Why does the UK fall every game???

[questioneer]

This is a question posed by Greg Smorey who has been running the AA FTF Tourny at Origins and GenCon forever.  This was his first year trying out Global 40 in a tourny format- it flopped.

Link here:
http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9142

Answer on that site or this one.  Let’s give the old guy some help eh??? :-D

[Alsch91]

Well I don’t know why he thinks UK falls every time, but in my opinion, A3 is still problematic.  So I guess I’d agree with his analysis in that regard.

[djensen]

I saw Greg’s comments and I’m surprised by them.

I wonder a few things. Given that both Spring Gathering and Origins are in Ohio, are the people playing it different? Next, how many games have we played online versus the number of games played at these two conventions. A few anecdotes are not necessarily relevant.

[Cow]

How to save the united kingdom

1. buy 6 infantry 1 fighter or 9 infantry and place in uk.
2. buy bombers with usa. (forces japan to delay pacific victory if germany wants to conquer the united kingdom or else bomber reinforcement cannon fodder!).
3. buy mechanized infantry for novgorod+ukraine then a fighter for russia, move all available units to belarus and that spot right below the marshes, russia 2 move into eastern poland.
4. do not scramble UK round 1 unless germany messes up in setting his attacks

So yeah there you go, not so hard.

Ok there you go! Also it was made unclear to me if he was playing the latest iteration of global ie alpha 3 or OOB. If he was playing OOB then of course uk london and calcutta falls and the axis win.

[djensen]

In the email Greg said Alpha 3.

[Cow]

Well I don’t have problems losing the united kingdom even in live games.

As far as attacks go for united kingdom, you should have 2-3 naval fights only 1) the subs off quebec - kill them dd and scotland fighter 2) kill the lone destroyer and transport always with the cruiser and fighter from gibraltar 3) sink sz 97 pull 2 fighters and bomber off of uk down there and use all available units from that spot above egypt. or 4) skip damaged bship near london unless you are paranoid / know for sure he’ll follow through with sea lion

So even if you lose uk, you at least burn italy out. If germany scrambles a fighter his odds for uk drops should he lose the fight like he should.

You should depend on russian aggression and usa bombers though.

USA bomber bought on USA 1 and placed on eastern usa forces japan to delay war or else the united kingdom gets cannon fodder (5 bombers in uk turns sea lion into like a 20% battle, because of the cannon fodder factor). If Japan delays war then you don’t have to buy anything for the pacific and you can just focus on liberating uk.

Also russia stacks up east poland on russia 2, especially if germany bought all naval on G2 and dump trucked 6 guys to scotland, likely leaving 6 units in germany to pick up and dump truck. Also a bunch of starting infantry should be on western germany or germany. Thus the east poland stack is a tough cookie to crack after germany setup for sea lion.

So you lose uk, but russia makes moocha moola income and japan delayed declaring war resulting in rich uk pacific and anzac that just nabbed all the islands. Also this typically results in germany not using any air pieces to clear naval in the medit sea… so italy be screwed for awhile especially if sz 97 still has a sizable fleet. so yeah there you go. uk pac and anzac can declare on japan to make even more money and usa only loses combat phase as a result unless japan really wants to cut usa income down by taking phil.

So yeah, taking london means putting off japan, means dealing with a stronger russia you have to kick out, and italy is kind of messed up especially if you don't scramble the german fighter (to min max odds on london you would want that fighter)

Plus this is a dice game, germany gets at best 5:1 odds assuming the fighters and bombers are all gone and no usa help arrived in the form of 5 bombers.

You will be surprised at how much harder taking london becomes statistically when 5 bombers get to land.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also you can't stop germany from taking london on G4, it is impossible, you are mainly focused on stopping germany from taking london on g3\. Russia usually gets to push deep if germany has to do G4 london... I got to take rome with russia once, that was a funny game.

[Cow]

Come to think of it, he did not mention what round london falls. Germany 3 is iffy, but germany 4 london always works.

Nothing stops germany from taking london if he wants it bad enough… even if uk full turtles all fighters on london and buys all infantry… germany 4 london always works… but russia always bashes germany in the nuts for it.

[Cow]

You know if russia has a difficult time engaging a germany that did sea lion… perhaps russia is short on men, I believe it is only a couple inf to be honest. That is what a bid is for.
~
In garg’s tournament there is a fair amount of sea lion that happened. I was kind of surprised.

[Noll]

SeaLion is the good answer to the UK going berserk vs Italy.

[Witt]

My Uk opponent has been too cheeky in our current game, so I am definitely going Sealion. My East front looks bare, but he is asking for it. This is after I said I was never doing one again! We are playing AA count as cAsualties too. Will be a G3.

[Cow]

AA does count as casualties.

[soulfein]

usually a g3 london is kinda good-ish for axis, while a g4 london is almost a gg.

the biggest factor why sealion is a bad move for axis is that after a proper usa response (bmbrs), japs cant dow till london s captured, which most of the time (-if not always) means no pac victory for axis. so japs play gets really restricted. might be the only occasion where going heavy into siberia with japs is a more optimal move than going for india.

the general outcome also depends on a number of minor factors:

-can ita grab egy before (or at the same round) usa gets a stack in sz91? with london gone it s almost impossible for uk to send reinforcements to egy + relatively later involvement of ussr means it will take a longer time for ussr to get involved in africa.

-how long can ussr stack romania? romania is the usual optimal base for ussr stack, trading slovakia/yugoslavia plus dispatching some guys to bulg for greece and albania means, after a successful sealion, ger will find itself outproduced by ussr.

-how lucky was ger in london? having a lucky attacks with many land units left means ger can remove ussr from eastern europe. many air left further means ger can probably delay usa fleet london for 1 or 2 more rounds.

-is iraq italian or russian soil? a 9 ipc territory plus enables pressure on cau or egy. no further need to emphasize its importance imho.

with all those things said, I really think sealion is a very “specialized” option for axis, which must be only used with in depth analysis of the board, even when it s possible for ger to take london in g3.

so in return, uk doesnt have to solely turn london into a fortress to deny a selion. depending on overall situation, with careful management, making ger grab london can be a game-winner move for allies on the long run.

[Witt]

I hate Sealion. Failed again. And this one was a gift. Worst dice rolling in a while. Pity as I wanted to see how UK skipping purchases would affect things. (Was looking forward to converting those £s into petrol guzzling Mk111 and MkIVs for Barbarossa too.) Damn the Home Guard.

[Cow]

well you just take the odds you get. 80%+ is a fair crack. worth it.

[PeterPaaPan]

What happens if London falls, are all there territories up for graps ? Can USA pick em up and get IPC ? Or do a axis power need to take em first ? And what if some british troops takes some back will India get the income ? If its on europe map ?

Cya around PPP

[soulfein]

@PeterPaaPan:

What happens if London falls, are all there territories up for graps ? Can USA pick em up and get IPC ? Or do a axis power need to take em first ? And what if some british troops takes some back will India get the income ? If its on europe map ?

Cya around PPP

for allies to conquer territories originally belonging to uk, the territories have to be conquered by axis first.
india can gain income only from preset territories ie pac side of map +west india -north america

[PeterPaaPan]

Ty soulfein! ;)