@Kreuzfeld said in Why is Global better than Revised?:
@SS-GEN It is a very good game. At least 40% of the rules are relating to optional units. Most people play with most optional units, but a lot of people play the vanilla version.
:+1: :+1: :+1:
A&A 1940 Global: Japanese invasion of Russia and Expeditionary Fleet to Europe
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Excellent Point, the plan may not be the most flexible, however, it doesn’t seem like there is much the allies can do for the first few turns. Britain will be lost, Russia double teamed, and Japan doesn’t care much about China who will not leave their own borders. After Turn 4 though, depending on the USA’s buildup and focus could disrupt the plan. Additionally, I can see a lack of German forces for the land invasion due to their use in Sealion. It might need to be a G4 Invasion which is often considered too late.
What are some key deficiencies that you find with the plan and I would love to discuss. No plan survives first contact with the enemy after all.
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Thank you for the kind words! I don’t think I can find any more flaws in my head. Again, I’m open to playtesting anytime.
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Few things, how will you ferry your troops from the UK out of there? Everything that survives your invasion will be locked in there without your fleet.
You got 1 loaded carrier + cruisers + DD, thats all nice but what prevents the US from using a few strat bombers as well as planes from a carrier on 102 ( they can move there while neutral ) to just destroy your fleet in 110?What if the UK consolidates its fleet off gibraltar round 1? With an airbase and the airforce there you cannot attack it with italy. UK is still safe but with that fleet in 110 your sea lion plans are gone.
Russia will be pretty free for 2 rounds as germany just invested 100ipcs in fleet and japan invested 44ipcs in factories. Those 18 ( soon to be 24 ) infantry with 2AA guns will block your way for the comming 4-5 rounds. You cant really attack those guys. Firstly you dont have the forces to attack them, i can pretty much remove your airforce and your slow movers from the attack. You cant send your airforce after it or else it not helping against china and UK-Pacific or Anzac.
But the US is free to do whatever they want in the pacific. Anzac and UK-pac are free to expand and get extra income. China will be free to take more lands ( and you dont want china to have free reign) Anzac with 2 minors pumping naval forces out and just grabbing the pacific. UK-pac taking and helping with the middle east and the US 100% against germany.
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Thank you so much for your detailed counter analysis. Here are my thoughts to each of these:
1: The USA is a good point to bring up, however, based on my timeline, they will be unable to intervene adequately in time. They cannot make combat moves until turn 3 post London capture. On that turn, the ONLY units they can commit are air units. Although this does present a threat, it is a threat with massive risk and may discourage some players. Additionally, my sea lion plans include a minor invasion of Scotland to prevent strat bombers landing and retaking of London. Finally, if I saw them preparing for this, I could invest on turn 3 in an airbase in Holland Belgium to scramble to the defense. Again high risk for the enemy and not many players that I have seen do much with the fleet besides KAF post Sealion.
2: Very good point with the british fleet, I had never actually thought of that. It would require that they anticipate the coming of sealion on turn 1, and that they basically abandon their fleet and scramble few fighters on G1 to enable them to have planes for gibraltar. They would also have to risk aircraft only attack on SZ 96, not mush of a gamble, but they could loose a plane. In addition, G1 I could SS attack SZ 91 to cause them problems, and then on turn 3 I could commit more planes to SZ 110 it is only one carrier, one cruiser, and one DD at that point plus scrambled planes. I may still have my BB and some subs because of no/limited scrambling to protect fleet. I could definitely duke it out with them especially if I built more fleet ships on turn 2. Although it gets very risky to stretch forces like this to force sea lion, it is still mostly doable, and honestly, if it needs to be held off until G4 to be safe, I can do that too. Italy will be wrecking Africa and the middle east and the USA can only watch, not an Ideal situation in the least.
Your Pacific points I agree with less, and they mostly miss the fact That I do not need Japan to survive, in fact the ore resources committed to Japan, the better the strat will be.
3: J1 I am invading Russia and killing 6 inf with 8 inf, 1 mech, 1 art, and 3 fighters+ 2 Tac Bombers. (2 inf manchuria takes care of Buyant with Air support) More planes can be included if necessary. The following turn, even if they consolidate their forces, Buratyia faces with 12 inf and 2 AA the following force: remaining inf (should be 6-7), 1 art, 1 TK, 2 Strat Bombers, 4 Tac Bombers and 6 Fighters. Again I can use my air force all I want because I only need to hold out until turn 5. I DO NOT INTEND TO WIN IN THE PACIFIC.
