Southern France for Germany

[Peck]

I took all of France in one turn as Germany once and it was good, turn two could ship all my tanks and mech back to West Germany for SeaLion;however the next game I tried it again and had an epic fail……  The gains you make by taking all of France on one go does not compare to the epic fail you will recieve if you dont win the important ones first, ie FRANCE, normandy.

[Fishmoto37]

@Peck:

I took all of France in one turn as Germany once and it was good, turn two could ship all my tanks and mech back to West Germany for SeaLion;however the next game I tried it again and had an epic fail……  The gains you make by taking all of France on one go does not compare to the epic fail you will recieve if you dont win the important ones first, ie FRANCE, normandy.

Exactly, first things first. Germany must take out the cruiser in 91 and the U.K. fighter in Normandy and then protect the Italian navy on the NCM. I still think that protecting the Italian navy and clearing the Med. of the U.K. navy has priority over sinking U.K. ships in the Atlantic.

[Jennifer]

I disagree, the SZ 91 cruiser may or may not be sunk, the Destroyer/Transport in SZ 109 is a better target, IMHO.  The fighter in Normandy can stay or go, I’d rather have 12 IPC of units extra after taking France than cost England a 10 IPC fighter it can’t use against me.

[Fishmoto37]

@Cmdr:

I disagree, the SZ 91 cruiser may or may not be sunk, the Destroyer/Transport in SZ 109 is a better target, IMHO.  The fighter in Normandy can stay or go, I’d rather have 12 IPC of units extra after taking France than cost England a 10 IPC fighter it can’t use against me.

Yes, the ships in 109 are a possible target but the fighter in Normandy has to go as it can be used against the Italian navy on U.K.1.

[Piet Hein]

How? Landing on Malta counts as a move right?

[knp7765]

It could land on the British carrier.

[Jennifer]

It can, but with 1 Italian Fighter, 2 Germany Aircraft (Presumably fighters since they defend better) it’s still not a great move for England.

[kcdzim]

@Cmdr:

I disagree, the SZ 91 cruiser may or may not be sunk, the Destroyer/Transport in SZ 109 is a better target, IMHO.

Unless you’re also hitting SZ 110 (and even if you are), SZ 109 is a VERY risky proposition.  Best you can hit it with is what, 3 subs, but you’re advocating for one or two subs, right?  Which means 4 fighters can scramble (if the UK chooses not to scramble into 111 or 110), virtually assuring that you’ll lose both subs (remember, destroyer?  no sneak attack, plus aircraft spotting) AND the transport will still be floating (probably the destroyer as well).  91 is a FAR FAR FAR “safer” target.

[knp7765]

Yeah, these new scramble rules make it extremely hard to do away with the Royal Navy.  Used to be, I would almost totally wipe the Royal Navy out on G1.  In this latest game, I wasted about half of them:  BB and DD in SZ 111 plus the Scottish fighter and the British CA & French CA in SZ 112.  I went after the CA in SZ 91 with two subs but had really bad dice and the CA sunk BOTH subs!.  GRRRR!
Then on UK 1, the British promptly went to SZ 112 with a BB & CA from SZ 110, a DD from SZ 109, the CA from SZ 91 plus 2 fighters from London and they DESTROYED the German BB, CA, 2 Fighters + 1 Tac Bomber (more bad dice for Germany) at a loss of 1 DD, 1 fighter and a wounded BB.  Now Germany has NO NAVY and the Luftwaffe is severly depleted.

The new scrambling rules I think more than anything else really help to balance things out in this game.  Everyone really has to think twice about their naval engagements or amphibious assaults now.  When a defender can throw in and extra 2 or 3 four-point defense units, suddenly a defending naval force doesn’t seem quite so attackable.  It really provides the dominance of air power that really came about in this war.

[Piet Hein]

It’s key not to overstretch the UK Navy attack on G1. You need those planes for Russia, and 1 or 2 or 3 ships remaining for UK does not make all the difference - it still has to wait 4 turns for the S to come in and help them make a landing in Europe

[Jennifer]

Honestly, Germany has enough aircraft to kill the cruisers in SZ 113, the Battleship/Destroyer and the Battleship/Cruiser with a submarine left to snipe at the DD in SZ 109.

Of course, with the scramble rules, you will need to bring overkill to both Battleship battles meaning less for France/Normandy.  Hence, one of the reasons I leave the British fighter in Normandy alone. (It cannot scramble anyway.)  Kill a 10 IPC fighter, or sink a 24 IPC battleship?  (That’s the choice in my mind.)

The idea of overkill is to discourage England from tossing out planes to defend their battleships.

