A&A 1940 Global: Japanese invasion of Russia and Expeditionary Fleet to Europe

[Classified_22]

What are you guy’s opinion on the following turn sequence for Axis powers

G1: build CV, DD, and SS–Germany takes France and prepares for Sea Lion + Russian invasion.
J1: Build Minor in Korea and Manchuria-- conservative Chinese attacks fleet amasses in SZ 36. They attack Russia in Amur with Manchuria+Korea+ Japan aircraft.

From there, Japan builds a major in Korea, and builds mixed tank/mech armies to continuously roll into the Soviet Union with full Air support always advancing. Factories stop producing troops after end of Turn 4 to focus on Self Defense.

Their Fleet goes around india fully loaded (3 TT lol) through canal that italy will capture and into atlantic to shield against USA attacks. (reaches SZ 91 by turn 7) They can retake UK if USA landed. or shore up med defenses/france.

Germany does Sea lion, but now with all the TT they have extra, they take remaining sea lion forces around to archangel for Turn 5 northern invasion. Land Army will invade to the south for the most part. They block US invasion with DD as long as possible and after Turn 5 their reinforcements go west to france+ med.

Italy’s only job (should be easy because of sea lion) is to capture Cairo+ hold it+ get bonuses+defend med from USA (Japanese help by turn 6-7)

Whole goal of the strat is to win by taking Cairo and three russia VC’s by turn 7-8 and then hold them. London not nessecary to hold, just allows Jap fleet through at canal easier and gives TT for northern flank invasion. Japan comes in the backside with air support and ground forces to crush Russia + sap IPC.

NOTE: Japan is being sacrificed, any IPC USA Puts in the Pacific is lost money= good deception by offering Juicy target. Thoughts?

[shadowhawk]

@Classified_22 said in A&A 1940 Global: Japanese invasion of Russia and Expeditionary Fleet to Europe:

nor in Korea and Manchuria-- conservative Chinese attacks fleet amasses in SZ 36. They attack Russia in Amur with Manchuria+Korea+ Japan aircraft.

From there, Japan builds a major in Korea, and builds mixed tank/mech armies to continuously roll into the Soviet Union with full Air support always advancing. Factories stop producing troops after end of Turn 4 to focus on Self Defense.

Why build a minor first and then a major? It saves some ipcs to just buy a major from the start.
Better use that income to buy some additional fleet or land units to ferry over.

[Classified_22]

@shadowhawk

Japan turn one income is 26. Majors are 30. I need to start producing immediately to reinforce the push into the back of Russia.

[The Captain]

We suggest the following Japanese Strategic Plan:

This Strategy Guide can be used as a guide line even if you play with the OOB rules.
The Main Strategy is the same.

3. Strategy Guide Japan.pdf

Captain

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@The-Captain

Only works with your house rules.

About the original post:

The plan is extremely risky.

Have you playtested it yet? Has it succeeded? I can play a game (I take Allies), out of box, no low luck, and see where that takes us.

Welcome to the forum!

[shadowhawk]

@Classified_22 You can support the push from mainland japan for the 2nd turn, so you miss out on 3 units round 3. Factory can only produce the turn after its build.

But you lose flexibility what if your attack goes really well and you dont need additional reinforcements. Though you do need a lot there is 18 russian infantry and 6 more from mongolia.
If you build 2 factories russia or the UK might put a fighter or 2 there, then it becomes a really hard nut to crack.

[Classified_22]

@shadowhawk
You are correct on the factory use rules, I won’t be able to use their units until turn 3 for minors and turn 4 for major. Thanks for the info :).

The reinforcements are going to be necessary, I am pushing all the way to Moscow to make a three pronged attack.
1: From South/ Stalingrad area from german land thrust.
2: North Archangel area from german amphibious landing
3: Japan Far East Land Drive
Goal is to win in Europe with three Russian VC’s and Cairo/London, Pacific is not going to survive.

As to the landing fighters part, It is very plausible that that could happen, I am going to be using almost the entire japanase air force + ground troops though, sooo don’t think it will be that tough lol.

Thoughts?

[Classified_22]

@SuperbattleshipYamato

I have not play tested it yet. I have done some extensive simulation and planning that is far more in depth than what I have posted. I have also play tested KAF and KBF strats, so I am pretty good at playing through unconventional and risky strategies. I love to abuse Axis victory rules and focus on one theatre which the allies can anticipate but not do much about due to political constraints and deception.

