This is my first go at ignoring 110, and I’m sure each time I give it a go I’ll make some changes. There is a long term strategy beyond G1 but that’s beside the point.
Germany lost 5 planes without attacking 110. 3 of those came by joining the battle of 109 with 3 subs - I intended to lose those 3 planes so I would most likely have 3 subs convoying London for up to 8 dollars and that is what happened. Sending 3 subs to 109 forces UK hand to send all 4 fighters to scramble - you don’t even have to worry about 111 scramble as UK can’t afford to not send every single fighter to try to eliminate as many subs as possible. 3 subs should be able to convoy off 8$. The lost 3 planes were worth it for my strategy - and I knew the planes I added to the battle would take out some of the scramblers - they took out two. German subs got 1 hit, 4 ftr and 1 destroyer got 3 hits which all went to planes and German subs submerged.
Lost the other 2 planes attacking SZ 111 - didn’t involve the BB because he has more important things to do G2. Germany purchased destroyer, SB, ftr with their $30 so they replaced 2 of the lost planes (well, SB for a lost Tac).
Germany conquered all of France, Yugo, Bulgaria, Finland and collected $73.
NOW… you are the allies:
As UK, do you do the London Bulge (send 91 Cruiser to 110, buy two destroyers, cruiser and do Taranto and have a nice sized Atlantic fleet), or do you do the Gibralter Bulge (send BB, Cruiser to 92, and have 91 cruiser, AC and posssibly another boat join to start wrecking stuff in the Med. French Cruiser can join on their turn or stay there, or move down the coast to serve as blocker; buy IC for Egypt, trn and tank for South Africa)
There are plenty of other options and variants to each of these but I think these would be the two most common UK responses. I feel like they won’t be buying inf for London after the gift of their 110 boats surviving G1. But I could be wrong.
What say you for the UK response?
Now…
How does USA respond on their turn 1? Are they spending all in Pacific or Atlantic or splitting? Or buying all land units? With Germany’s moves and buy, I assume that wouldn’t warrant the 3 loaded AC in 102 approach but I could be wrong. US goes after Japan and Japan didn’t attack and is just going after China and Russia on J1 so US is still neutral on their turn with minor factories, etc.
I think I know how each might respond but other minds might have different paths I haven’t thought of yet.
so what say you? how does UK and US respond to G1, and J1 minding their own business?
the 3 subs in 109 is also forcing the Uk to buy at least one destroyer on turn one (Gibralter bulge) or two destroyers (London Bulge).
The 3 subs forces the UK to lose fighters, and then spend money on destroyers - or would you let Germany keep convoying?
I didn’t realize I didn’t have my conquering troops in Paris in first photo. Germany took Paris with 4 tanks, 3 mech, 2 art
@dazedwit Yeah, great… I just lost France with 6 inf, 4 mech, 3 art, and 5 tanks!!!
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/41606/l25-bm4-surfer-x-v-aldoraine-l-12/5?_=1739740868719
So I wouldn’t count on that force winning.
Why only a 4 fighter scramble? Did you not place a fighter in Scotland with the Bid? That is pretty common, probably around 80% I would say.
BTW what Bid are you using and where did you place it?
@surfer huh?
*is that an answer to my questions?
@AndrewAAGamer not much need for a bid when just starting out playing. The game is quite balanced before you figure out the metas for the Axis.
@surfer said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:
@dazedwit Yeah, great… I just lost France with 6 inf, 4 mech, 3 art, and 5 tanks!!!
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/41606/l25-bm4-surfer-x-v-aldoraine-l-12/5?_=1739740868719
So I wouldn’t count on that force winning.
MAJOR OUCHIE!!!
That is why I only attack France proper on G1. If the dice screw me I want to know at least I brought everything I could into the battle.
Yes, I’m just playing OOB. The fact that bids weren’t mentioned in my post might have made that apparent. But what do I know.
