Cutting the Italian legs out from under the axis

[bugoo]

The big problem with Italy is you can’t do anything on your own.  But you are the Russian of the Axis.  Leave you alone and you can come back to bite them, and you can cost the Allies alot of time and money as they try to kill you.  And just like Russia, if your fellow Axis back you up, they can make you last alot longer.  Weather it is Japan’s navy protecting yours, or Germany pounding on egypt, without there help you are lost.

[ogrebait]

@Trisdin:

So you are saying that Germany should send a small force to Africa to help Italy and in turn Italy should help Germany in Europe?

Italy generally needs Germany’s help in Africa early, and Germany needs Italy’s help in Europe later. It’s mainly a timing issue.

[Jennifer]

IMHO:

Italy needs to look out for itself early in the game.  Primary goals in the beginning should be getting the national objectives and taking out Africa.

After that has been accomplished, Italy needs to decide if Germany needs them to take Ukraine in the East or Stack France with defenders and free up Germans to move east.

That really depends on how the game has progressed.  Sometimes Italy needs to take Ukraine so Germany can follow up with fighters to defend it and then can stack France.  Sometimes Italy just cannot even get Africa established and thus can’t do much of anything.  Sometimes, Germany’s doing well and could use the extra troops to finish off Russia faster so Italy can just dump 6 units a round into the defense of France.

Other things I’ve seen Italy do:

Take Australia
Take Brazil
Sink the British Navy
Take China (1942 game with A44bigdog, see link in my signature.)

[Bigtiti]

@shifty:

It seems that each time I’ve played that the Axis have won, Italy has played SOME sort of role during the course of the battle.  Whether it’s taking Africa, pounding Cauc, help against UK navy, taking islands, or just providing extra defense in EU, Italy always plays its part.

I know that this is an IF situation and probably not original, but i haven’t seen it here in the forum so I figured i’d throw it out here.  Anyways, If Germany doesn’t attack SZ12 and the Egyptian fighter survives, I’ve found attacking the Italian fleet with the UK Cruiser, Bomber, Fighter, Destroyer severely inhibits Italy from doing much of anything the rest of the game.  I realize that the chances of success (Italy losing all units) is only about 60%, but putting them down 51 ipcs when they are only making 10 is worth the loss in units and UK makes enough early game to easily replace that loss.

I’ve manage to try it twice and it worked both times.  After that, the other players in my group caught on and began attacking SZ12 w/subs (thus letting my battleship survive) or fighters/bomber which at least took out some of the Germany air and kept them distracted.

i just take gibraltar and leave tranny where it started
know, i’m no fan of egypt attack
saw it a few times go horribly wrong

[TimTheEnchanter]

@Cmdr:

As for insulting the intelligence of others, I have never done so…
…Certain in-duh-viduals…

:lol: It takes some serious gall to put those two statements in the same paragraph and even attempt to sound serious about it. :lol:

[Jennifer]

in-duh-viduals is not an insult of the intelligence of others.  It’s a loving homage to the valiant and graceful works of Scott Adams, Tim!

---

Egypt can go badly, Frontovik, but you can retreat part of the German forces if you have too. (Anything that did not come by transport can retreat.)

However, if you leave the transport in SZ 14, you can use it with Italy saving you some Italian cash!

[Young Grasshopper]

@Cmdr:

However, if you leave the transport in SZ 14, you can use it with Italy saving you some Italian cash!

Thats a good idea however, it takes a special kind of axis player to pull off the German transport with Italian troops convoy to Africa (round after round) as the order of play in 41 makes it tricky.

[U-505]

@Cmdr:

Why should he?  You and U-505 and the others never admit when they are wrong, and you guys are often wrong.

How exactly did I get dragged into this?

But, just to be clear. Monotonously repeating the same faulty logic doesn’t make you right any more the last time you post it than it does the first time you post it. I have no reason to admit I’m wrong when you use that garbage tactic.

Yes, Page 11 does state it is an optional rule.  It is the very first time that tech has been optional.  It was a stupid move on the part of the game manufacturer.

No. It was a smart move by the manufacturer because it allows the real strategists to keep the yachtzee style gambling aspect out of the game. The dice in combat is gambling enough without having to worry about your opponent rolling one die and getting heavy bombers or any of the other techs that unbalance the game.

As for insulting the intelligence of others, I have never done so.

I can say from personal experience that this is a bald faced lie.

@ogrebait:

The answer of which comes first depends a lot on what the Allies and Germany do. The first issue is whether the Italian Navy survived UK1. If they didn’t, you are pretty much stuck with reinforcing Europe until Germany and Japan can secure the Med.

If the Navy is alive, then Italy should almost always make an initial bid for Africa & TRJ to secure the Suez and gain an NO. What happens next depends on how strong the Allies press into Africa and how well the German assault on Russia is going. If the Russian front is going well for Germany, an Italian assault via the Black Sea can quicken the end. If the Allies are not putting up a big fight in Africa (which means they are probably pressing Germany and/or Japan), then feel free to pillage Africa for IPCs.

I beginning to think that Italy is one of the hardest countries to play well. It involves a little luck and a great deal of initial help from Germany and then Japan. The greatest challenge for the Italian player is to build a critical mass of units and IPCs so he/she can remain relevant for the rest of the game.

From the Allied perspective, I think pounding down Italy should be one of their primary objectives early in the game. If the Italian Navy is eliminated and Italy rolled back to 9 IPCs/turn, the battle for Europe can quickly turn against the Axis.

This has been my general policy from the beginning and I find it hard to add anything relevant except:

If Italy can manage to control the majority of Africa for long enough to consistently make 20+ IPC per turn then depending on the defensive infantry needs for France, it becomes possible for Italy to make a purchase of 1 or 2 aircraft every turn for a couple of reasons(UK or Rus SBR’s, threatening a 1-2 punch on Allied fleets). Usually this is improbable because either the Allies are challenging them for Africa or Europe is under heavy pressure and the Axis needs every ground unit it can muster for defense, but it is never out of the realm of possibility.

[axis_roll]

@U-505:

@Cmdr:

As for insulting the intelligence of others, I have never done so.

I can say from personal experience that this is a bald faced lie.

LOL.  Yes, Jenn has NEVER insulted anyones intelligence in those 29,000 posts.

NEVER

I agree with U-505:
I can say from personal experience that this is a bald faced lie.

[deadbunny]

And I guess I need not say a word, just read the above post. Little do I post but it seems like I’m obliged.