Allies lose every game.

[DarthMaximus]

I’ve started to notice myself getting a better feel for the Allies, it took some losses to weed out bad ideas but I’m getting there.

The early turns are magnified in AA50 and dice in rd 1-2 play a much bigger role.  That is where the Advantage comes from, not the setup.  If Ger wins Sz 2 and Egy the Adv shifts to the Axis, if Ger loses one of the two, I’d say you’re in for a 50/50 game, if they lose both Adv Allies.
Egy is more important than Sz 2 but a good showing in Sz 2 can overcome the Allied loss in Egy.

Some helpful notes:

Russia
-if you can hold Kar on R1 do it.  Bonus if you can take Fin as well.  This likely means you can attack Bst on R1
-if you can’t counter Bst, consider a UK ftr to help hold Kar to prevent a G2 attack.
-deadzone Kar if you really want to take Fin and Ger stacked Bst heavy
-buy at least 3 arm if you deadzone Kar, you can buy Rt if you feel you can hold Kar so you can use them to take back Belo/Eukr/Ukr if needed.

UK/US
-on UK 1 always buy an AC and at least 1 trn
-it is a good idea to get a US AC for the Altantic on US 1 as well.
-on UK/US 2 take Nor and place more ships in Sz 3 (or have the US take Nor on US 2)
-whichever power plans on taking Nor have the other one take Alg as heavy as possible.

From here on one power should always be sending something to the Nor/Fin/Kar area while the other takes out the Ita fleet (hopefully Rd 3) and supports northen Afr.

In the meantime the Allied ships in the Pac can all move back to Sz 56 where you can mix in a few sub buys to protect the West coast and still threaten Car Is with your UK trn and troops.

The Big Russian NO is doable, particularly if you take Fin in Rd 1 and Nor in Rd 2.

[jemo81]

@General:

I’m still losing with the allies to skilled axis players.  :(  Try Try Try again.

I cant get an invasion force going until turn 3 at the earliest and even then russia is on its knees. :(

what is your approach and buys with russia.
you usually get 30+ (i very rarely go below 30 with nos) which COULD be used to buy 1 bomber (12), 1inf (3), 1 tank for mobility and cost free blitzability(5). that costs 20 ipc total, and then the rest could be used on cheap units with a bit firepower such as 2 inf supported with 1 art at the price of 10 ipc total. Again I would recomend against buying fighters instead of bombers IF the axis is far from moscow as bombers range and kill-power are just so much better for the louzy 2 extra ipc. Of course if the axis is on the doorsteps, the 4 defensive dice for the fighters might be considered, but otherwise never if you ask me.
p.s. your are not building navy with russia are you? (joke, but just making sure)

[tarkonis]

@Fighter:

@General:

I’m still losing with the allies to skilled axis players.  :(  Try Try Try again.

I cant get an invasion force going until turn 3 at the earliest and even then russia is on its knees. :(

what is your approach and buys with russia.
you usually get 30+ (i very rarely go below 30 with nos) which COULD be used to buy 1 bomber (12), 1inf (3), 1 tank for mobility and cost free blitzability(5). that costs 20 ipc total, and then the rest could be used on cheap units with a bit firepower such as 2 inf supported with 1 art at the price of 10 ipc total. Again I would recomend against buying fighters instead of bombers IF the axis is far from moscow as bombers range and kill-power are just so much better for the louzy 2 extra ipc. Of course if the axis is on the doorsteps, the 4 defensive dice for the fighters might be considered, but otherwise never if you ask me.
p.s. your are not building navy with russia are you? (joke, but just making sure)

Yea man I R1 all sub buy! :P Just kidding  :evil:

I usually just buy all tanks.

[jemo81]

all tanks does not sound too bad. as long as you invest in some heavy firepower and don’t go all inf, then it should be okay i would say.

have you tried other approaches than the 6 tank build - e.g. the bomber approach?

[tarkonis]

Nope I haven’t tried a bomber.  I just see 2 tanks being better than 1 bomber.  What would I back it with?

