Scrambling when no naval battle occurs

[Cow]

So this has come up often. Where does it say russia or italy or uk can scramble when no naval battle occurs, but an amphibious assault does on a nearby territory?

the amphibious assault counts as a naval battle or can is it under scramble rules?

also is there an official ruling on this from Larry Harris?

[Cow]

veqryn also needs to know this for the programming of global on triple A. I need to know this for my live games, because this came up last time we played. instead of looking for the rules we kinda of just played on, it wasn’t a big deal for me.

[Noll]

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4280&start=888

[Cow]

ah thank you so much noll. I don’t have an account there.

[seth4god]

From 3.9

Scramble:
Scrambling is a special movement that the defender can make at the end of the Combat Move phase. It must be done after all of the attacker�s combat movements have been completed and all attacks have been declared. The attacker may not change any combat movements or attacks after the defender has scrambled.
A quick reaction team of no more than 3 defending fighters and tactical bombers (strategic bombers can�t scramble) located on each island or coastal territory that has an operative air base can be scrambled to defend against attacks in the sea zones adjacent to those territories. These air units can be scrambled to help friendly units in adjacent sea zones that have come under attack. They can also be scrambled to resist amphibious assaults from adjacent sea zones, whether or not the territory being assaulted is the territory containing the air base. They may defend against the enemy ships conducting the amphibious assault even if friendly ships are not present.

As far as Noll’s question, that’s interesting. The allies can not make typically make joint strikes, scrambled air is rising to defend that seazone, they use their defense combat value, and the active player uses their ship/air attack values. Say UK makes an amphibious assault from the same seazone that US air/ships are located. Scrambling air only has to deal with the Brits. But what happens when you’re using an allied transport?

[Cow]

was answered. prevent russia from doin the drop

[knp7765]

I just want to clear something up. In our games, it is extremely rare for one country to use allied transports to get around because the whole thing is so cumbersome: EG load on land units owner turn, move on transport owner turn, unload on land units owner next turn. Also, there seems to be too much chance of enemy aircraft or subs hitting the transports and killing units from both countries. However, it has happened on occasion, usually closer to the end of a game when one country has a lot of extra transports with plenty of protection and another country has no transports but a ton of land units to ferry around. Usually this happens when the enemy simply doesn’t have enough stuff within range to hit those transports.

Anyway, I want to see if I have this right. For example, say the US sends a fleet with transports up to SZ 109. On UK’s turn, they load some infantry, artillery and tanks onto the US transports. On the US next turn, they move this fleet to SZ 112, which is next to W Germany and a German Airbase with 3 fighters on it. On UK’s next turn, even with NO UK warships present, if the UK says they want to land those troops on Norway, Denmark or W Germany, Germany can scramble those fighters and make UK stop the landings WITHOUT fighting the US warships?
It doesn’t seem right to me. I understand that the US is not actually attacking because it is UK’s turn, but it seems to me like this is stopping an invasion without any battle.
On one hand, it seems to make airbases and scrambling a little overpowered.
On the other hand, if the invasion were allowed, this would be a giant loophole to get around scrambling. One ally would simply build a huge fleet while the other builds all land units and you could always invade without dealing with scramble fighters.
So, do I have this right? In this case, NO invasion would be allowed?

[Panther]

@knp7765:

…
Anyway, I want to see if I have this right. For example, say the US sends a fleet with transports up to SZ 109. On UK’s turn, they load some infantry, artillery and tanks onto the US transports. On the US next turn, they move this fleet to SZ 112, which is next to W Germany and a German Airbase with 3 fighters on it. On UK’s next turn, even with NO UK warships present, if the UK says they want to land those troops on Norway, Denmark or W Germany, Germany can scramble those fighters and make UK stop the landings WITHOUT fighting the US warships?
It doesn’t seem right to me. I understand that the US is not actually attacking because it is UK’s turn, but it seems to me like this is stopping an invasion without any battle.

I think there is a misunderstanding of the rules.
See the rulebook page 30 (Transport)

Amphibious Assaults: A transport can take part in an amphibious assault step of the Conduct Combat phase. That is the only
time a transport can offload into a hostile territory.
During an amphibious assault, a transport must either offload all units that were loaded during the Combat Move phase or
retreat during sea combat. It can also offload any number of units owned by the transport’s power that were already on board
at the start of the turn

So as the US transport can only offload into a hostile territory in the US Conduct Combat phase the UK cargo units can never be unloaded at that moment. They can be unloaded on UK’s turn but only in a friendly territory, as they cannot be part of an Amphibious Assault of US.

[Alsch91]

If UK is on a US transport, they can unload during UK’s combat move.  However, only UK units can participate in the attack.
So if you’re trying to unload into an enemy’s territory, using an ally’s transport, and without any of your own units in the sea zone, a scramble will stop your amphibious assault.  Even if the US has 4000 loaded carriers, UK can unload without some of their own units, so long as there is a scramble that can stop it.

[Panther]

@Alsch91:

If UK is on a US transport, they can unload during UK’s combat move.
…

Are you sure?
A Transport can only offload into a hostile territory in it’s own conduct combat phase (as part of an amphibious assault), according to the rulebook.
So how can a US transport unload in UK’s combat move?

Maybe I am wrong, but where can I find that in the rules or clarifications or latest Alpha?
Were the rules I quoted from the rulebook superseded?
Thank you for helping me out, here.

[wheatbeer]

P@nther,

Page 20 in the Europe rulebook says its possible:
“An attacking land unit can assault a coastal territory from an ally’s transport, but only on the attacking land unit owner’s turn.”

The transport unit description doesn’t seem to contradict this.

[Panther]

@wheatbeer:

Page 20 in the Europe rulebook says its possible:
“An attacking land unit can assault a coastal territory from an ally’s transport, but only on the attacking land unit owner’s turn.”

Clear enough! Thank you!

@wheatbeer:

The transport unit description doesn’t seem to contradict this.

I still am a bit confused because of the Transport unit description
“Amphibious Assaults: A transport can take part in an amphibious assault step of the Conduct Combat phase. That is the only time a transport can offload into a hostile territory.”

So in fact a transport can offload into a hostile territory under two circumstances:
1. own troops in an amphibious assault on it’s own combat move
2. allied troops (cargo) as part of the combat move of the allied nation
  (but here the Transport cannot be part of the amphibious assault because allied nations never attack together)

But no more arguing, I am convinced now.
Thank you again.
:-)