• For the record, the censorship is only in Germany from a legal point of view. I guess WOTC want not put the swastika just to ensure they can sell the game in Germany

    You know, it’s a matter of extremes. In Germany they take one extreme and here in Spain we have the oppositte (we still have Franco’s simbols in some public places and there is still a horse statue of Franco, in Melilla if I remember right). If I could choose, I’d prefer german extreme in this case, but in fact i’d choose a balanced approach (fascist simbols forbidden in public places but still usable in private uses like the matter we are talking. Exaltation of fascism must be forbidden, of course

    More data about fascism in Spain: last summer (I mean July, 2009), I was on holidays in Malaga, Spain, and suddenly I saw two cars filled with Falange’s guys (Falange was the fascist party legal in our dictatorship). They were celebrating the start of Spanish Civil War  :x , but the worst is that they had a official policial escort to protect them  :-P It was scary, but luckily the people didn’t supported them. At least, fascists are a very marginal group nowadays in Spain, but still is annoying that police protected them: such class of manifestations should be forbidden because go against democratic values  :|
    So it’s not a minor issue in fact

    Wouldn’t silencing fascists also be going against democratic values?

    They should not start after Dunkirk. I mean, what’s the point of adding France if they’re just going to make it fall first turn without a chance? Should we not start at the beginning?


  • Yeah A&A 39. That’s what I want to see


  • Crikey, I remember Der Panzinator… whatever happened to that guy?


  • starting in 39 adds too many variables, who is neutral? how do they join the war, certan conditions have to be fufilled? so the axis player simply skirts along these conditions…because they are “rules” that both players know

    1939 is open to explotation on the part of the axis because of the strict condtions set for the allies to join the war.

    Also the big question of US and USSR who didnt even join the war untill 41’
    1940 is about the earliest it can go without a 200 page rulebook


  • Larry made his decisions for a reason.


  • yeah, but was it a good reason?

  • Customizer

    I personally don’t have a problem with the Swastika, but I understand why some people do.  In fact I use it on my own maps as you can see from the link below, but this is not a commercial design.

    Using aircraft markings rather than national flags gets round the problem by using the German cross, and I also prefer the simple Star for the Soviets rather than the idealogical (and inaccurate) hammer and sickle design always used in A&A.

    However using Allied roundels for Axis Italy is just wrong, wrong, wrong.


  • Roundels have no meaning whatsoever except to identify them to other aviators who may shoot them down. IN the game they ONLY represent icons so that people can identity something from that nations control from another. They could be chickens or pieces of pizza as long as in the GAME YOU CAN SAY ‘Hey this is German and that is Italian’

    The armies of either nation would be using many different icons including the twisted cross, or a dozen other symbols depending on the service and unit.

    To fuss about what is Historically ‘correct’ makes no sence whatsoever because this is a game. Of course your not going to use a hammer and sickle for the American icon, but any decent star pattern will do the job.


  • I agree that any marker will do the job, so why don’t we use what is historically accurate? I think you could use chickens for France. :-D


  • Yea, France has been kicked around in nearly every major war. Many of those wars were on french soil, so I can see why they flinch at the notion of war. I’m just glad the war they helped win was our revolution, better late then never. Vive La France


  • Not at all sure the last thing was a good idea….

    So Napoleon never won a battle, then?

    The Great War in the west was a German victory, then?  France took more casualties than the British Empire and US combined.

    Never heard of the Hundred Years War, then?

    Take a trip to Verdun.


  • They used to know how to fight, but that was a long time ago.


  • But the other dude said french never won a mayor war and that’s not true. They lost in 1940, but I must add to Nappy, Verdun and the other examples another data: Poitiers, 732, where they stopped the muslims. We could be talking arab now if they had lost that one. And the french soldier in WWII fought as bravely as any other, just they had horrible leaders


  • actually the most commonly spoken language in france today is arabic, and not french. So you can take that “victory” away. I like france I really do. but they arent known for winning conflicts. just making excellent cuisine


  • Yeah like french fries. :lol:


  • @Brain:

    yeah, but was it a good reason?

    As it is several of the involved nations are going to be sitting on the sidelines. What did each major power do in 1939 that could be represented on board?
    Germany: Invaded Poland (I must admit, this would be cool in game) [Moving troops from Germany to West Poland]
    UK: Built up their forces in preparation for war. Didn’t actually participate in any real fights. [Spending ICs on troops]
    France: Marched troops in Germany but chickened out before a fight actually happened. Also built up. [Spending ICs on troops]
    US: The same things its doing in 1940, building its navy a bit and hoping Europe can deal with its own problems. [Spending a few ICs on ships]
    Japan: The same things its doing in 1940, fighting China. [Fighting in China, moving troops from Japan to China]
    China: The same things its doing in 1940, trying to not be conquered by the Japanese. [Fighting in China]
    USSR: The winter war. [Attacking Finland through Karelia, failing] and attacking an already-defeated Poland [Attacking a pitiful force in East Poland]
    ANZAC: Damn near nothing
    Italy: Preparing to help Germany invade France [Spending ICs on troops]

    So all a '39 version would mean is that almost every player has another turn of doing absolutely nothing while the German player attacks Poland. In addition to the added complexity of who enters the war when, a '39 version would have little to offer to make up for the extra boredom of every player except one doing so little. And what if the German player doesn’t attack Poland? How would the rules handle this? It would definitely add a metric ton of rules complexity without much benefit. So, unless you have a fetish for turns where all the player does is spend ICs, I don’t see why '39 would be so awesome. Go play Hearts of Iron if you really want an alternate diplomatic experience, that gane’s much better suited for that sort of thing. A&A is about the war itself.


  • I guess 1939 would be lame…


  • 1939 would give Germany more options but it might upset the balance of the game.


  • A few things to the last version of the map:

    Low Countries should be Neutral/allied Leaning as Germany attacked them and France during the same time.

    Crete is still Greek owned in 1940 (not UK)

    Aden should be UK Posession

    Southwest Africa - wrong better call it Cameroon

    IraQ - not UK posession in 1940 - they were independent and fought a war against the Brits AFTER the fall of France

    Falklands are located wrong (its Fireland IIRC)

    Argentine Axis leaning - OK maybe, but giving them Chile and Paraguay too ?


  • @idk_iam_swiss:

    actually the most commonly spoken language in france today is arabic, and not french.

    Come on, you cannot say that serioulsy!  :lol: And well, at least here in Spain we the people don’t have a idea of speak arab. Maybe Covadonga did the job?  :-D

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