All I see is in R3 is 9 German tanks on karellia and 10 German tanks in Poland.  I don’t know how to counter that without help.  I try to open the western front as soon as possible to divert some of the German panzer spam. I have started using the optional rule of closing the black sea… That way Italy cant use its units on a suicide attack to help the Germans overpower russia.  That makes it a bit fairer for russia…

But to balance it I also use the rule where you must own Gibraltar/Algeria to gain access to the med and also north west Europe to gain access to the Baltic.

My brother beat me playing allies using these rules… it helps to stop the Italians can opening the Russians for the Germans to blitz through next turn.

[jemo81]

@General:

Nope I haven’t tried a bomber.  I just see 2 tanks being better than 1 bomber.  What would I back it with?

All I see is in R3 is 9 German tanks on karellia and 10 German tanks in Poland.  I don’t know how to counter that without help.  I try to open the western front as soon as possible to divert some of the German panzer spam. I have started using the optional rule of closing the black sea… That way Italy cant use its units on a suicide attack to help the Germans overpower russia.  That makes it a bit fairer for russia…

But to balance it I also use the rule where you must own Gibraltar/Algeria to gain access to the med and also north west Europe to gain access to the Baltic.

My brother beat me playing allies using these rules… it helps to stop the Italians can opening the Russians for the Germans to blitz through next turn.

If germany is able to have that many tanks i r3, then your uk/us effort towards france seem to be in ruins. In my perspective uk and perhaps us (depending on outcome with japan and general mood) should always force the germans to divide their troops to avoid the allies getting a foothold on mainland europe (france typically).
Regarding the bomber, then you should use …infantery of course, since you are russia and have a s…load of then and they don’t cost that much. buy a bomber pr round for 2 or 3 rounds.

we never play with the optional rule of closing the black sea. In relation to the italians, try building 3 bombers in round 1 with the us, and in round 2 you can have 5 bombers in london ready to kill the italian navy. in round 2 the us could/should launch a force against north africa to prevent an italian no. Italy MUST DIE asap (and if not possible prevent then from getting their NOs as this enables the germans to forget about france and let italy do it for them). hence the 5 US bombers. perhaps even combine then with a sub or 2 to force the italians to build naval units (destroyers).

If the germans are still to strong consider SRB from london. Just realised that my comments may be quite fragmented; sorry for that. But in any case, get scandinavia asap, as it is a pain in the a… for germany to retake and you then only need 1 more territory for russia to get their 10 NO bonus.

[tarkonis]

Thanks for your help mate your comments are appreciated.

I’ll see how it goes using your suggestions.

[bugoo]

My basic plan is for the US to push in the south (africa/italy), UK to push in the north (poland, nwe, finland, kar), and for russia to push in the south (romania, ukraine, persia).  The details may change, but that is my general normal plan.

[jemo81]

@bugoo:

My basic plan is for the US to push in the south (africa/italy), UK to push in the north (poland, nwe, finland, kar), and for russia to push in the south (romania, ukraine, persia).  The details may change, but that is my general normal plan.

4 US bombers or more attacking from london r3 should be abel to take out the italian navy. perhaps coupled with some subs or as destryer or two. always a good plan to prevent italy from their bonus

[Bardoly]

@Fighter:

4 US bombers or more attacking from london r3 should be abel to take out the italian navy. perhaps coupled with some subs or as destryer or two. always a good plan to prevent italy from their bonus

Not if Italy builds up its navy.

[jemo81]

well… actually YES. US can afford it much better than italy + if italy build up then it means that no or very few landunits are being build which is also very nice for the allies. should any naval units survive a us bombing raids with 4-5+ bombers then uk is very likely to be able to take the remaining part of the italian navy out.

[Bardoly]

@Fighter:

well… actually YES. US can afford it much better than italy + if italy build up then it means that no or very few landunits are being build which is also very nice for the allies. should any naval units survive a us bombing raids with 4-5+ bombers then uk is very likely to be able to take the remaining part of the italian navy out.

Perhaps.  It depends on the location of the Italian navy and if Japan has brought naval units into the Mediteranean Sea to help out or not.

I’m not trying to just argue for the sake of arguing.  I do understand that if the Allies make it their absolute sole goal to sink the Italian navy, then it’s going to be sunk, but if they are doing so, then what are Germany and Japan doing?