4: leads me to this point, British will see a huge fleet coming to India and is unlikely to build ships for 2 turns. they will not be able to do significant damage until turn 6 ish against mainland Japan, so no matter. again this game is about draining Jap resources to win in Europe. China taking over is fine because they literally cannot leave China and Britain will be wasting resources helping them and not Russia. I will also land 2 inf and 2 art in Iraq when I get the chance to protect Cairo on the way to Europe.
Just to recap, I do not at all think your ideas are invalid. In fact two of them I had never before considered, however, with the right flexibility as Super Yamato said earlier, it should be able to be tackled. I want to hear your thoughts on this, your insight is very helpful.
Thank You for your time,
Classified_22 -
You cant take Ireland + Schotland + London on the same turn with germany. You just dont have the forces to do that.
I can scramble on 110 and 111 if i feel its beneficial. As i dont have to commit to a gibraltar defence ( or i could depending on what you do ) And i dont really need the airbase there just sac a destroyer to block italian fleet from attacking into me.
I dont need to do taranto, The stack near gibraltar is a similiar move. Itanian fleet has 2 transports and has 2 options, stay in port or sink, and i might even sink it in port as well.
I can see what germany is doing and a sea-lion threat allows me to change plans.True while you dont need Japan to win, it does free up the US to build forces exclusively in the atlantic. By the time your japanese fleets get in the med thats turn 5-6 the US will have a fleet that is 2-3 times the size.
Since UK-Pac is free it expands and then ferries troops to help out russia.J1 you are not attacking 6 russian infantry. Russia is before Japan. Those 6 inf are not there they have grouped up either at the front or 1 step back. You can invade Russia all you want on turn 1 but you either face 18inf +2AA or nothing.
UK-Pac does not do any damage against Japan, Anzac however doesnt have much alternatives so why not. Takes money islands and uses its forces to start picking the islands away. China can do the Azia part. Anzac can for good measure buy some subs and convoy off japan for good measure.
Uk-Pac can focus on building land and air units, protect the coast so japan doesnt get any land and no naval bases.You got a nice big fleet that isnt close to friendly shores. Your carriers cannot soak any damage or the planes will crash. You cannot repair any damage as no naval bases.
And really its not that big, 2dd 2 cruisers, 2 BB and 3 carriers. The US fleet is bigger after Round 1. Its just split in 2 oceans. The atlantic fleet will be bigger then that by the time you get there ( if you get there at all )
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Checking map,
Japan round 1 your @SZ36 with the whole fleet and 3 transports worth of units.
Japan round 2 your in ZS 38 ( off the coast as you cannot land ).
Still no DOW.
Japan Round 3 your inSZ79, Anzac planes are in India and the US fleet is just waiting to move forward towards gibraltar.
Also Persia and Iraq are allied captured with an army closeby.You land in iraq ill destroy your land forces with planes from india and ground forces nearby.
You asume you have egypt but will italia actually capture it?
Also Your Japanese fleet will be off the coast of hostile lands for a long time. What prevents UK from flying hits planes to Egypt and then attacking your fleet first with that air and then with the Anzac forces?
After the first 2 hits you start taking real damage, your carriers cannot take hits else the planes will die off.Your Japan fleet will be in the Med at best round6.
By then London will be free of axis forces if they ever get there.Russia will be pretty strong as with over 200ipcs spend against the UK ( both buys and existing forces ) germany doesnt have enough to defend for a while.
The US can focus 100% on europe.
UK can focus 100% on europe.
UK-pac can focus 100% on planes for moscow.
Anzac can easy recapture middle east and build a factory to ferry 3 planes a turn towards moscow.The reason you cannot attack the russian stack with air is because of the range.
Round 1 there is 1 space between russia and japan. So planes can go 2 there and 2 back.
Round 2 there is again 1 space between them ( you moved 1 step forward i moved 1 step back. But the planes didnt get to move 1 step forward. So now its 3 spaces to get there and 2 to fly back to land. So only strat bombers can participate
Also you cannot attack mongolian countries round 1, well you can but its a strickt neutral so you basically turn all neutrals pro allies.
