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Sportsmanship, am I being unfair?
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I have just ended the second session of a long Global40 game with 3 of my friends. We are 10 hours in over two days and I don’t even know what turn it is, somewhere around round 6 or 7. I and another friend are axis, and the two others are allies. The game has been going much better for the axis than it has ever so far in this version. We are also using the Alpha setup. As we end this session Japan has taken the Western US and held it for a turn (but the US took it back with 15ish tanks) and germany and Japan are about to take Moscow (Russia literally only has Moscow and 13 inf left and is about to fall) after a G2 Barbarosa (which seems like a much better idea to me than sealion).
However, UK is pretty monstrous, Italy was set back due to bad rolls. The US is finally out from under the Japanese occupation and ready to get back in. So all in all, the game is set up with Axis soundly in control of europe and asia (but not africa or india) and the UK/US/ANZAC are very big and powerful and both sides are taking a quick break before going on to finish the game. Axis has 10 or so VC’s atm. Allies have a slight IPC advantage. Axis are spread thin. We decide to stop for the night.
Now me and the other axis player are thrilled since this is the best we ever have done. The Allies players, while still not beaten, are demoralised after nearly losing America and basically sad they haven’t mopped up the Axis like in our previous games. They want the game to be over and to call it a draw. They really don’t want to play anymore. We on the other hand would like to continue as we think we can win.
Well both sides think that they can win. We’re both convinced of it. Its just that they no longer want to play, and we do. They want to “end the game” and call it a draw. Now we don’t want to force the allies to play a game they don’t want to, that would be unfair, so we don’t mind ending it either, but we’d prefer to finish. So we say that they could forfeit if they no longer wanna play but we win, its not a draw.
Basically they refuse to forfeit, they just want it to “end” with a draw. But if we still wanna go, and they wanna quit, isn’t that a loss? Like its surrendering! I know this sounds like a big deal about nothing, but Axis gets shit on in our group, and to call the game a draw when we feel we can win and have been doing better than ever is to basically erase all the Axis progress and write our gameplay off as a fluke at best with no more than a coin flip’s chance at victory. That is a bit frustrating. Am I being unreasonable? Are they? Should I just take the draw? Should they forfeit if they don’t wanna play?
I feel like I was playing a football match, and the score was really close, and the other team quit while we still wanted to play, but they got a draw out of it instead of a loss.
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Give them the draw, but insist the next time that you on the other foot that reciprocity will prevail to you.
Of course the tournament rules don’t allow this. A result must be achieved and in that case they would take a loss unless they continue.
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Basically, if the game needs to have a result, they can only end it by surrendering. It’s not reasonable for them to claim that they can win when they’re unwilling to continue playing. It’s like in chess - you can offer a draw to your opponent, but if he refuses, the choices left are to continue or to resign.
Now in a game among friends, you may not want to follow such a course. But in that case, rather than conceding a formal draw, I would propose to cancel the game and categorize it as unfinished / undecided. The point being that a draw is similar to a peace agreement on equal terms, but an unfinished game is like saying “we could have continued this, and were both confident in our possibilities to do so in a successful manner, but decided not to do so for prevailing reasons”. I have played several A&A games that ended in this manner, and nobody felt bad about it.
You can also consider continuing the game at a later date. If it’s simply a matter of your opponents being tired of playing after a long game, that seems like a reasonable solution to me. After all, at that later date there would be no particular reason why starting a fresh game would be a better idea than continuing the existing one. It requires a bit of administration of course, but that should be quite doable.
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Friends, not friends. Whatever the case may be. If you’re adults you should finish what you start. I’d explain that to them, be clear you feel you could win this game. If they don’t want to play any longer thats their fault. Not your teams. You’ve already invested a lot of hours into playing and want a clear winner. If they don’t like it they can forefit. Simple as that.
Or, on a more extreme level, lock them in and tell them they aren’t leaving until they continue playing or surrender! Possibly while holding a sharp object :evil:
:lol:
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I think accepting their surrender is the only option. No draw unless you feel you can’t win. However, you said it seems like victory is reasonably in your grasp - therefore they probably are trying to end the game because they think you’ll win. Negotiating a draw when there is no stalemate and a winner will be determined in a few rounds doesn’t make any sense.
I’ve played people like this before - fair weather gamers. They are fine if they are winning, especially by a large margin, but don’t want to play once they are losing. Maybe that’s not correctly labeling your friends, but to me, if you can win and they don’t want to play, they are being unfair to you. ESPECIALLY if this is the best you’ve ever done with the Axis.
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i agree. Quitting is surrendering.
But if you want to play them again, suggest to accept the offer for a draw but add that you only do it because they don’t want to go on, and add that you will win if they play on.
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The Allies decided to seek peace talks, Axis win.
