab = $20
4th Lab = $40
5th Lab = $80
6th Lab = $160This way, 1st Labs are practically free for UK, Russia, Italy, and India, but there is still a small risk for having one. It also makes nations who want more research rolls, to pay accordingly for them. I would still like to see ANZAC, France, and China ineligible, however, I like your idea of an invading nation choosing to steal a tech by destroying the captured facility, or keeping it for themselves, it solves some issues when capturing.
I could be mistaken… but Purchasing TECH, might actually come BEFORE the repair units phase… in which case, a bombed facility, wouldn’t be able to roll for tech - until AFTER repairs, and a turn where it isn’t damaged again.
Don’t we want players to spend for repairs, roll for research, and purchase developed weapons all in the same turn?