[jemo81]

I understand you :)

but the nice aspect of the bombers is that they are multipurpose and can be used for SBR on germany also or be combined with transporters perhaps (of course i can always vary and would depend on what the japanese are doing etc)

finally if the US supplements their bombers with some subs then japan would need to send alot to succeed in helping the italians. and if the us should get heavy bombers then the axis navy is the med. is deeply f…ed in any case.

[panzer666]

I would like t know how the allies can win.A better shuck from usa to france the the only thing else i can think of.usa must shuck from eastern canada and take out france every turn,while england takes over norwayand works from there.

axis have to much power.with germany pounding the russians right to the gates of moscow(with tanks) the japs will land there for the final blow.

Hard to beat Japan with 9 aircraft,3 carriers and 5 trannys!!!

[Omega]

You dont have to trade France everytime. All you have to do, is build a strong fleet of transports with troops, set them in position to invade either France or Italy. Have UK build a fleet that can invade both France and Germany. See how the Axis do now! Germany will have to dedicate most of his resources to defend himself. Eventually, his troops on the East won’t have any backup. This will leave an open road to Russia to take back some territories while concentrating most of his remaining forces in slowing Japan. Once Europe falls into the hand of the Allies, the game is pretty much over. And don’t say allies lose every game because this isn’t true. Look at the tournament results if you don’t believe in what I say. Axis might have an advantage, but winning is certainly not impossible

Robert

[Adalwolf]

@General:

Hi there…

When I play as Allies I lose everytime against a good axis player.

Funny, I have just the opposite reaction.  The Axis lose alot more than the Allies.  Italy by far is the weak link of the Axis Powers.  Concentrate on the Allies coming up through the bowels of Italy and you’ll have no problem with Germany later in the game.

[panzer666]

I now believe allies have the advantage with an IC in SA.A pull out in the pacific.A all transport /ground build by USA.However ,I just choose to take out Italy via france by USA.I choose to remain on the defensive with the Italian fleet.Even if the jap fleet joins them in the med,they won’t take out the allies(depending on a lucky roll though).I read how some people thik you have to take it out ,not me .

[Jennifer]

Best buy ever!  Russia buys 4 Submarines, 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery round 1!  (Build submarines in SZ 16, then hit the Italians!)

Wouldn’t say SMARTEST BUY, but it is the BEST BUY! (Cause it’s so outlandishly insane it causes everyone at the table to guffaw and snort beer out their noses!)

---

I don’t see the allies winning or losing every game.  However, I can say that going for LRA/HB is not a win either, you can do it just as well without tech (Ask Botider, I’m doing it in a no tech game, he’s not gone a single round in I don’t know how many rounds without max to almost max dmg to all European factories.)

[Woodstock]

@dondoolee:

@Subotai:

It seems like the game designers thought that if every axis attack goes as planned then they would win…and succed to conquer the world……which might have happened in the real WW2.

But for the game balance using NOs, just give the allies 2 units and place them in Egy and Karelia, from rnd2 the allies need to strike back, attack and repell, and keep the production advantage. If axis don’t get superior economy from rnd2 or rnd3, the allies will win, just like a typical Revised game w/o bids.

That is certainly the most irksome thing to me about this game.  The amount of high probablity attacks the Axis can make and win on T1.  If most succede the Allies are doomed.  This probably happens to the allies in my game 1/3 - 1/4 of the games.  Makeing that many games a virtual moot point after J1.  I wish there was a way to design an AA without being so T1 heavy (at least for opening moves, maybe not purchas), but I fear that may be an impossabilty due to the mechanics of the game.

Should be possible. Just remove all units outside the capitals, give all nations a fat wallet to begin with, and have everyone start their campaign of war the way they like it. This would require a whole lot of long term planning, action/reaction to what the other bought…but no decisive first round battles, as there are no battles untill turn 3 or 4.

Sure…might not be the most exciting 3 or 4 first rounds, but it could make for an interesting game.

[Jennifer]

Allies can win, and I think it all boils down to what America does after seeing how well Germany and Japan do in round 1.

If Japan got mauled, then a fast hit in the Pacific can really screw up the Axis.  Otherwise, a shuck into Africa is a good way to start, followed by a shuck into Scandinavia/France with doubled up Transports.  Heck, transports are CHEAPER now and you have MORE money than in Revised, and we routinely had 10 to 12 transports with America in the Atlantic there, so why can’t we here?