I am not in a position to playtest, but that is a wonderful offer and I do appreciate it. I wanted to see If I am crazy before committing to playtesting.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@Classified_22

It certainly sounds reasonable. Of course, so did Operation Typhoon, the Dyle Plan, Operation Case Blue, and Operation Market Garden. The key is flexibility. If I know how your strategy works, I can think of a way as the Allies to counter it and exploit all weaknesses. Will you be able to adapt then?

[Classified_22]

@SuperbattleshipYamato

Excellent Point, the plan may not be the most flexible, however, it doesn’t seem like there is much the allies can do for the first few turns. Britain will be lost, Russia double teamed, and Japan doesn’t care much about China who will not leave their own borders. After Turn 4 though, depending on the USA’s buildup and focus could disrupt the plan. Additionally, I can see a lack of German forces for the land invasion due to their use in Sealion. It might need to be a G4 Invasion which is often considered too late.

What are some key deficiencies that you find with the plan and I would love to discuss. No plan survives first contact with the enemy after all.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@Classified_22

Thank you for the kind words! I don’t think I can find any more flaws in my head. Again, I’m open to playtesting anytime.

[shadowhawk]

@Classified_22

Few things, how will you ferry your troops from the UK out of there? Everything that survives your invasion will be locked in there without your fleet.
You got 1 loaded carrier + cruisers + DD, thats all nice but what prevents the US from using a few strat bombers as well as planes from a carrier on 102 ( they can move there while neutral ) to just destroy your fleet in 110?

What if the UK consolidates its fleet off gibraltar round 1? With an airbase and the airforce there you cannot attack it with italy. UK is still safe but with that fleet in 110 your sea lion plans are gone.

Russia will be pretty free for 2 rounds as germany just invested 100ipcs in fleet and japan invested 44ipcs in factories. Those 18 ( soon to be 24 ) infantry with 2AA guns will block your way for the comming 4-5 rounds. You cant really attack those guys. Firstly you dont have the forces to attack them, i can pretty much remove your airforce and your slow movers from the attack. You cant send your airforce after it or else it not helping against china and UK-Pacific or Anzac.

But the US is free to do whatever they want in the pacific. Anzac and UK-pac are free to expand and get extra income. China will be free to take more lands ( and you dont want china to have free reign) Anzac with 2 minors pumping naval forces out and just grabbing the pacific. UK-pac taking and helping with the middle east and the US 100% against germany.

[Classified_22]

@shadowhawk

Thank you so much for your detailed counter analysis. Here are my thoughts to each of these:

1: The USA is a good point to bring up, however, based on my timeline, they will be unable to intervene adequately in time. They cannot make combat moves until turn 3 post London capture. On that turn, the ONLY units they can commit are air units. Although this does present a threat, it is a threat with massive risk and may discourage some players. Additionally, my sea lion plans include a minor invasion of Scotland to prevent strat bombers landing and retaking of London. Finally, if I saw them preparing for this, I could invest on turn 3 in an airbase in Holland Belgium to scramble to the defense. Again high risk for the enemy and not many players that I have seen do much with the fleet besides KAF post Sealion.

2: Very good point with the british fleet, I had never actually thought of that. It would require that they anticipate the coming of sealion on turn 1, and that they basically abandon their fleet and scramble few fighters on G1 to enable them to have planes for gibraltar. They would also have to risk aircraft only attack on SZ 96, not mush of a gamble, but they could loose a plane. In addition, G1 I could SS attack SZ 91 to cause them problems, and then on turn 3 I could commit more planes to SZ 110 it is only one carrier, one cruiser, and one DD at that point plus scrambled planes. I may still have my BB and some subs because of no/limited scrambling to protect fleet. I could definitely duke it out with them especially if I built more fleet ships on turn 2. Although it gets very risky to stretch forces like this to force sea lion, it is still mostly doable, and honestly, if it needs to be held off until G4 to be safe, I can do that too. Italy will be wrecking Africa and the middle east and the USA can only watch, not an Ideal situation in the least.

Your Pacific points I agree with less, and they mostly miss the fact That I do not need Japan to survive, in fact the ore resources committed to Japan, the better the strat will be.

