Basic Ally Strategies

[KarlParsons]

Hi,

I am a semi-noob at A&A, I bought A&A:E in the early 2000s and have now just purchased A&A:1942.  I’ve played about 5 games and each game the axis has won, the strategy being Germany invades West Russia, Japan attacks East Russia, and as long as Germany has some naval units taking out transports trying to come into France or Italy as well as guarding the east coast with just enough defending units, the allies can’t get on land.  Then once Russia is gone, with the IPCs gained it’s only a matter of time before it’s all over.

My question is, as the allies I don’t see how to win with enough time before Germany and Japan take out Russia completely and also being able to successfully doing a land invasion in time, in either eastern europe or the island of Japan.  I guess I’m just missing something, are there any basic ideas/tips you can give me to help and avoid this same scenario over and over again?

[jigsaw]

Take my advice with the caveat that I’m also a bit of a noob - I’ve played the old Milton Bradley edition of this game a number of times, very briefly played a few of the intervening editions and I’ve just bought Spring 1942.

The Western Allies (by which I mean USA and UK) should usually be able to establish naval superiority over Germany if they are allocating most of their resources to Europe (which, I think most will agree, is probably wiser to focus on initially than Japan). So you should be able to keep your transports alive after Germany is able to get some of them by lashing out initially. Also, you don’t need to aim for Western/Southern Europe right away. You can land troops in Norway and Karelia, then march to the Eastern Front to soak up some of the damage from Germany, and enable Russia to defend its back door.
[edit: Also, don’t forget Africa/ the Med]

There’s a school of thought that you should build factories in Asia to slow Japan down, but this is riskier. Japan is pretty much inevitably better than the Western Allies at getting ground forces into Asia, and you’ll probably need Russia’s help regardless to keep them out of India/Sinkiang.

[HolKann]

Welcome both!

@KarlParsons:

as long as Germany has some naval units taking out transports trying to come into France or Italy as well as guarding the east coast with just enough defending units, the allies can’t get on land.

This seems odd… You should be able to clear the atlantic of German subs during the game. Then invade Europe via Norway/Leningrad/Baltic (often done by the UK). Invade France if it is possible, but don’t make it your focus. Make sure you get Africa and clear the Mediterranean (usually done by USA), Egy is a crucial territory in this game.

This is a KGF, or Kill Germany First. The other idea is KJF, Kill Japan First, which involves aggressive moves of the Indian and Australian UK fleet in turn 1, an IC in India and Sinkiang, etc. Pro’s don’t use this, but it is really fun to play :)

For the Axis, it usually comes down to kicking the crap out of USSR. Just keep cool, Russia’s harder than it looks, especially if UK can support them via the baltic/Leningrad/Nwy.

So in short: 1. clear the atlantic of enemy vessels. 2. conquer Egy and Leningrad, Africa and the Baltic sea are points worthy of your attention. 3. Hold out with Russia as long as possible (buy lots of inf).

[Veqryn]

Try these first turn buys as the Allies:

Russia: 3inf, 3 tanks
(Attack Western Russia, and optionally also Ukraine.  Be more aggressive, you can usually push Germany back pretty far, your income should never be lower than 26.)

UK: 1 Carrier, 2 Destroyers, OR 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 art, OR 1 Carrier, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport (how many German planes are within reach determines which one you choose to go with)
(Either Setup for Operation Torch with USA, landing in Algeria, or alternatively, take Norway first turn, then help Russia through Karelia.  Build your navy in the same sz as where you Battleship ends up.  Make sure to Position your 2 fighters on the Carrier, and make sure there will be 2 fighters with it the whole game.  Build 1-2 more Cruiser/Destroyers the second turn just to make sure the Germans don’t attack you, however if you will be combining fleets with the USA there is no need to buy any more navy.)

USA: (build in Atlantic)
if combining fleets with UK: 1 Carrier, 1 Destroyer, 2 Transports, 2 Infantry
if not combining, or wish to feel safer: 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Destroyer, 1 Transport
(Either Setup for landing in Algeria, or Setup for landing somewhere in Europe.  I prefer Algeria in Revised, not sure yet on this version since you have to wait the first turn with america before landing anywhere.  If you will be landing in Algeria and wish to land in Italy later in the game, you will need split up your navy to keep the transport chain going, and therefore you will be bringing your submarine and battleship from the pacific over to the atlantic, they will both make it to sz12 on the third turn, which means on the second turn you should buy: 1 Carrier, 2 Destroyers, 1 Transport, 1 Artillery.  You will need a 4th Fighter for that Carrier, so on the 3rd turn buy: 1 fighter, 2 Transports, 3 infantry, 1 tank)