[Piet Hein]

Last game as Germany I took all my aircraft (-1 to defend Italy) and all my warships to attack SZ109, 110 ,111, 112, UK scrambled 3 fgts on 110, I had some bad dice, lost a few aircraft and failed to sink the 2 battleships. I had planned to invade Russia on G2 (had built a Major IC in Romania for that purpose) but I had to wait a turn to get the luftwaffe back in order. Won’t make the same mistake again. I agree that it is key to sink a few big Navy ships on G1 but best to limit your losses to subs by not overstretching and then strike again G2 or G3.

[Vandalcreed]

In our current game my attempt at taking sth France with the new alpha setup, resulted in a three turn battle for that territory. As G1 I attacked with 2 mech inf and 1 tank. 2 round in I was destroyed with no casualties to the INF & ART. G2: 2 INF, 2tanks( froma very successful Paris battle in which I lost only 3INF), 5 rounds in 1french INF and ART still standing. G3 took no chances 2tanks, 3INF,1 tac, 1strategic. Result, me finally smiling instead of my opponent. It’s turn five now and germany’s impact in the med has been minimal, one sub from the Alantic has moved in. But Italy has done well with a British blunder of pulling his navy back to the other side of the suez allowing Italy to take and hold egypt and now being able to face with some confidence early American landings in Italian captured morocco.

[Jennifer]

IMHO, bring 1 fighter to SZ 112 from W. Germany or Norway so it can land in S. Italy.  Bring the fighter in Hungary to Yugoslavia and it can land in S. Italy.  With the Italian fighter there already, that makes 3 defending fighters (at 4 or less) for cover air patrol (scramble I suppose you want me to call it, dumb name, I feel, but whatever) and all the rest can pound the snot out of the British navy.

Perhaps the Tactical in W. Poland could go to Yugoslavia and then to S. Italy, freeing up a fighter to attack something other than SZ 112 (or maybe send the Tactical to SZ 112 as well, makes it safer).

I, personally, use absolutely no aircraft attacking France.  Then again, I do not attack Normandy.  Let the British have the fighter, it cannot scramble from Normandy, and it cannot hurt the German fleet anyway, so it’s essentially a non-issue for a few rounds.  Perhaps if it goes to Gibraltar it could become an issue, assuming you do not invade Gibraltar with the Germans on Round 2.  /shrug.  Fimatleven.  (Film at 11:00pm, you know, the nightly newscast.)

In any event, I believe I would still take S. France for Germany on Round 2.  I am quasi-leaning away from this, since one cannot build in the sea next to S. France and have the Italians there to defend with their builds - which is a STRONG endorsement for building a minor IC in Yugoslavia, but even if I do build one in Yugoslavia, I think Germany needs the cash more than Italy.  Lately, I have been giving everything in Europe to Germany and letting Italy fend for itself.

[Fishmoto37]

The fighter in Normandy can be used against the Italian fleet on U.K.1. It needs to go on G1. I do not think that Italy will survive on their own.

[Jennifer]

Eh, with 4 fighters, I doubt England will be doing anything to Germany. (the rest are too far south to be of any use to Germany.)

Figuring: 3 Aircraft Cover Air Patrol from W. Germany + 2 Aircraft on a German carrier + German Carrier, Cruiser, Battleship (dmged), Destroyer.

Most likely, it goes to London and lands during NCM.

[Fishmoto37]

@Cmdr:

Eh, with 4 fighters, I doubt England will be doing anything to Germany. (the rest are too far south to be of any use to Germany.)

Figuring: 3 Aircraft Cover Air Patrol from W. Germany + 2 Aircraft on a German carrier + German Carrier, Cruiser, Battleship (dmged), Destroyer.

Most likely, it goes to London and lands during NCM.

Sorry CJ I do not understand your post. Can you possibly clear this up for me? Were you addressing my post or someone else?

[Jennifer]

Your post about the normandy fighter for England.  I’m not overly worried about it and I do not think that it’s worth the potential loss of 4 ground units to kill.

[Fishmoto37]

@Cmdr:

Your post about the normandy fighter for England.  I’m not overly worried about it and I do not think that it’s worth the potential loss of 4 ground units to kill.

Figured taking Normandy on G1 anyway and killing the fighter is just a bonus. Of course my overall strategy is saving Italy and the axis winning Africa. With Japan doing their part in the Pacific then U.K. is pretty well tamed. Remember not playing for victory cities makes a different game. Heck, I dont even know what the VCs are without looking it up.

[Daedelus]

IMO Killing the Bristish fighter in Normandy will help Italy more than Germany taking southern France.  Southern France is a place Italy can actually help out with and, Germnay can’t afford to be building things in the Med. anyway.  They have both Russia and the U.K. to deal with.