3: J1 I am invading Russia and killing 6 inf with 8 inf, 1 mech, 1 art, and 3 fighters+ 2 Tac Bombers. (2 inf manchuria takes care of Buyant with Air support) More planes can be included if necessary. The following turn, even if they consolidate their forces, Buratyia faces with 12 inf and 2 AA the following force: remaining inf (should be 6-7), 1 art, 1 TK, 2 Strat Bombers, 4 Tac Bombers and 6 Fighters. Again I can use my air force all I want because I only need to hold out until turn 5. I DO NOT INTEND TO WIN IN THE PACIFIC.

4: leads me to this point, British will see a huge fleet coming to India and is unlikely to build ships for 2 turns. they will not be able to do significant damage until turn 6 ish against mainland Japan, so no matter. again this game is about draining Jap resources to win in Europe. China taking over is fine because they literally cannot leave China and Britain will be wasting resources helping them and not Russia. I will also land 2 inf and 2 art in Iraq when I get the chance to protect Cairo on the way to Europe.

Just to recap, I do not at all think your ideas are invalid. In fact two of them I had never before considered, however, with the right flexibility as Super Yamato said earlier, it should be able to be tackled. I want to hear your thoughts on this, your insight is very helpful.

Thank You for your time,
Classified_22

[shadowhawk]

@Classified_22

You cant take Ireland + Schotland + London on the same turn with germany. You just dont have the forces to do that.

I can scramble on 110 and 111 if i feel its beneficial. As i dont have to commit to a gibraltar defence ( or i could depending on what you do ) And i dont really need the airbase there just sac a destroyer to block italian fleet from attacking into me.

I dont need to do taranto, The stack near gibraltar is a similiar move. Itanian fleet has 2 transports and has 2 options, stay in port or sink, and i might even sink it in port as well.
I can see what germany is doing and a sea-lion threat allows me to change plans.

True while you dont need Japan to win, it does free up the US to build forces exclusively in the atlantic. By the time your japanese fleets get in the med thats turn 5-6 the US will have a fleet that is 2-3 times the size.
Since UK-Pac is free it expands and then ferries troops to help out russia.

J1 you are not attacking 6 russian infantry. Russia is before Japan. Those 6 inf are not there they have grouped up either at the front or 1 step back. You can invade Russia all you want on turn 1 but you either face 18inf +2AA or nothing.

UK-Pac does not do any damage against Japan, Anzac however doesnt have much alternatives so why not. Takes money islands and uses its forces to start picking the islands away. China can do the Azia part. Anzac can for good measure buy some subs and convoy off japan for good measure.
Uk-Pac can focus on building land and air units, protect the coast so japan doesnt get any land and no naval bases.

You got a nice big fleet that isnt close to friendly shores. Your carriers cannot soak any damage or the planes will crash. You cannot repair any damage as no naval bases.

And really its not that big, 2dd 2 cruisers, 2 BB and 3 carriers. The US fleet is bigger after Round 1. Its just split in 2 oceans. The atlantic fleet will be bigger then that by the time you get there ( if you get there at all )

[shadowhawk]

Checking map,

Japan round 1 your @SZ36 with the whole fleet and 3 transports worth of units.
Japan round 2 your in ZS 38 ( off the coast as you cannot land ).
Still no DOW.
Japan Round 3 your inSZ79, Anzac planes are in India and the US fleet is just waiting to move forward towards gibraltar.
Also Persia and Iraq are allied captured with an army closeby.

You land in iraq ill destroy your land forces with planes from india and ground forces nearby.

You asume you have egypt but will italia actually capture it?

Also Your Japanese fleet will be off the coast of hostile lands for a long time. What prevents UK from flying hits planes to Egypt and then attacking your fleet first with that air and then with the Anzac forces?
After the first 2 hits you start taking real damage, your carriers cannot take hits else the planes will die off.

Your Japan fleet will be in the Med at best round6.
By then London will be free of axis forces if they ever get there.

Russia will be pretty strong as with over 200ipcs spend against the UK ( both buys and existing forces ) germany doesnt have enough to defend for a while.

The US can focus 100% on europe.
UK can focus 100% on europe.
UK-pac can focus 100% on planes for moscow.
Anzac can easy recapture middle east and build a factory to ferry 3 planes a turn towards moscow.

The reason you cannot attack the russian stack with air is because of the range.
Round 1 there is 1 space between russia and japan. So planes can go 2 there and 2 back.
Round 2 there is again 1 space between them ( you moved 1 step forward i moved 1 step back. But the planes didnt get to move 1 step forward. So now its 3 spaces to get there and 2 to fly back to land. So only strat bombers can participate
Also you cannot attack mongolian countries round 1, well you can but its a strickt neutral so you basically turn all neutrals pro allies.
You know that UK transport near qubec? What happens if it lands 1 art and 1 inf in spain and turns the country against germany. And we also take turkey with the UK.