Again, I’m just setting up the board by myself and messing around with new strats. I sometimes make posts like these to hopefully get a consensus on how whatever country should act next, and not just what I feel like doing. My solo games where strat for a country is the mission, I still get super involved in all countries in the game - and I usually play them all like a maniac which makes it really really fun. I get excited/disappointed regardless of the country on every dice roll.
I’ve been getting some comments like, “you didn’t do this and that’s why your strat is bunk, etc,” so if I can get say 5 people saying to do one thing, and 2 people saying to do another I can go forward with what the 5 people said and so forth.
Cheers
@dazedwit it is part of the journey. Have fun doing it your way and experimenting with unusual tactics. Your enthusiasm for the game is contagious and refreshing.
At some point you will start playing people better than you, get mad that you lose all the time, and then come back here to see what the top players use in their strategies. Then you find even better people and need to evolve to the next level, perhaps.
I still have fond memories of the Denver area meetup where we played OOB, ate pizza, and at some point yolo’d a big battle in the Pacific because someone wanted to get home.
Much more entertaining than the delicately balanced matches in the League, which seem to inevitably come down to a small miscalculation, or a massive 50/50 battle where someone gets lucky and wins.
I love the game whether I win or lose.
Back in the mid 90’s I worked with this guy and we were blood enemies. One day I just happened to mention Axis and Allies (original) and he lit up. We then became best friends and played A&A every weekend for the next year plus. We were the A&A nerds and then other coworkers insisted we teach them how to play and they joined us on weekends.
I think it took me nine months to beat him for the first time. Some of our games lasted over a month since we were just playing Saturdays. Shortly before my first win, I had him. I invaded DC with six heavy bombers, and a trn with two inf. He had 2 inf and one fighter defending. Easy win for me. He rolled his AAA and hit 5 ones - and that’s how he kept me from winning my first game against him.
IIRC, I remember games from the original, where buying AAA actually was a legit strategy - they fired at planes flying overhead both to combat and back - so SU would have all these bare territories with nothing but a single AAA
@dazedwit said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:
This is my first go at ignoring 110, and I’m sure each time I give it a go I’ll make some changes. There is a long term strategy beyond G1 but that’s beside the point.
Germany lost 5 planes without attacking 110. 3 of those came by joining the battle of 109 with 3 subs - I intended to lose those 3 planes so I would most likely have 3 subs convoying London for up to 8 dollars and that is what happened. Sending 3 subs to 109 forces UK hand to send all 4 fighters to scramble - you don’t even have to worry about 111 scramble as UK can’t afford to not send every single fighter to try to eliminate as many subs as possible. 3 subs should be able to convoy off 8$. The lost 3 planes were worth it for my strategy - and I knew the planes I added to the battle would take out some of the scramblers - they took out two. German subs got 1 hit, 4 ftr and 1 destroyer got 3 hits which all went to planes and German subs submerged.
Why does attacking SZ109 with subs force the UK to scramble into the SZ? IF you attack with 3 subs and say 3-4 planes im not suiciding my planes for your subs.
This also frees up the plane in 111 to scramble and do real damage. Your only attacking with airforce you committed at least 4 planes to 109 so you can only commit 5 to 111.
Convoy damage is annoying yes but im not trading planes for subs.
Lost the other 2 planes attacking SZ 111 - didn’t involve the BB because he has more important things to do G2. Germany purchased destroyer, SB, ftr with their $30 so they replaced 2 of the lost planes (well, SB for a lost Tac).
So here i would add the extra fighter so you might not even have won SZ111 or have more losses there. No subs to soak damage so everything goes right to the airforce.
Germany conquered all of France, Yugo, Bulgaria, Finland and collected $73.
