Southern France for Germany

[Razor]

@FieldMarshalGames:

But now with the minor IC I allowed Germany to take Southern France on the Second turn.

I agree this is an excellent move, but why wait ? Now you start with 4 Mech in Western Germany and 2 Tanks in Southern Germany that may reach Southern France through Italy. Togheter with a lot of aircrafts, you may now hit the two French units in Southern France with insane mighty force in Turn 1. Then you place 3 subs there in Turn 2.

[knp7765]

I tend to agree with Piet Hein.  While having an IC on the Med would be nice for giving Germany some extra options, Germany really shouldn’t be spending money on stuff to put in the Med or Africa when they really need to be pouring units into Russia, or maybe a Sealion if the opportunity presents itself.  In our games, once Barbarossa commences, almost all of Germany’s money is funneled into that effort with a little to buy infantry to defend the Western European territories and maybe a sub or two to harass British convoys.

[Fishmoto37]

@knp7765:

I tend to agree with Piet Hein.  While having an IC on the Med would be nice for giving Germany some extra options, Germany really shouldn’t be spending money on stuff to put in the Med or Africa when they really need to be pouring units into Russia, or maybe a Sealion if the opportunity presents itself.  In our games, once Barbarossa commences, almost all of Germany’s money is funneled into that effort with a little to buy infantry to defend the Western European territories and maybe a sub or two to harass British convoys.

I normally leave some offensive units in western Europe to counter attack Normandy landings. Plus infantry for fodder to protect my more expensive units. The part I like most about the German alpha+2 setup is the extra infantry. They are a great asset for Barbarossa.

[Jennifer]

I doubt I would split my forces up that much.  Why take S. France on Round 1?  I’d rather be decisive in SZ 110, SZ 111, SZ 112, Paris and Yugoslavia on Germany 1.

[Fishmoto37]

@Cmdr:

I doubt I would split my forces up that much.  Why take S. France on Round 1?  I’d rather be decisive in SZ 110, SZ 111, SZ 112, Paris and Yugoslavia on Germany 1.

No need to take S. France on G1. It will still be there on G2 and can be taken with units left from the Normandy and paris battles.

[knp7765]

If Germany doesn’t take S. France on G1, wouldn’t Italy take it on I1?  That’s what usually happens in my games.  What else would Italy do with 2 inf, 2 art and 1 arm that they start out with on N. Italy?

[Jennifer]

If you are controlling Italy and Germany, it would really be up to you if you want Italy to take it.

In my opinion, however, I feel it is best to leave it French for a round and let Germany take it with whatever it has left in Paris since it gives them an Industrial right in the Med.  However, there is a strong argument that the IC is not necessary and one can, and should, be built in Yugoslavia for reinforcements to the SouthEast European Front and to put ships in the water directly into the Italian fleet in SZ 95.

[knp7765]

@Cmdr:

If you are controlling Italy and Germany, it would really be up to you if you want Italy to take it.

In my opinion, however, I feel it is best to leave it French for a round and let Germany take it with whatever it has left in Paris since it gives them an Industrial right in the Med.  However, there is a strong argument that the IC is not necessary and one can, and should, be built in Yugoslavia for reinforcements to the SouthEast European Front and to put ships in the water directly into the Italian fleet in SZ 95.

Yeah, in this case, saving S. France for Germany would basically be saving them the 12 IPCs for building an IC in Yugoslavia.  Depending on how the game/war is going, Germany could really need those 12 IPCs.
Except for putting a couple of fighters in S. Italy on G1 to help protect the Italian fleet, I usually leave the Med and Africa to the Italians.  Usually Germany is too busy with England and preparing for Barbarossa.

[Peck]

I took all of France in one turn as Germany once and it was good, turn two could ship all my tanks and mech back to West Germany for SeaLion;however the next game I tried it again and had an epic fail……  The gains you make by taking all of France on one go does not compare to the epic fail you will recieve if you dont win the important ones first, ie FRANCE, normandy.

[Fishmoto37]

@Peck:

I took all of France in one turn as Germany once and it was good, turn two could ship all my tanks and mech back to West Germany for SeaLion;however the next game I tried it again and had an epic fail……  The gains you make by taking all of France on one go does not compare to the epic fail you will recieve if you dont win the important ones first, ie FRANCE, normandy.