Both of the American fleets, and also the UK fleet, assumed to each be separate from each other, would survive an attack by 2 subs, 4 fighters, 1 bomber.
However, if the Germans position 6 fighters in France, 1 Bomber in Germany, and still have their 3 subs in range, then each of these fleets will die, taking out on average 5-6 German units with them.  However, it is very obvious when Germany consolidates their airforce to be within range of your navy, and therefore you can take preventative measures by either moving out of range, or combining fleets, or building more fleet.  Any time Germany commits their airforce to be within range of Allied boats, that means it is not within range of Russian territories, which is good for you anyway.  Germany can not afford to replace her airforce, while you can easily replace any single one of the above fleets.

try that out for size

• veq

[gnasape]

Veqryn,

I would suggest in AA 1942, R1 move to attack Norway instead of Ukraine.

One reason being that with the Med battleship is now a cruiser, so Germany has more incentive to take out the battleship, and transport in Sz 2.

1 sub, 1 ftr (Norway), 1 bmb (Germany) vs. 1 bb, 1 Russian Sub but if the ftr, bmb hit only the bb can be taken as casualty, the German sub is there just to soak up a bb hit.

The cruiser in WMD can be taken out by a bunch of ftrs, and the dd in Med can be taken out when Germany attacks Egypt.

Just a suggestion.  We need to think outside of revised.

[Veqryn]

i considered this, and regardless of going norway or ukraine, russia should still buy 3 inf 3 tanks.

if russia attacks norway with 3inf, 1tank, 1 fighter, against german’s 3inf, 1fighter, russia has a 59% chance of winning BUT because there are such a small number of units involved there is a VERY HIGH Variability / Deviation, which means there is a very high chance that results will change wildly.  Since he will take the fighter as a casualty last, that means you are kind of screwed.

if russia bring the moscow fighter to the btl, they now have a 87% chance of winning, BUT that moscow fighter must land in Karelia this turn, which means it will die to a German attack the very next turn.

if you do not attack ukraine, but you do attack karelia, it means there is very good chance that you will lose either the Caucasus or if you left high value units in west russia then you might lose that.

it is definitely something to consider though.  I am currently rethinking what to do with the UK and USA fleets since you can no longer hit algeria first turn.

[gnasape]

Veqryn,

I agree with you regarding purchases, but it could always be changed to suit different styles but I am comfortable with 3 inf, 3 arm.

As for Norway, you can look at % but the impact of UK losing all it’s Navy in Atlantic except for 1 trn is disastrous!  UK can’t afford to rebuild the bb one UK1, it would need 1 AC, 2 dd just to survive and if Germany is smart it would move it’s subs out of Sz 5 for a G2 attack on the Allied Fleet with it’s 2 subs and any air units that can reach (it’s the threat of it more than the actual attack).

There is no need for the other ftr, it can be used for a combined W Rus attack with everything including Cau units.  Yes you abandon Cau and put 1 inf from your build there and the aa gun from Cau moves to W Rus.  Cau can easily be taken back on R2.

This is a strange move if you consider Russia/UK/USA individually but taken together I think it’s a very strong response to the AA 1942 changes.  Why leave small forces for Germany to attack?  Consolidate.

[Veqryn]

good thoughts gnasape
you can make slightly suicidal attacks on all three of norway, western russia, and ukraine
or you can just attack norway and western russia with slightly less forces, while beefing up to defend the caucasus
or you can attack norway and do a full on attack on western russia, abandoning caucasus except for an AA gun to deny blitz

i do think it is hard on UK to lose the BB and Transport, but i would almost rather the Germans do that, risking losing their fighter in the process, than commit to such a low probability attack on norway.  However, i have included your possibilities in my new threat on Allied strategies.

[gnasape]

It’s Norway not Karelia.  Karelia is Russian territory.

[KarlParsons]

We started a new game again last night.  This time as allies I was very conservative as Russia and in the first turn I only attacked West Russia.  After the 2nd turn now there is a standstill wall in that area with Germany and Russia.  As UK and USA I bought factories in India and China, and that seems to be holding off Japan.  So far the game looks like it might be going the allies way but admittedly a lot of success was due to the rolls.  I guess you have to remember a lot of the game is luck, and the axis player has just been having the worst rolls ever.  As Russia buying tanks and inf I still can’t push safely into Germany though.  I am still just holding the line.

