There is another way to win…

[shadowguidex]

There is a good chance that USA would have built a destroyer and possibly more for the East Coast to deal with German subs already on their coast, as well as the stack of new subs two turns away (by USA2 they are one turn away).  USA is also unlikely to send all their forces to Hawaii when Germany has subs parked off Washington DC, more subs to come, and transports on the horizon as well….remember, Germany is playing like a classic Sealion attack until G2, modified with two Subs off Washington.

[Omega1759]

@shadowguidex:

There is a good chance that USA would have built a destroyer and possibly more for the East Coast to deal with German subs already on their coast, as well as the stack of new subs two turns away (by USA2 they are one turn away).  USA is also unlikely to send all their forces to Hawaii when Germany has subs parked off Washington DC, more subs to come, and transports on the horizon as well….remember, Germany is playing like a classic Sealion attack until G2, modified with two Subs off Washington.

If you send 2 subs after the east cost, will be at the expense of sinking the UK fleet in 106 and 110.

This also reveals your intentions to Russia, who could well attack Japan instead of pulling back from the coast…

At this point, one needs to check what the US bought, the ideal Japan purchase would be 2 subs and 2 transport, or maybe 3 subs and 1 transport.

I agree though Germany should put some pressure on the US with continous naval builds.

Will all this work you think?

[Gargantua]

Well if you can keep some relative economic comparability, and put some pressure on the Russians….  the bubble should pop at some point.

I like it.

What will be really nice to see, is the US spread it’s attention, trying to accomplish too many goals in too many theatres… that’s how you’ll break em more than likely.

[Jennifer]

@Omega1759:

@shadowguidex:

There is a good chance that USA would have built a destroyer and possibly more for the East Coast to deal with German subs already on their coast, as well as the stack of new subs two turns away (by USA2 they are one turn away).  USA is also unlikely to send all their forces to Hawaii when Germany has subs parked off Washington DC, more subs to come, and transports on the horizon as well….remember, Germany is playing like a classic Sealion attack until G2, modified with two Subs off Washington.

If you send 2 subs after the east cost, will be at the expense of sinking the UK fleet in 106 and 110.

This also reveals your intentions to Russia, who could well attack Japan instead of pulling back from the coast…

At this point, one needs to check what the US bought, the ideal Japan purchase would be 2 subs and 2 transport, or maybe 3 subs and 1 transport.

I agree though Germany should put some pressure on the US with continous naval builds.

Will all this work you think?

I’ve said this like three times now, you CANNOT get TWO submarines to SZ 101 on Germany 1!  You CAN get the Submarine from SZ 103 and that is it.  So essentially you are trading the attack on the Cruiser in SZ 91 for an attack on the Cruiser in SZ 101. (And starting a war.)

There is a British Destroyer in SZ 106 which blocks the paths of the submarine in SZ 117

[shadowguidex]

I’ve said this like three times now, you CANNOT get TWO submarines to SZ 101 on Germany 1!  You CAN get the Submarine from SZ 103 and that is it.  So essentially you are trading the attack on the Cruiser in SZ 91 for an attack on the Cruiser in SZ 101. (And starting a war.)

There is a British Destroyer in SZ 106 which blocks the paths of the submarine in SZ 117

You kill the British DD with two subs, and non-combat move your sub to USA.  Yes it’s tru if you only use combat movement you cannot accomplish the task.

[Gargantua]

You can still 1v1 the cruiser…

or DOW to knock them down for $3! lol.

[shadowguidex]

@Gargantua:

You can still 1v1 the cruiser…

or DOW to knock them down for $3! lol.

Yeah SUB vs. CA is always a 50/50 battle, believe it or not.

[Jennifer]

@shadowguidex:

I’ve said this like three times now, you CANNOT get TWO submarines to SZ 101 on Germany 1!  You CAN get the Submarine from SZ 103 and that is it.  So essentially you are trading the attack on the Cruiser in SZ 91 for an attack on the Cruiser in SZ 101. (And starting a war.)

There is a British Destroyer in SZ 106 which blocks the paths of the submarine in SZ 117

You kill the British DD with two subs, and non-combat move your sub to USA.  Yes it’s tru if you only use combat movement you cannot accomplish the task.

Then you don’t do any convoy damage to the United States.  They just don’t declare war on you.  (I am pretty sure if you declare on them, you cannot non-combat move your submarines into their hostile sea zone.)

[kcdzim]

@Cmdr:

@shadowguidex:

I’ve said this like three times now, you CANNOT get TWO submarines to SZ 101 on Germany 1!  You CAN get the Submarine from SZ 103 and that is it.  So essentially you are trading the attack on the Cruiser in SZ 91 for an attack on the Cruiser in SZ 101. (And starting a war.)

There is a British Destroyer in SZ 106 which blocks the paths of the submarine in SZ 117

You kill the British DD with two subs, and non-combat move your sub to USA.  Yes it’s tru if you only use combat movement you cannot accomplish the task.

Then you don’t do any convoy damage to the United States.  They just don’t declare war on you.  (I am pretty sure if you declare on them, you cannot non-combat move your submarines into their hostile sea zone.)