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Thanks for the replies guys. They are my friends, good friends, and its a friendly game. I am the person in my group who has bought all the games and is the biggest fan of them. My other friends enjoy it, but not enough to be really pro-active about it, they could take it or leave it as we play a ton of other table top games. Since I spent hundreds of dollars on A&A varients, and 100% of the money in our group, I like to play it as much as I can, and I’m lucky if I get a few times a year. Thankfully this has been the most popular version yet with our group and we’ve gotten in about 7-8 games now!
Basically the leader of the other team said that he’d be more interested in starting a new game rather than continuing this one. He said that he was really busy this time of year, which he is, but made the implication that he’d be able to make time for a new game, but would be too busy to finish this one, even withing a calandar month… :| And this is all while not wanting to count his quit as a loss.
So I feel totally in the right to press the issue to make it a win, but I fear that if I do, and he doesn’t get his way, then I will be jeapordizing any chance of future games of A&A, we all know how hard it is to get a group of ppl together to play, epsecially on a regular basis. I feel like I might have to bite the bullet and take the draw and not finish our best axis game yet in order to get more games in the future. Its sad, but it might be the case. Oh well, games with a sour after-taste are still better than no games at all. :roll:
Thanks again guys. I really just wanted to vent, get a little A&A solidarity with this great community, and make sure I wasn’t being a pompus ass in the mean time.
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Friends that will play the game with you are hard to come by.
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Just take digital photos of the board and print them out. You can make notes right on the pictures and then reset the game anytime. You can offer to change sides the next time or play the game with someone else. If you never go back to it then its no big deal but if you record it this way then you always have this option. I have done this several times as these game are so long that one cannot always leave them setup for long periods.
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Basically the leader of the other team said that he’d be more interested in starting a new game rather than continuing this one. He said that he was really busy this time of year, which he is, but made the implication that he’d be able to make time for a new game, but would be too busy to finish this one, even withing a calandar month… :| And this is all while not wanting to count his quit as a loss.
Ok, that’s utter bull hockey. He wants to start a new game, but his excuse for finishing this one is there isn’t enough time? It will take MORE time to finish a new game. He just doesn’t want to lose.
So I feel totally in the right to press the issue to make it a win, but I fear that if I do, and he doesn’t get his way, then I will be jeapordizing any chance of future games of A&A, we all know how hard it is to get a group of ppl together to play, epsecially on a regular basis. I feel like I might have to bite the bullet and take the draw and not finish our best axis game yet in order to get more games in the future. Its sad, but it might be the case. Oh well, games with a sour after-taste are still better than no games at all. :roll:
I see your conundrum though…if you make a stand concerning it, it’s no longer fun and you risk future games. I mean, it is just for fun, right? But at the same time, if I were playing with other adults, I’d expect them to take a loss like a grown up and not make excuses to start a new game and avoid losing. If he wants to start over, he surrenders because you still want to play.
I guess if you value future gaming days, you might have to cater to this guy…which sucks, but you’ll have more fun in the long run that way. My last piece of advice is to never play poker with this guy.
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Now what I would personally do, is after having a talk about how dumb his reasoning is and just telling him to continue it later…
Eventually you’ll play another game, and eventually you’ll probably lose. It’s inevitable. When he’s about 1 turn from taking one of your capitals or the final VC, depending on your side, say you want a draw and you still think you can win. Then use his same reasons.
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Now what I would personally do, is after having a talk about how dumb his reasoning is and just telling him to continue it later…
Eventually you’ll play another game, and eventually you’ll probably lose. It’s inevitable. When he’s about 1 turn from taking one of your capitals or the final VC, depending on your side, say you want a draw and you still think you can win. Then use his same reasons.
Excellent suggestion.
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Played a couple of games recently, in one game I didn’t do so well and gave up after turn 4. I usually play to the end but give up when I deem the situation hopeless (so we can quickly start a new game).
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@13thguardsriflediv:
Played a couple of games recently, in one game I didn’t do so well and gave up after turn 4. I usually play to the end but give up when I deem the situation hopeless (so we can quickly start a new game).
I have an idea the next time my opponent gives up too soon. I am going to suggest we change sides and see if I can reverse the trend toward defeat. That way we can continue the game. Of course I will do this only if I think that there is still a chance to reverse the trend.
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I would say the sportsmanlike thing to do is play on until you or your opponent concedes. If your opponent wants to end, and you do not, your opponent is free to concede. If your opponent offers a draw, and you refuse to accept, as in chess, your opponent has the choice of playing on or conceding.
That said, some people aren’t good sportsmen/women. You gotta work with what you got. If you think it’s best to smooth things over and do as your buddy says, I’d say you’re the one on the scene, the one with the knowledge to make the appropriate decision.
Go get 'em tiger! :lol:
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