How many ships do purchase as Germany in a typical game?

[JLord]

I know most people like to buy at least a carrier on turn one, or possibly 2 transports.  But how many total ships do you buy in a typical game as Germany in say the first 5-6 turns?

[Guest]

In most games, that G1 AC is the only navy I ever buy as Germany.

In one game recently I did buy a second German AC for the Med in an effort to block US ships moving into the Med.  I lost that game.

The only reason to build ANY navy as Germany is to change the Baltic Navy from being useless to something that needs to be considered, and that will actually inflict some damage to the UK when they try to take it out.

[88 Millimeter]

I do the same, switch- but I play against a skilled player who buys a carrier G1 , then a transport the next two rounds. When the end is closing in, he often will buy a second carrier. The trick is the extra transports provide a lot more ability to counter in force in Karelia, using just purchased infantry from Germany. It’s quite effective if the Allied player isn’t used to seeing it.

The counter to it is to build two British transports on UK1, so that 8 ground units can start hitting the ground immediately on UK2. The US buys a carrier and two transports. On turn 3 the Allied fleet can move into SZ 6 and is unafraid of the mostly defensive German fleet, and a UK3 carrier purchase and simultaneous placement in SZ6 seals the deal. Eventually the US can build up enough force to kill the kreigsmarine.

In all two loads of UK and US troops cleanse Africa, and the Allies are firmly entrenched in Norway shortly thereafter. At the least Germans have to start bleeding  against beige and green pieces, which allows Russia some breathing room.

All the while Russia entrenches itself firmly in West Russia.

I can’t pull the trigger on that much German navy personally, but until I got a handle on what he was doing his purchases caused alot of misery.

[Guest]

I don;t think I could spend that muchon Navy either.

But, if I got a 9 bid, I would use it for a Med TRN and an IPC to Japan.  :-)

[88 Millimeter]

A second Med transport to start the game would be cruel on the Allies–- Africa would be grey quickly, and then the Ukraine would be pounded mercilessly on counters. If Russia wasn’t careful the Caucasus would be vulnerable as well, which would mean that West Russia couldn’t be stacked quite as efficiently.

[Guest]

To start, yes.  But as a G1 buy, FAR less effective…

[ajgundam5]

I usually buy a carrier on G1 for Baltic fleet after seeing how effective it is and I occasionally buy a transport for Med depending on how my opening turns go because the extra Africa IPCs are a big help and if i can distract US there then it is good.

[Jennifer]

I could see a tran, maybe two in the med….to me the carrier in the baltic is cute, but not as good as, say, 2 infantry, 2 armor you could use against Russia.

Playing one now, looks like his entire fleet will be crushed under the heal of the British Empire with maybe a bit of mopping up with the US and he still won’t have the british fleet destroyed.

[NoMercy]

Keep in mind I do have more defense power then you have attacking power Jen :)

one bad roll for you in round 1, doubled up with a good defense roll. and thats a ouch.

[ajgundam5]

@Jennifer:

I could see a tran, maybe two in the med….to me the carrier in the baltic is cute, but not as good as, say, 2 infantry, 2 armor you could use against Russia.

Playing one now, looks like his entire fleet will be crushed under the heal of the British Empire with maybe a bit of mopping up with the US and he still won’t have the british fleet destroyed.

If you don’t build a carrier in Baltic on G1 the British can destroy the Baltic fleet pretty easy on UK1 with just 2 fighters and a bomber which will destroy the transport which can be used against Russia in Karelia which would be a waste to just see destroyed. At least in my opinion :-)

[Raunchy The Pirate]

Our group plays with Total Victory Conditions (12 Cities), in a match play format, so:

I usually go for either 2 task forces with 2 BB, AC, Destroyer, Sub and 4 transports per task force, or;

a task force of 3 BB, 2 AC, 2 Destroyers, Sub and 5 transports.

I try and add a naval piece every turn so I can make the push later in the game.

The very first game we played, I drew Germany and won taking out London and the USA.

I still have won more games/matches than lost, when playing Germany.

[Jennifer]

@NoMercy:

Keep in mind I do have more defense power then you have attacking power Jen :)

one bad roll for you in round 1, doubled up with a good defense roll. and thats a ouch.

@ajgundam5:

@Jennifer:

I could see a tran, maybe two in the med….to me the carrier in the baltic is cute, but not as good as, say, 2 infantry, 2 armor you could use against Russia.

Playing one now, looks like his entire fleet will be crushed under the heal of the British Empire with maybe a bit of mopping up with the US and he still won’t have the british fleet destroyed.

If you don’t build a carrier in Baltic on G1 the British can destroy the Baltic fleet pretty easy on UK1 with just 2 fighters and a bomber which will destroy the transport which can be used against Russia in Karelia which would be a waste to just see destroyed. At least in my opinion :-)

A)  Yes, but if I go around you then what do you have?  In our current game you have 44 IPCs sitting in the water doing nothing for you.  (I sutracted the fighters since they can be used on land still.)