You know that UK transport near qubec? What happens if it lands 1 art and 1 inf in spain and turns the country against germany. And we also take turkey with the UK. -
@shadowhawk In keeping with the idea of sending the IJN to the europe map ,I have an alternate idea.J1 send IJN with transports to sz 33+34 (carolines and palau islands)This looks like the usual set-up to take Phil +some money islands J2.Instead attack Anzac,you may be blocked and have to settle for Queensland.Better if you can grab Sydney or New Zealand.(all 3 have NB)With NZ NB you can grab brazil and be in the allies underbelly threatening Africa,Gibralter etc
I’d actually be inclined to take Sydney 1st before setting off for S.Atlantic just like I think it would be best to take Calcutta before heading towards Med if that’s what you are determined to do.
Oh and it’s less distance to Moscow if you move through Northern China instead of siberia.Build an AB in Jehol to protect your coastline and extend aircraft range. -
@ampdrive said in A&A 1940 Global: Japanese invasion of Russia and Expeditionary Fleet to Europe:
@shadowhawk In keeping with the idea of sending the IJN to the europe map ,I have an alternate idea.J1 send IJN with transports to sz 33+34 (carolines and palau islands)This looks like the usual set-up to take Phil +some money islands J2.Instead attack Anzac,you may be blocked and have to settle for Queensland.Better if you can grab Sydney or New Zealand.(all 3 have NB)With NZ NB you can grab brazil and be in the allies underbelly threatening Africa,Gibralter etc
I’d actually be inclined to take Sydney 1st before setting off for S.Atlantic just like I think it would be best to take Calcutta before heading towards Med if that’s what you are determined to do.
Oh and it’s less distance to Moscow if you move through Northern China instead of siberia.Build an AB in Jehol to protect your coastline and extend aircraft range.Pretty sollid move to take anzac if you plan to forgo japan.
But what prevents Anzac to destroy your land forces on queensland?. Every unit you land there can be destroyed by a counter attack.
It depends a lot on what the US does, if they are @hawai and can attack your fleet there you might need blockers. Even if they do a suicide run they can do a lot of damage. You dont have any reinforcements for that fleet.If the US would sucide everything that can get to that area round 2, from the pacific side japan will have just a token force left. Depending on Anzac buys it will be hard to even take sidney.
If the US can use its 1st round buys if might just be able to destroy the fleet ( at the cost of their own ) Or at least make it a pretty close fight, if japan only has 2 damaged BB around its not much of a threat.Though the idea is quite good, attack first NZ then Brazil and then take S-afrika to start production there and help push the UK out of afrika.
The fleet might be outclassed then but it can move quickly towards suez even, it just has to keep avoiding US forces because if the US can catch it well its dead. -
One of the main winning strategies against high level opponents is to get the combined Axis income to come within 15 production units of the Allies by turn 8. Assume Moscow gets stacked so holds strong and UK has dominated all of Africa with little chance of Egypt falling until the late game.
That means the axis needs to capture most of the other Russian territories, obliterate China, capture the money islands, force UK Pacific to turtle down in India, and gain some bonuses from the Middle East.
Siberia has some of the least influences in this gameplan. If it isn’t being defended, grab it but don’t devote 100 PUs worth of material to conquer those 1 point territories. With that much spend, you likely could have overrun India.
Work backwards from this income goal and devise strategies that give you economic advantage as you will more consistently get the W compared to other plans.
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@shadowhawk When there is a legitimate Sealion threat I think USA is buying on the atlantic side rd 1+2.I agree that the"Expeditionary Fleet to Europe"half of this thread is different but ultimately unwise.Hell just stay close to sz 6 so you can build and transport land units out of Japan every turn.How about flying most of your air force to the Europe side?
sz 38 or 41 >iraq 4 spaces
suiyaun or yakut >nenetsia(beside archengal) 4 spaces
kwangsi(with AB) > romania or iraq 7spaces
sz 1 >qubec 4 spaces…that one is a crazy kamakazi -
@ampdrive
Well with a sea-lion threat the US could also get some bombers and airforces in the atlantic side. If you do sea-lion that would destroy your fleet making russia a giant bear.If you dont well those units can fly over and have a chat with the japs, strat bombers have insane range. Well all air has way to much range in this game but strats with airbases can cover half the planet.
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@shadowhawk USA bombers have nowhere to land if scotland and eire are unavailable.If Germanaby owns normandy factory by G2,new units can be placed in sz 110 G3.I think USA needs at least 4 loaded carriers + DD in sz 102 by USA turn 2 to kill what could be in sz 110.
Keep in mind , Germany is only committed to sealion when they spend their G2 money on TTs.If it does’nt look viable do something else. -
Why would i not take Ireland? The mech doesnt have anything better to do so consider that a landing spot. So now you have to land troops in 3 different places thats 4 less land units attacking london. Thats a lot of odds less, it also means your not in SZ110 with your fleet.