NOW… you are the allies:
As UK, do you do the London Bulge (send 91 Cruiser to 110, buy two destroyers, cruiser and do Taranto and have a nice sized Atlantic fleet), or do you do the Gibralter Bulge (send BB, Cruiser to 92, and have 91 cruiser, AC and posssibly another boat join to start wrecking stuff in the Med. French Cruiser can join on their turn or stay there, or move down the coast to serve as blocker; buy IC for Egypt, trn and tank for South Africa)
I would buy airbase for gibraltar fly 3 planes from london there. Combine the fleet in the med off gibraltar with the cruiser from 91 and the fleet from 110. Use only planes to kill the italian destroyer. Now i got Fleet + airbase off gibraltar consisting of 1 destroyer 3 cruisers 1 bb 1 AC 1 fighter 1 tactical and 3 fighters on gibraltar.
Your 3 subs are hanging now, if you stay in 109 to do convoy damage i got 1 destroyer in range with 6 planes. If they move they dont convoy me anymore.
Also the italian navy is in a pickle, if they move they are dead, they have to stay together and stay near their airbase in order to live.
And good luck doing sea lion, that fleet can just as easy move back to 110.
What say you for the UK response?
See above, I would not have suicided my planes in the first place, and consolidate my fleet just inside the med. And yea the rest of the income can be inf on london ofcourse.
Good luck italy trying to get me out of there, or even moving around. Might move my strat bomber to gibraltar as well just for good measure.
Now…
How does USA respond on their turn 1? Are they spending all in Pacific or Atlantic or splitting? Or buying all land units? With Germany’s moves and buy, I assume that wouldn’t warrant the 3 loaded AC in 102 approach but I could be wrong. US goes after Japan and Japan didn’t attack and is just going after China and Russia on J1 so US is still neutral on their turn with minor factories, etc.
USA? Depends does Japan declare war? If not just standard build 1 AC + 1 dd in atlantic ( land planes on it ) and something similar in the pacific and consolidate there.
@shadowhawk said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:
@dazedwit said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:
This is my first go at ignoring 110, and I’m sure each time I give it a go I’ll make some changes. There is a long term strategy beyond G1 but that’s beside the point.
Germany lost 5 planes without attacking 110. 3 of those came by joining the battle of 109 with 3 subs - I intended to lose those 3 planes so I would most likely have 3 subs convoying London for up to 8 dollars and that is what happened. Sending 3 subs to 109 forces UK hand to send all 4 fighters to scramble - you don’t even have to worry about 111 scramble as UK can’t afford to not send every single fighter to try to eliminate as many subs as possible. 3 subs should be able to convoy off 8$. The lost 3 planes were worth it for my strategy - and I knew the planes I added to the battle would take out some of the scramblers - they took out two. German subs got 1 hit, 4 ftr and 1 destroyer got 3 hits which all went to planes and German subs submerged.
Why does attacking SZ109 with subs force the UK to scramble into the SZ? IF you attack with 3 subs and say 3-4 planes im not suiciding my planes for your subs.
This also frees up the plane in 111 to scramble and do real damage. Your only attacking with airforce you committed at least 4 planes to 109 so you can only commit 5 to 111.Convoy damage is annoying yes but im not trading planes for subs.
If you don’t scramble that’s fine. I save 3 planes that way. 111, you can only scramble the scotland fighter. Germany loses one extra plane maybe two. That’s a win for Germany - instead of losing 5 planes to accomplish the same feat, they lose 3 or 4.
@shadowhawk said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:
@dazedwit said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:
This is my first go at ignoring 110, and I’m sure each time I give it a go I’ll make some changes. There is a long term strategy beyond G1 but that’s beside the point.
Germany lost 5 planes without attacking 110. 3 of those came by joining the battle of 109 with 3 subs - I intended to lose those 3 planes so I would most likely have 3 subs convoying London for up to 8 dollars and that is what happened. Sending 3 subs to 109 forces UK hand to send all 4 fighters to scramble - you don’t even have to worry about 111 scramble as UK can’t afford to not send every single fighter to try to eliminate as many subs as possible. 3 subs should be able to convoy off 8$. The lost 3 planes were worth it for my strategy - and I knew the planes I added to the battle would take out some of the scramblers - they took out two. German subs got 1 hit, 4 ftr and 1 destroyer got 3 hits which all went to planes and German subs submerged.