Submarines can noncombat move into or through a seazone, regardless of whether the seazone is hostile or friendly, but will STOP movement as soon as they enter a seazone with an enemy destroyer.

Please refer to page 30 of the Pac1940 rules for specific text:
Treat Hostile Sea Zones as Friendly: A submarine can move through a sea zone that contains enemy units, either in combat or noncombat movement. However, if a submarine enters a sea zone containing an enemy destroyer, it must end its movement there. If it ends its combat move in a hostile sea zone, combat will occur.

[shadowguidex]

OK, so I guess this needs to be spelled out completely so there is no ambiguity.

The sub from z103 attacks the American Cruiser at z101.
The subs from z108 and z118 attack the British Destroyer at z106

Assuming the British Destroyer has been destroyed, the sub from z117 goes to z101.
Yes, the Sub from z117 can enter z101 on non-combat movement even if the CA is still there.

Good grief people, getting caught up in the minutia of all these is aggravating - I don’t posit ideas that cannot occur, they are all based upon reality, trust me.  I tend to avoid posting forum strategies precisely because we get sidetracked with proving rules and movement mechanics which are totally legal, but require imagination.

[Gargantua]

Hold their hands shadow… Thank you :P

[Jennifer]

@shadowguidex:

OK, so I guess this needs to be spelled out completely so there is no ambiguity.

The sub from z103 attacks the American Cruiser at z101.
The subs from z108 and z118 attack the British Destroyer at z106

Assuming the British Destroyer has been destroyed, the sub from z117 goes to z101.
Yes, the Sub from z117 can enter z101 on non-combat movement even if the CA is still there.

Good grief people, getting caught up in the minutia of all these is aggravating - I don’t posit ideas that cannot occur, they are all based upon reality, trust me.  I tend to avoid posting forum strategies precisely because we get sidetracked with proving rules and movement mechanics which are totally legal, but require imagination.

That’s all I was saying.  You have to kill the SZ 106 destroyer to get the submarines to SZ 101.  The only one that can get there without killing the Destroyer is the one from SZ 103.

[shadowguidex]

Yeah we know.  Anyway, the end result is convoy raiding USA for 6…which is the entire point of all this.

[JimmyHat]

If US decides to not declare war on Germ US1, then are they under any restrictions on the Atlantic board?  Is there any reason for US to declare war on Germ in this case because they lose 6ipcs?

[Jennifer]

@JimmyHat:

If US decides to not declare war on Germ US1, then are they under any restrictions on the Atlantic board?  Is there any reason for US to declare war on Germ in this case because they lose 6ipcs?

Not sure.  Since Russia is the only nation that can be at war on only one map, perhaps it is assumed that America is at war with Germany if Japan is at war with it?

[Gargantua]

America can choose NOT to.

And the rules stipulate that Whilst NOT AT WAR the following restrictions apply.

So yes I would say America’s restrictions in the atlantic are lifted.

[shadowguidex]

If Germany declares on USA, then the convoy damage happens and USA is at war with Germany.  They can choose to go to war with Japan and Italy at the start of their combat movement round.  Japan in this strat would already have declared on USA so they would be at war.  Only Italy would be left NOT in a state of war with USA.

Germany can NCM their subs into z101 if they are at war with USA, legal move.

[Omega1759]

@shadowguidex:

If Germany declares on USA, then the convoy damage happens and USA is at war with Germany.  They can choose to go to war with Japan and Italy at the start of their combat movement round.  Japan in this strat would already have declared on USA so they would be at war.  Only Italy would be left NOT in a state of war with USA.

Germany can NCM their subs into z101 if they are at war with USA, legal move.

To me, if Germany attacks the US, I would think the Russian player would move everything down to Amur on its turn to dare the Japanese (knowing that Japan will need to strike elsewhere). Still not convinced about the G1 move against the US…

[shadowguidex]

To me, if Germany attacks the US, I would think the Russian player would move everything down to Amur on its turn to dare the Japanese (knowing that Japan will need to strike elsewhere). Still not convinced about the G1 move against the US…

Well choose your own strat, it’s the beauty of the game.  Go back and Sealion all day if you like.  The goal of this strat is trying to get the Axis to economic equilibrium as quickly as possible.  If you have another one that gets the Axis to parity by round 3 then post it and we can check it out.

The Russians aren’t too much of a problem for my rendition of the strat for Japan, since I don’t pull anything out of Manchuria or Korea, except planes if necessary.

[Omega1759]

@shadowguidex:

To me, if Germany attacks the US, I would think the Russian player would move everything down to Amur on its turn to dare the Japanese (knowing that Japan will need to strike elsewhere). Still not convinced about the G1 move against the US…

Well choose your own strat, it’s the beauty of the game.  Go back and Sealion all day if you like.  The goal of this strat is trying to get the Axis to economic equilibrium as quickly as possible.  If you have another one that gets the Axis to parity by round 3 then post it and we can check it out.

The Russians aren’t too much of a problem for my rendition of the strat for Japan, since I don’t pull anything out of Manchuria or Korea, except planes if necessary.

We both came to validity of a J1, which is not a common strategy at all.

Will be curious to see the results if you play this on the forum.