[gnasape]

Hey KarlParsons,

That’s great.  Russia is supposed to hold the Eastern front while UK/US sends troops to the Western front.

Please readup on deadzones and deadzone management, that will improve your game.

http://donsessays.freeservers.com/deadzone.htm

The concept is important not the detail as this was written for AA Classic.

Normally any land Territory around W. Russia is a deadzone (Kar, Ukr, Belo).  If Germany rushes in, Russia can counter attack.  If Russia rushes in Germany can crush Russia.

It is great read to improve your game (all inf buy doesn’t hold but the deadzone papers are great read).  Once you understand what deadzones are and how to manage it, you will understand why it’s hard for Russians to break through and why it’s hard for Germany to break through.  It comes down to who has the manpower.

Theoretically Germany can build 16 units vs. 12 for Russia.  If Russia is bleeding units faster than Germany, Russia is in trouble.  Now unless UK/US are dropping units off in Europe to offset these numbers, again Russia is in trouble.  Now add in Japan pushing through and you will understand.

IC’s in Asia works for a few turns but it’s Japanese factory that’s not producing Japanese units yet.  US IC in Asia can produce 2 units, UK IC in India produces 3 units vs. 8 for Japan.  Just looking at the numbers, it’s hard to protect but with sub rule and trn changes it might work .

If you get a chance, if you could write down your purchases and attacks per round that would be very helpful in evaluating strategy.

[Veqryn]

When i first started playing revised, we would always buy factories in sikiang and india as allies.  But a smart Japanese player purchases a factory and a transport first turn, along with attacking China with everything, while landing your fighters where the factory is going.  Basically, you can make Japan’s life tough for about all of 2 turns, but after that Japan will get 2 free factories in great locations.

The best strategy i’ve found to counter Japan is to draw out all their forces along the long road to Russia, then when they get within one space of moscow or caucasus, crush them with Russian forces.  Basically, they will be so far away from Japanese Factories, and their moves so telegraphed ahead of time, that you can easily hold them off each turn as Russia for the rest of the game.  Russia can do this of course because their income will be 31 or more, because the allies are hitting Germany big time in the west and Africa.  (Move 6 russian infantry in buryatia first turn, and 4 uk inf into India first turn.  Second turn abandon bury for yakut, and if needed abandon India and Sikiang.  Then keep abandoning territories whenever you would lose overwhelmingly to Japan, but hold put if you think they can’t attack you yet, remembering that they have 7 fighters and a bomber.)

[Zhukov44]

@Veqryn:

i do think it is hard on UK to lose the BB and Transport, but i would almost rather the Germans do that, risking losing their fighter in the process, than commit to such a low probability attack on norway.  However, i have included your possibilities in my new threat on Allied strategies.

I’m a little confused on a rules issue…can Germany opt to not attack the Russian sub and thus go with 1 sub 1 fig 1 bomb against the single bb?  If so that’s a serious problem for Allies.  Still, if Axis commits those units maybe that creates an opening somewhere else (like Africa).

I doubt a high-risk attack on Norway is the solution for  Allies.  That would be pretty lame if each game came down to whether a 59% R1 attack suceeded.

[Veqryn]

No, the Russian sub is there and gets to defend against the German sub (however, it can not be taken as a casualty from the Airplane shots), which means it gets to be taken as a casualty from the shot from the German sub, and it gets to shoot back at the German sub at a measly 1 out of 6.  (also note that if the Germans are doing this attack, that means the bomber is not attacking Egypt)

Basically, its a very dicey battle, with the Germans shooting at 7 points of air and 2 points of submarine, while the Allies defend at 4 points and 1 point of submarine.  
The Germans have a 17% chance of getting no air hits.
A 50% chance of getting one air hit.
and a 33% chance of getting 2 air hits in the first round (killing BB)
and also a 33% chance of hitting the Russian submarine.
Which basically comes out to this: 50% chance of scoring 2 hits in general

The allies have a 27% chance of hitting nothing the first round.
A 62% chance of sinking the German submarine.
and an 11% chance of sinking the German submarine + a German Fighter.