Exactly, first things first. Germany must take out the cruiser in 91 and the U.K. fighter in Normandy and then protect the Italian navy on the NCM. I still think that protecting the Italian navy and clearing the Med. of the U.K. navy has priority over sinking U.K. ships in the Atlantic.

[Jennifer]

I disagree, the SZ 91 cruiser may or may not be sunk, the Destroyer/Transport in SZ 109 is a better target, IMHO.  The fighter in Normandy can stay or go, I’d rather have 12 IPC of units extra after taking France than cost England a 10 IPC fighter it can’t use against me.

[Fishmoto37]

@Cmdr:

I disagree, the SZ 91 cruiser may or may not be sunk, the Destroyer/Transport in SZ 109 is a better target, IMHO.  The fighter in Normandy can stay or go, I’d rather have 12 IPC of units extra after taking France than cost England a 10 IPC fighter it can’t use against me.

Yes, the ships in 109 are a possible target but the fighter in Normandy has to go as it can be used against the Italian navy on U.K.1.

[Piet Hein]

How? Landing on Malta counts as a move right?

[knp7765]

It could land on the British carrier.

[Jennifer]

It can, but with 1 Italian Fighter, 2 Germany Aircraft (Presumably fighters since they defend better) it’s still not a great move for England.

[kcdzim]

@Cmdr:

I disagree, the SZ 91 cruiser may or may not be sunk, the Destroyer/Transport in SZ 109 is a better target, IMHO.

Unless you’re also hitting SZ 110 (and even if you are), SZ 109 is a VERY risky proposition.  Best you can hit it with is what, 3 subs, but you’re advocating for one or two subs, right?  Which means 4 fighters can scramble (if the UK chooses not to scramble into 111 or 110), virtually assuring that you’ll lose both subs (remember, destroyer?  no sneak attack, plus aircraft spotting) AND the transport will still be floating (probably the destroyer as well).  91 is a FAR FAR FAR “safer” target.

[knp7765]

Yeah, these new scramble rules make it extremely hard to do away with the Royal Navy.  Used to be, I would almost totally wipe the Royal Navy out on G1.  In this latest game, I wasted about half of them:  BB and DD in SZ 111 plus the Scottish fighter and the British CA & French CA in SZ 112.  I went after the CA in SZ 91 with two subs but had really bad dice and the CA sunk BOTH subs!.  GRRRR!
Then on UK 1, the British promptly went to SZ 112 with a BB & CA from SZ 110, a DD from SZ 109, the CA from SZ 91 plus 2 fighters from London and they DESTROYED the German BB, CA, 2 Fighters + 1 Tac Bomber (more bad dice for Germany) at a loss of 1 DD, 1 fighter and a wounded BB.  Now Germany has NO NAVY and the Luftwaffe is severly depleted.

The new scrambling rules I think more than anything else really help to balance things out in this game.  Everyone really has to think twice about their naval engagements or amphibious assaults now.  When a defender can throw in and extra 2 or 3 four-point defense units, suddenly a defending naval force doesn’t seem quite so attackable.  It really provides the dominance of air power that really came about in this war.

[Piet Hein]

It’s key not to overstretch the UK Navy attack on G1. You need those planes for Russia, and 1 or 2 or 3 ships remaining for UK does not make all the difference - it still has to wait 4 turns for the S to come in and help them make a landing in Europe

[Jennifer]

Honestly, Germany has enough aircraft to kill the cruisers in SZ 113, the Battleship/Destroyer and the Battleship/Cruiser with a submarine left to snipe at the DD in SZ 109.

Of course, with the scramble rules, you will need to bring overkill to both Battleship battles meaning less for France/Normandy.  Hence, one of the reasons I leave the British fighter in Normandy alone. (It cannot scramble anyway.)  Kill a 10 IPC fighter, or sink a 24 IPC battleship?  (That’s the choice in my mind.)

The idea of overkill is to discourage England from tossing out planes to defend their battleships.

[Piet Hein]

Last game as Germany I took all my aircraft (-1 to defend Italy) and all my warships to attack SZ109, 110 ,111, 112, UK scrambled 3 fgts on 110, I had some bad dice, lost a few aircraft and failed to sink the 2 battleships. I had planned to invade Russia on G2 (had built a Major IC in Romania for that purpose) but I had to wait a turn to get the luftwaffe back in order. Won’t make the same mistake again. I agree that it is key to sink a few big Navy ships on G1 but best to limit your losses to subs by not overstretching and then strike again G2 or G3.