Why does attacking SZ109 with subs force the UK to scramble into the SZ? IF you attack with 3 subs and say 3-4 planes im not suiciding my planes for your subs.
This also frees up the plane in 111 to scramble and do real damage. Your only attacking with airforce you committed at least 4 planes to 109 so you can only commit 5 to 111.Convoy damage is annoying yes but im not trading planes for subs.
Lost the other 2 planes attacking SZ 111 - didn’t involve the BB because he has more important things to do G2. Germany purchased destroyer, SB, ftr with their $30 so they replaced 2 of the lost planes (well, SB for a lost Tac).
So here i would add the extra fighter so you might not even have won SZ111 or have more losses there. No subs to soak damage so everything goes right to the airforce.
Germany conquered all of France, Yugo, Bulgaria, Finland and collected $73.
NOW… you are the allies:
As UK, do you do the London Bulge (send 91 Cruiser to 110, buy two destroyers, cruiser and do Taranto and have a nice sized Atlantic fleet), or do you do the Gibralter Bulge (send BB, Cruiser to 92, and have 91 cruiser, AC and posssibly another boat join to start wrecking stuff in the Med. French Cruiser can join on their turn or stay there, or move down the coast to serve as blocker; buy IC for Egypt, trn and tank for South Africa)
I would buy airbase for gibraltar fly 3 planes from london there. Combine the fleet in the med off gibraltar with the cruiser from 91 and the fleet from 110. Use only planes to kill the italian destroyer. Now i got Fleet + airbase off gibraltar consisting of 1 destroyer 3 cruisers 1 bb 1 AC 1 fighter 1 tactical and 3 fighters on gibraltar.
Your 3 subs are hanging now, if you stay in 109 to do convoy damage i got 1 destroyer in range with 6 planes. If they move they dont convoy me anymore.
Also the italian navy is in a pickle, if they move they are dead, they have to stay together and stay near their airbase in order to live.
And good luck doing sea lion, that fleet can just as easy move back to 110.What say you for the UK response?
See above, I would not have suicided my planes in the first place, and consolidate my fleet just inside the med. And yea the rest of the income can be inf on london ofcourse.
Good luck italy trying to get me out of there, or even moving around. Might move my strat bomber to gibraltar as well just for good measure.
thank you. I was planning on doing the SZ 92 if I got no responses. I wouldn’t have done AB in Gib so thanks for that tip.
Germany’s turn one buy was strictly to counter the SZ 92 fleet. If you guys like I can show you what happens later and why 3 subs in 109 plays a big part in it. If I didn’t send planes into 109, then UK would scramble 4 fighters and wipe them out and my long term plan wouldn’t work.
This is my first time tinkering with ignoring 110 so I appreciate all comments
SZ 92 fleet becomes really annoying to Germany, but they have counter all set up to deal with that annoyance. All the planes in Gib def could wipe out my counter but I have plans for when that happens. Wait, you said nothing but planes taking out the destroyer on Malta right? so two fighters will be in Malta, and not Gib - two less planes is good for the German counter.
SZ 110 fleet = absolute bloodbath with all planes and boats going down G2 (Italy SB would hit their AB I1 so no scramble).
92 saves offensive firepower for G3
@dazedwit
I dont park in SZ 92 but next to it just in the med ( not sure of the SZ number), your 3 subs cant reach there as its 3 spaces away.
Your airforce can only send 3 bombers my way, i would love to see you do that against that fleet.
As my airforce from london is still in 1 piece those will land in gibraltar.
The tactical(carrier ) and figher from malta will destroy the destroyer. Then the whole fleet will move towards gibraltar meeting up with the 110 and SZ92 fleet becomming 1 big stack.
With 3 fighter scramble ( 1 from gibraltar + 2 from london ) and a AC with 1 fighter + 1 tactical )
a BB 3 cruisers and a destroyer you are not sinking that fleet unless you have insane good dice.