You got 1 loaded carrier + 2 fighters, 1 cruiser 1 dd in SZ110 unless you invest even more but that means you cant stop russia anymore.
Assuming i dont know what happening i got 1cruiser + 1DD + loaded carrier available for the US as well as 4 strat bombers. Because im spending my income about 50/50 in both zones.
The fleet portion cannot help out so thats 4 strats 1 tactical 1 fighters VS 2 fighters 1 cruiser 1 dd and 1 carrier. Thats about 80% chance of winning. Sure i lose all but 1 strat but you lose all your transports.You dont have your battleship anymore because, if you dont use it in 110 i just scramble and nuke your airforce. IF you do send it i dont scramble and i got a damaged BB sitting there all alone against 4 fighters and a strat bomber.
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@shadowhawk OK,I see this is turning into a sealion discussion which is fine enough.We should get back to what this thread was about initially.
Classified_22
8 days agoWhat are you guy’s opinion on the following turn sequence for Axis powers
G1: build CV, DD, and SS–Germany takes France and prepares for Sea Lion + Russian invasion.
Many of us would read that as Germany has to prepare to BE INVADED by Russia .I’d suggest that Classied_22 does not buy naval G1 and plans to with Japans help take out Russia 1st and maybe sealion later if the opportunity is there.Otherwise go for Cairo for the win. -
I do not have to Sealion I concede, I just do not see a point in building the fleet and not taking out UK threat.
You might be asking why I need the fleet. I do not, but I am using it to flank attack on karelia archangel area to surprise Moscow and take IPC’s. Bulk of russian forces will be at the front and only have one turn reaction time.
Then I can bring the fleet back to the atlantic if needed to retake london again.
Thoughts?
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Seems very risky, but so is the rest of the plan. Consistent with vibes, I guess?
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@Classified_22 I don’t want to discourage you from trying novel strategies.They’re interesting and fun,but will likely be defeated by good players(I’m not including myself in that category)
With your G1 naval buy and depending on how battles went,the allies should be wary of a possible sealion threat.Watch to see what Russia buys and where they position their forces.If they decide to attack Japan,the 6 Mongolians will stay put.I guess your surprize move is using TTs to drop an army into northern Russia from sz 127.I reccommend using the units from Norway and Finland.If you take Leningrad you get the AB,NB,Minor fac+5 ipc bonus but that spot is not hard to get overland and safer to use baltic sea if using TTs.
Taking Archengal negates Russias 5ipc lend lease bonus.Nemetsia is worth 0,but so remote that it’s harder for Russia to contain you and close enough for it to be possible to bring over Japanese air from china.
I just want to say that I’ve made the mistake of splitting up my German army invading Russia.I lost all my slow movers because I underestimated the power of a lot of inf with just a few tanks and planes.
Let us know what you like to buy G2. -
@ampdrive said in A&A 1940 Global: Japanese invasion of Russia and Expeditionary Fleet to Europe:
@shadowhawk OK,I see this is turning into a sealion discussion which is fine enough.We should get back to what this thread was about initially.
Classified_22
8 days agoWhat are you guy’s opinion on the following turn sequence for Axis powers
G1: build CV, DD, and SS–Germany takes France and prepares for Sea Lion + Russian invasion.
Many of us would read that as Germany has to prepare to BE INVADED by Russia .I’d suggest that Classied_22 does not buy naval G1 and plans to with Japans help take out Russia 1st and maybe sealion later if the opportunity is there.Otherwise go for Cairo for the win.It wasnt a sea-lion discussion but i pointed out that germany cant just take london and expect not to have issues with it. The idea of ill just take london and next turn ill use those units and fleet and go attack russia just doesnt work. You have to take account for what the allies can do.
I just pointed out that his fleet isnt safe in 110 without extra investments which will take away pressure from moscow.I think i would tweak the Japan into europe a bit. Make a full move against india and take it. That forces the US to react on the pacific side ( you take money islands for good measure ) and then you can move those forces into the middle east the next turn. The naval base would allow you to be next to egypt in 1 move.
It might take more then 3 turns to reach europe but since you force the US to also be present in the pacific more ( else they lose there ) your help is much stronger in europe.The axis cannot win without a credible threat on both sides, if the US can focus on just 1 side of the board their buying power alone will easy overrun 1 of the axis.
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@shadowhawk I can’t argue with that.Take out india 1st and then go toward Egypt and middle east to obtain victory on the Europe side.
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