In the end, around half of the battles, Germany will only lose the German sub to a hit from the battleship, while sinking the Battleship and Transport AND leaving the Russian submarine alive.  About a third of the time, Germany will lose a Fighter and a Submarine, but will also Kill the BB, Transport, and submarine.  (TripleA doesn’t do a good job calculating this battle as it assumes that any hits from the submarine will go first to the Battleship as its first free hit, rather than to the russian submarine, which is what a good player would do)
But you have to remember, this is a very very dicey battle.  Because the number of units involved is so low in number, it could easily get f-ed up very quickly.  You could easily lose your submarine and fighter without getting a single hit.  Yes, if you roll this battle 20000 times it will be only a smaller percentage of times that that happens, but it could so easily happen anyway.

(and yes, larry probably should have made that Russian submarine into a Russian destroyer for this reason)

[Canuck12]

Interesting discussion of the finer points of the eatern front… but there were 2 things that went undiscussed.

Perhaps this thread is dead but I must ask Karl Parsons two simple questions that I believe are the keys to the game:

You said the Axis wins every time.

#1 Did they control even part or Africa for any significant length of time? (4 IPCs for 2 turns?)
#2 Was Germany being decimated by at least 3, hopefully 4 SBR per turn?

Because if Germany was not strategically bombed every turn with every bomber that didnt have something better to do, OR if Germany controlled more than a couple IPCs in Africa for a turn or two they will likely win the game.

I have found it very difficult to loose as the allies if you stick to these 2 basic tennants: Control Africa and SBR Germany.

Any thoughts all?

[Veqryn]

well, let me add one thing on to that…

Control Africa -> Yes, control most of it anyway.  Keep Germany to Algeria, Libya and Egypt but not any further or you will lose the game in the long run

SBR Germany -> Yes, but don’t waste all your money on bombers.  You can only do a maximum of 20 damage to Germany, and since they never repair it all the way, you can realistically only do 16 damage per turn to Germany.  This requires only 5 bombers total hitting Germany every turn.  I would never buy more than 1 bomber per turn as the UK or USA because you ALSO need boots on the ground.

You need to add:

Take Norway, North Africa, Liberate Karelia, + Have a UK fleet in the Baltic and USA fleet in the Med -> This forces Germany to defend every territory in Europe, and it will have to spread its forces thin and can not continue to hit Russia if you are hitting it.  (The Baltic Sea touches Western Europe, Germany, Norway, Karelia, and Eastern Europe.  A fleet in SZ12 off Algeria can hit Western Europe and Southern Europe / Italy, while a fleet in SZ14 can also liberate Libya, Egypt, Transjordan, The Balkans, Ukraine, and the Caucasus.)

[Anonymous_User]

R1 -you MUST take Norway.  Only way to allow the UK BB to survive.  UK cannot afford to lose it.  Russia can’t afford to lose the fighter, either, but oh well.  :(

This also means you probably won’t have the power to attack Ukraine.

This really set Russia back.

G1 - they counter lightly on the russian front.  They build up their navy in the baltic.  AC+ others.  Possibly transports.

Now, on UK R1, they have the threat of Germans landing in their capitol, the large baltic navy defending the sea, and any hope of decent naval help from USA is a round+ away.

Sea lion is much too easy in this version.  Russia doesn’t have the financial capabilities of hitting hard into Germany with Japan building IC in Asia.  US is busy trying to defen UK and forsaking Africa.

I don’t think a good axis player can lose.

[Tragedy]

@KarlParsons:

Hi,

I am a semi-noob at A&A, I bought A&A:E in the early 2000s and have now just purchased A&A:1942.   I’ve played about 5 games and each game the axis has won, the strategy being Germany invades West Russia, Japan attacks East Russia, and as long as Germany has some naval units taking out transports trying to come into France or Italy as well as guarding the east coast with just enough defending units, the allies can’t get on land.  Then once Russia is gone, with the IPCs gained it’s only a matter of time before it’s all over.

My question is, as the allies I don’t see how to win with enough time before Germany and Japan take out Russia completely and also being able to successfully doing a land invasion in time, in either eastern europe or the island of Japan.  I guess I’m just missing something, are there any basic ideas/tips you can give me to help and avoid this same scenario over and over again?

Russia needs support from U.K. in India & Karelia/Archangel and from the U.S. in Sinkiang (<– This can be tough).
The Eastern Front is Yakut, Sinkiang and India.
The Western Front is Karelia, West Russia, Caucasus.
^ Keep those Fortified.
If you don’t want a Turn Break Down Stop Reading Now.  :|

Russia

• Buy 8 Infantry
• Attack West Russia with Arch, and Karelia + 2 Planes.
• Move everything in Russia into Caucasus, put 1 in Archangel. Group 8 troops in Yakut.
• 2 into Sinkiang, 2 into Persia
• Land Planes in INDIA <-- This is key.
• Build 4 Inf at each I.C.