B)  You might get lucky against the Brits, but then you have the Americans and a Russian sub to deal with.  Between the 3 of them, somethings going to burn.  And remember, the Allies only need to knock out the wet forces, not the air forces.

C)  I don’t usually bother with the Baltic fleet.  As long as it stays in the Baltic, I don’t care.  I can use those fighters and bomber elsewhere, like Africa or Gibraltar, etc.  I have funny uses for my Royal Air Force, I always did.  Drove a couple of old players on this board mad in AA 2nd Ed.  Prolly drive even NCSC insane if he saw it in a normal game.  Basically, in non-rated games (ie when competition isnt on the line, I only want to have fun) I pull some of the craziest stunts you’ll ever see!

For instance, I’ve purchased 2 fighters with Russia before.  In AAR I’ve purchased 2 DDs with Russia for the Med.  You wanna see Germany get nervous?  Get two DDs on R1, 3 TRN on R2 and then go after S. Europe or W. Europe.  You’ll loose, but not before Germany has a heart attack!  And let me tell you, Germany will never again let you build a fleet in the Med with Russia!  hehe.

[squirecam]

@Jennifer:

@NoMercy:

Keep in mind I do have more defense power then you have attacking power Jen :)

one bad roll for you in round 1, doubled up with a good defense roll. and thats a ouch.

@ajgundam5:

@Jennifer:

I could see a tran, maybe two in the med….to me the carrier in the baltic is cute, but not as good as, say, 2 infantry, 2 armor you could use against Russia.

Playing one now, looks like his entire fleet will be crushed under the heal of the British Empire with maybe a bit of mopping up with the US and he still won’t have the british fleet destroyed.

If you don’t build a carrier in Baltic on G1 the British can destroy the Baltic fleet pretty easy on UK1 with just 2 fighters and a bomber which will destroy the transport which can be used against Russia in Karelia which would be a waste to just see destroyed. At least in my opinion :-)

A)  Yes, but if I go around you then what do you have?  In our current game you have 44 IPCs sitting in the water doing nothing for you.  (I sutracted the fighters since they can be used on land still.)

B)  You might get lucky against the Brits, but then you have the Americans and a Russian sub to deal with.  Between the 3 of them, somethings going to burn.  And remember, the Allies only need to knock out the wet forces, not the air forces.

C)  I don’t usually bother with the Baltic fleet.  As long as it stays in the Baltic, I don’t care.  I can use those fighters and bomber elsewhere, like Africa or Gibraltar, etc.  I have funny uses for my Royal Air Force, I always did.  Drove a couple of old players on this board mad in AA 2nd Ed.  Prolly drive even NCSC insane if he saw it in a normal game.  Basically, in non-rated games (ie when competition isnt on the line, I only want to have fun) I pull some of the craziest stunts you’ll ever see!

For instance, I’ve purchased 2 fighters with Russia before.  In AAR I’ve purchased 2 DDs with Russia for the Med.  You wanna see Germany get nervous?  Get two DDs on R1, 3 TRN on R2 and then go after S. Europe or W. Europe.  You’ll loose, but not before Germany has a heart attack!  And let me tell you, Germany will never again let you build a fleet in the Med with Russia!  hehe.

Just for kicks, I always wanted to see an AC/Trans buy USSR1. Land 2 fighters on it. Would be interesting to see the result.

[Jennifer]

BTW, the German fleet was utterly destroyed.  I didn’t even need American ships to destroy the German fleet.  Yes, the British boats were destroyed as well, and it’s a shame that I got horrbile dice rolls, but even in a worst case scenario, the German Aircraft Carrier only delays the destruction of the Northern Fleet, it doesn’t save it. (BTW, it also cost the Germans a fighter, another asset they really couldnt afford.)

Europe’s future was delayed 1 round at the cost of 26 IPCs it would not have otherwise lost, almost a full turn’s production. (CV, FIG that were destroyed.)

As for Russia, didn’t think of an AC…though, I was more looking for offensive units.  Something to force Germany to use Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine against to pull some pressure off England.  Gives them a choice to hit Russia or England, meanwhile the team they don’t hit take out the rest of their fleet (if any exist) and establish dominance of the Med for a round or three.  That means America only needs to deploy starting forces in Africa (or England, either way) and clean up the Continent.

[ajgundam5]

If you are willing to commit the money you can buy perhaps some more ships for the Baltic Fleet and maybe even attack the British Fleet if you are ballsy enough and doing well against Russia. Of course if US is doing its job then you probably cant wipe out the fleet anyway

[Jennifer]

If the US is going Pac strat, then yea, you could take out the British fleet.