Italy cannot really attack unless they want to lose bigtime, germany has 3 bombers in range, eh yea right.
So yea thats why i wont suicide on SZ109 if you send planes there. You can take hits on subs i have to take them on planes. UK does not have that kind of money,
SZ 92 is one space inside the Med. SZ 91 is outside the Med and starts the game with a UK cruiser. I’m pretty sure you want the boats in 92 as that is 3 spaces away from 109.
I already did 109 so that’s going forward this game.
I never even thought that could not be a scramble in 109. Now that I know that actually quite probable, that would change G1 buy to cover that possibility. Still send the 3 planes just in case.
I’m going to go through ignore 110 multiple times. Next time I’ll keep all your planes
Started US1 - they bought 2 AC, 2 DD to split on each coast, 1 mech. Big fleet in Hawaii. Didn’t go get Brazil. Collect $52
I tinkered with Japan opener and excited to see how that works out.
@dazedwit said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:
SZ 92 is one space inside the Med. SZ 91 is outside the Med and starts the game with a UK cruiser. I’m pretty sure you want the boats in 92 as that is 3 spaces away from 109.
I already did 109 so that’s going forward this game.
I never even thought that could not be a scramble in 109. Now that I know that actually quite probable, that would change G1 buy to cover that possibility. Still send the 3 planes just in case.
I’m going to go through ignore 110 multiple times. Next time I’ll keep all your planes
Started US1 - they bought 2 AC, 2 DD to split on each coast, 1 mech. Big fleet in Hawaii. Didn’t go get Brazil. Collect $52
I tinkered with Japan opener and excited to see how that works out.
Well yea not suiciding the UK airforce is a pretty important thing. Else the airbase isnt really usefull.
But saving the fleet there is usefull even without the airbase italy is hard pressed to attack into it and survive. Germany cant touch it either and it can move towards 110 or 109 next round, or stay in the med and sink italian shipping.
Scrambling in 109 has handicapped the UK severly, sure germany losing 3 planes is annoying but the UK losing all its airforce is bad.
@shadowhawk this is the Gibastion correct? I’ve read about it but only things out there only seem to deal with the opening: building the fleet in the Med and planes on Gib. But what comes next? Is it going after the Italian fleet? Is it heading back to 110? Somewhere else?
was able to find a single thread where I got one answer to, “what’s next.” He attacked Italian fleet, moved all planes to Egypt so they can move on to Moscow - I assume all the boats came since he took out the Italian navy completely. That sounds like a sound strat but maybe I’m not thinking of other options?
@dazedwit said in I'm tinkering around with a new German opener - ignoring SZ 110:
@shadowhawk this is the Gibastion correct? I’ve read about it but only things out there only seem to deal with the opening: building the fleet in the Med and planes on Gib. But what comes next? Is it going after the Italian fleet? Is it heading back to 110? Somewhere else?
was able to find a single thread where I got one answer to, “what’s next.” He attacked Italian fleet, moved all planes to Egypt so they can move on to Moscow - I assume all the boats came since he took out the Italian navy completely. That sounds like a sound strat but maybe I’m not thinking of other options?
It depends what the axis do after, basically it allows multiple actions from the allies while restricting movement for the axis.
If italy moves out to attack egypt you can sink that fleet for nearly free.
If germany goes ahead with sea-lion you can easy block it.
If germany pulls out of its sea-lion fake you can move the fleet up and start harassing normandy,
It all depends on what the axis does, the allies cannot have a strategy that is fixed.
If germany does not build boats and italy stays in port, you can stay in port as well with that fleet, sink some subs or just be annoying. It already does its job while being in SZ92. it takes away options for italy and removes 1 NO.
Technically you cannot block sea-lion if germany puts his transports in the north-sea. But you will be sinking all their navy if they do sea-lion and basicaly remove a large part of the land army from the board which is nice for russia.