U.K.

• Buy 2 Industrial Complexes.
• If Germany didn’t beef up the Baltic fleet, use your Planes to sink the Transport/ Destroyer.
• You Must sink the Japanese transport in 59 (To avoid a Naval Bombardment in India).
    * I usually sacrifice my Cruiser in 35 to do this. Its a bad trade off, but it usually means securing India which is worth it. Instead you can use your plane in 35 and land it in China. Not a terrible move but I prefer to move the plane into India for added security.
• Place Industrial complex in South Africa and India.
• By the time U.K. goes on turn 2 Germany could have capped most of Africa (If they have 2 tanks). Don’t give up on Africa. Contesting Africa is critical.
   * Always build 2 units if possible, until the German Med fleet is destroyed. If your tight on IPC’s keep pumping out Infantry to thwart a capture. If a large force is approaching buy fighters. Keep the Carrier and transport nearby.
• ^ Same goes for India. Always build what you need to keep it safe from a building threat. At the end of the previous Russia turn always check if Caucasus can spare a tank(s) for an India defense.
• It can be tricky allocating IPC’s between Keeping U.K., South Africa, and India secure early on, but its doable.
• Depending on what Germany is doing always look for opportunities to either take Norway, Liberate/Support Karelia/Archangel (Liberating/Supporting Karelia takes a lot of pressure off Russia, if u can spare the 2 planes from U.K. land them their (if u have fodder their)).
• Move infantry from Persia to India.

U.S.

• Move your Bomber to the U.K. and begin bombing Southern Europe next turn. Always try to have at least 2 Bombers in U.K.

• You have 2 turns to amass your navy and load up your transports. Taking longer then 2 turns to have an impact on the war is too long ime.

• It depends what the Axis has done to decide which way to go.

• Buying an Air Craft Carrier, Industrial Complex, and Transport is usually a good choice.

• Get everything to S.Z. 10 load it up and go to 12 on your third turn. Sea Zone 12 is a tactically important Sea Zone imo.

• When you get to 12 with your navy (Battleship, Cruiser, Destroyer, 2 Aircraft Carriers, 4 Planes, possibly the Sub and 4 fully loaded transports) look for weakness’s in the German defense. If you have the advantage always destroy the Mediterranean fleet (This relieves the U.K. in Africa).

• Place the Industrial Complex in Sinkiang (Before you place this complex make sure you will not loose it when Japan goes!)
   * This probably involves Russia landing its 2 planes from India in Sinkiang (Russia may need the planes to attack, but being conservative to lock down Sinkiang on turn 2 is Huge), and 2 Infantry from Novosibirsknyyyyy.
   * Possibly the U.K. fighter.
   * Talk to your Allies make absolutely sure they are willing and capable of doing this.
   * Basically figure out what you will need to defend both Sinkiang and India if Japan decides to throw everything it has against either territory and divide the planes accordingly. <— Do this DURING Russia’s Non-Combat Movement Phase (take into account what U.K. will be purchasing for India). If Germany’s main force isn’t in Ukraine chances are Russia can spare tanks until U.S. builds up Sinkiang.

• Place your Industrial Complex in Sinkiang, and always build 2 of whatever you need to keep it safe. Most likely Tanks or Fighters.
   * If you don’t feel comfortable placing your I.C. in Sinkiang place it in Brazil. This will support your Navy and help U.K. with Africa. I would recommend building an I.C. in Brazil on your next turn or whenever you get the chance. Keeping an Air Craft Carrier parked their, allows you to build planes and get them to your navy to replenish the ones you lost.

• When u pull everything East, Japan will probably go for Alaska, or Midway, just make sure you build enough fodder in Western to prevent an invasion.

• Placing I.C.s on the Eastern front can be game breaking for both sides. If Allies hold, and keep them fortified Japan can fall into a stalemate. If Japan overthrows and takes control, its onto Russia’s weak underbelly.
   * Don’t forget to watch what Yakut needs for reinforcements. Try to keep a pipeline of 2 Russian infantry (as a minimum) building in Russia, staging in Novosibirsk, and then reinforcing either Yakut or Sinkiang depending on what Japan is doing. Yakut S.S.R. will be the weakest target for Japan to break through.

• Hope that Helps.  :-D