G1:  BB/TRN to Gibraltar. (Take it with 1 inf, so British planes can’t land there.) , Either attack TRN in E. Canada or move Sub with BB/TRN.  Buy AC, maybe AC + SS or two.

G2:  Join fleets in SZ7.  You now should have: 1 AC, 2 FIG, 1 DD, 1BB, 2 TRN and 2-5 SS (depending if you bought two and/or used one in E. Canada)

That’s a huge fleet and more then enough to stop USA/UK from landing troops in the Atlantic for a LONG time (assuming the US went Pac instead and UK couldn’t take out or block your fleet merger somehow.)

You’ll of course experience a significant set back in Europe for a round or two.  But you’ll own Africa no problem and be able to push on to Russia since the Allies will be unable to land troops for a good number of rounds from that point on.

Still, I don’t recommend it.  There are too many “IFs” in that plan for me to be happy with.  Though, it is a tactic I’d use in a “fun” game.

[Guest]

You forget 1 thing in that anlysis Jen…

Now the UK needs to build more capital ships to defend their TRN’s.  unguarded TRNs and German air force… nice combiunation for Germany :-)

So it is a 2-4 round delay, depending on the strngth and position of the Luftwaffe, and whether or not the US wants to dedicate their fleet to protecting UK TRN’s (meanign both UK and USA are basically stuck landing hte same places, with no real wiggle room to go back to Africa, as an example…)

[Jennifer]

@ncscswitch:

You forget 1 thing in that anlysis Jen…

Now the UK needs to build more capital ships to defend their TRN’s.  unguarded TRNs and German air force… nice combiunation for Germany :-)

So it is a 2-4 round delay, depending on the strngth and position of the Luftwaffe, and whether or not the US wants to dedicate their fleet to protecting UK TRN’s (meanign both UK and USA are basically stuck landing hte same places, with no real wiggle room to go back to Africa, as an example…)

UK doesn’t need to build more ships to defend trans.  They have 1 BB, 1 CV usually, on UK2, what more do they need???  That’s already a decent escort for 3 transports.

What I was getting at is that germany would have to combine their fleets because they absolutely MUST have that BB with their fleet to support it.  Otherwise, you’re going to loose it all and England/USA will just come in a round later.  (Remember, the US has 1 BB and probably a CV too if they built it on R1.  That’s plenty to defend against 4-6 fighters and a bomber.)

[Guest]

The AC buy for teh Baltic is to give Germany time to get INF to the Russian front.

It is designed to biuy you 3 turns, and to force UK to be slower on their attacks (often disuading them from Norway on UK1 to prevent fleet exposure to those SUBs) and to make UK spend money on Capital ships instead of loaded TRNs.

You get 3 free turns of unmolested INF builds going east (without being strafed by annoyance UK landings), and you slow UK down.  Even if it is OEN capital ship… even if it is 1 DST, then Germany’s net cost is actually only 4 IPC (since UK had to spend 12 on fleet because of hte AC), as well as the round that the Royal AF is killign navy instead of land forces…

It is a VERY good long term investement for Germany.  16 IPC’s to make an otherwise worthless fleet into an actual threat/consideration, making UK spend money on ships instead of invasion forces, tying up UK AF, German forces reaching the Russian front without any losses to UK landings along the way (or beign diverted to protect against UK landings…)

[Jennifer]

It didn’t slow anything down in the last game.  Yea, UK got delayed one turn, but the US took Fin/Nor anyway and the entire northern German fleet was scuddled.

Okay, it got some ridiculously good rolls.  But odds are, the British fleet would have had dBB, CV and 3 newly built TRANS on the round after the battle.  That means they’d be down an RAF, but they’d still have plenty of movement power to bolster Russia and Russia in AAR is more then capable of taking the burnt of the German army for a round or two, especially if they are diminished 16 IPCs.

So the Germans are short 26 IPCs (16 for purchases) 10 for a fighter.  It could even be 36 if it lost BOTH fighters on that carrier - a very likely scenario.  UK is down 3 Trans or 24 IPC worth to continue to be of aid to Russia.  So 24 IPC loss to UK vs 36 IPC loss to Germany.

I understand that it’s 59 IPCs in units lost to England (2 Fig, 1 Bmb, 3 Trn) and 72 IPCs lost to Germany (1 CV, 2 FIG, 2 SS, 1 TRN, 1 DD) but realistically speaking, Germany doesn’t need the TRN, SS’s or DD and the CV isn’t needed either,but cost them 16 to produce.  Meanwhile, England doesn’t need the two fighters and bomber to annoy Germany and defend Russia.  They help in both cases, but they arn’t needed to win victory in either case.

I’m just saying.  If you cannot merge your fleet on G2, then you’ve wasted 16 IPCs and potentially cost yourself 33% of your air force, units desperately needed by Germany in the first few rounds of the game, until you have tanks to make up for their destruction.