[ampdrive]

@shadowhawk In keeping with the idea of sending the IJN to the europe map ,I have an alternate idea.J1 send IJN with transports to sz 33+34 (carolines and palau islands)This looks like the usual set-up to take Phil +some money islands J2.Instead attack Anzac,you may be blocked and have to settle for Queensland.Better if you can grab Sydney or New Zealand.(all 3 have NB)With NZ NB you can grab brazil and be in the allies underbelly threatening Africa,Gibralter etc
I’d actually be inclined to take Sydney 1st before setting off for S.Atlantic just like I think it would be best to take Calcutta before heading towards Med if that’s what you are determined to do.
Oh and it’s less distance to Moscow if you move through Northern China instead of siberia.Build an AB in Jehol to protect your coastline and extend aircraft range.

[shadowhawk]

@ampdrive said in A&A 1940 Global: Japanese invasion of Russia and Expeditionary Fleet to Europe:

@shadowhawk In keeping with the idea of sending the IJN to the europe map ,I have an alternate idea.J1 send IJN with transports to sz 33+34 (carolines and palau islands)This looks like the usual set-up to take Phil +some money islands J2.Instead attack Anzac,you may be blocked and have to settle for Queensland.Better if you can grab Sydney or New Zealand.(all 3 have NB)With NZ NB you can grab brazil and be in the allies underbelly threatening Africa,Gibralter etc
I’d actually be inclined to take Sydney 1st before setting off for S.Atlantic just like I think it would be best to take Calcutta before heading towards Med if that’s what you are determined to do.
Oh and it’s less distance to Moscow if you move through Northern China instead of siberia.Build an AB in Jehol to protect your coastline and extend aircraft range.

Pretty sollid move to take anzac if you plan to forgo japan.
But what prevents Anzac to destroy your land forces on queensland?. Every unit you land there can be destroyed by a counter attack.
It depends a lot on what the US does, if they are @hawai and can attack your fleet there you might need blockers. Even if they do a suicide run they can do a lot of damage. You dont have any reinforcements for that fleet.

If the US would sucide everything that can get to that area round 2, from the pacific side japan will have just a token force left. Depending on Anzac buys it will be hard to even take sidney.
If the US can use its 1st round buys if might just be able to destroy the fleet ( at the cost of their own ) Or at least make it a pretty close fight, if japan only has 2 damaged BB around its not much of a threat.

Though the idea is quite good, attack first NZ then Brazil and then take S-afrika to start production there and help push the UK out of afrika.
The fleet might be outclassed then but it can move quickly towards suez even, it just has to keep avoiding US forces because if the US can catch it well its dead.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

One of the main winning strategies against high level opponents is to get the combined Axis income to come within 15 production units of the Allies by turn 8. Assume Moscow gets stacked so holds strong and UK has dominated all of Africa with little chance of Egypt falling until the late game.

That means the axis needs to capture most of the other Russian territories, obliterate China, capture the money islands, force UK Pacific to turtle down in India, and gain some bonuses from the Middle East.

Siberia has some of the least influences in this gameplan. If it isn’t being defended, grab it but don’t devote 100 PUs worth of material to conquer those 1 point territories. With that much spend, you likely could have overrun India.

Work backwards from this income goal and devise strategies that give you economic advantage as you will more consistently get the W compared to other plans.

[ampdrive]

@shadowhawk When there is a legitimate Sealion threat I think USA is buying on the atlantic side rd 1+2.I agree that the"Expeditionary Fleet to Europe"half of this thread is different but ultimately unwise.Hell just stay close to sz 6 so you can build and transport land units out of Japan every turn.How about flying most of your air force to the Europe side?
sz 38 or 41 >iraq 4 spaces
suiyaun or yakut >nenetsia(beside archengal) 4 spaces
kwangsi(with AB) > romania or iraq 7spaces
sz 1 >qubec 4 spaces…that one is a crazy kamakazi

[shadowhawk]

@ampdrive
Well with a sea-lion threat the US could also get some bombers and airforces in the atlantic side. If you do sea-lion that would destroy your fleet making russia a giant bear.

If you dont well those units can fly over and have a chat with the japs, strat bombers have insane range. Well all air has way to much range in this game but strats with airbases can cover half the planet.