AARHE 4.1: Optional rules

[Imperious Leader]

This thread is for compiling the various 5.0 text for AARHE

National Unit Characteristics: ( as per revised values)

Soviet Union:
2 infantry cost 5 IPC. If you buy an odd amount the cost is still 3 for them.

Mechanized infantry: 3-2 move 2 cost 5, these may transport one art or one inf two spaces

Starting tanks and tanks built on turn 1 are at 3-2 ( cost 5), starting on turn 2 built tanks are 3-3

Fighters are 3-3 and cost is 8

Bombers are 3-1 and cost is 12

Soviets may not build battleships or carriers

Germany:

Infantry may buy 3 infantry for 8 IPC

Armor are at 4-3 and cost 6 Tanks are boosted by fighters +1 at 1:1 basis

Mechanized Infantry:  3-2 move 2 cost 5, these may transport one art or one inf two spaces.

Fighters are at 4-3 and move 5

Bombers SBR rolls are at +1

submarines cost -1

2+ or more subs in the same sea zone get a ENR attack modifier of +1

One German Battleship attacks and defends at 5

One Cruiser attacks and defend at 4

England:

Mechanized Infantry: 2-2-4 –move 2 these may transport one art or one inf two spaces

Armor are 3-2 units for the rest of game

fighters are 3-4

Bombers get a +2 SBR die modifier

USA:

All infantry move 2 spaces

Armor are 3-3

Mechanized Armor: 3-2-5 these may transport one art or one inf two spaces

Artillery move 2

Fighters 4-3-5

Bombers 4-2-7 +3 on SBR attack roll

Transports cost -1

Carriers cost -1

Japan:

Japanese infantry on small islands and Japan defend at 3 on all rounds

all Japanese tanks are 3-2 cost 5

Mechanized infantry 2-2 cost 5 move 2  these may transport one art or one inf two spaces

All original fighters are 4-3 and move 6, all others built are at 3-3 but still move 6

One Japanese battleship takes 3 hits and is a 5-5 unit

Japanese destroyers or cruisers cost -1

Italy:

All tanks are 3-2

Mechanized infantry is 2-2-5 these may transport one art or one inf two spaces

fighters are 3-3

bomber is 3-1

battleships are 3-4 units but cost -2 IPC

China:

the Chinese fighter is replaceable if destroyed but it takes 2 turns to arrive and IPC is deducted from US totals.

One infantry is placed each turn in each unoccupied territory.

comment? suggestions?

[tekkyy]

hm, 5.0 already?
each 1.0 increment should represent major changes
not tweaks and simplifications

its been “4.0 draft” since Feb 2008
think the result of the current rule revising should be called “4.0 final”
then do some solid playtesting, particularly between you and me

don’t keep skipping ahead and leave behind a trail of meaningless documents

[Imperious Leader]

ok ill make it 4.1

[Emperor_Taiki]

you could convert the whole system to d12 instead of d6, then you could have really accurate representations of unit quality
I have also alwasy thaught it was strange for airbourne infantry defend on 2 when they dont have the heavy weapons that infatry and artillery have

they would attack and defend on 3 in a d12 system

[Imperious Leader]

d12 is too radical. Thats an Advanced Axis and Allies concept anyway.

I do have some new ideas.

[Imperious Leader]

Strategic Redeployment:  (rewritten)

During your turn in the NCM phase count up your total adjusted placement capacity for all your factories and divide by 2.

The adjusted total reflects any damage from SBR and is rounded down for the purposes of this count.

The value equals the total number of additional land movements that can be made even if these units moved in the combat movement phase.

Each land unit moves at double speed within contiguously connected territories. These may even be units that had just taken a new territory as a result of combat.

If you have an empty transport you can bridge up to that capacity a number of units across ONE sea zone onto another land zone. So if UK owns france and has 2 transports and 4 SR points cleared, they can transfer 4 more units to france from UK.

This only works with one intervening sea zone.

Heavy Cruisers:
this is a standard 3-3 cruiser but has a 2 hit capacity like a Battleship. Cost is 16

Fortifications:
It defends preemptively at two rolls of 3. It does not move and costs 8. It must be manned by at least one infantry and this infantry also defends. Only Artillery or Bomber hits can destroy a fortification and the fortification takes 2 hits to kill. Infantry inside cannot be destroyed until the fortification is also destroyed.

Mechanized Infantry as standard pieces:  Any nation can now build Mech. Infantry that attack or defend at 2, move 2, cost 4. They are considered non-infantry for transport purposes.

Fighter Defense/Escort: During SBR attacks the defending player can bring in planes to fight against bombers defending at a 2. The attacker can bring in escorts to escort his bombers and they attack at 1. The maximum number of defending planes cannot exceed the total number of attacking air units including bombers. Only one round of air combat occurs prior to SBR rolls. The attacker can not bring in more escorts than bombers. Note: The AA gun rolls only against the bombers and not against the escorting fighters.

Fighter-Bomber as standard pieces: Any nation can build them for 8 IPC and they attack at 3 and defend at 2 and move 4 spaces. They can be placed on carriers at same capacity as fighters. These have a special ability on defense. If they are adjacent to attacked land territories they may assist (using their defense factor) in land combat starting on the first combat round. They can retreat with other defending units after any complete combat round.

new unit list:

Mech. Infantry 2 2 2 4 +1 MP Inf /Art
Heavy Tanks 2 4 5 8 Build 1 per turn
Fighter-Bomber 4 3 2 8 SB at 50%
Escort Carrier 2 0 1 8 1 Fighter
Battlecruiser 2 4 4 14 1-hit, SB @ 4
Fortification - - 3 twice 8 Only 1 per space, 1st shot

[Imperious Leader]

National Morale:

Each time you capture a new territory you gain 1 morale point.
Each time you lose an original starting territory you lose 2 morale points.

Each VC you capture you roll one D6 and add Morale points.
Each VC you lose you roll one D6 and subtract Morale points.

Every 2 points of Industrial damage causes the loss of one morale point.
Every 2 points of Industrial repair increases one morale point.

You lose you capital you lose double the IPC value of the territory in morale points.

When you morale is below Zero, roll one D6 each turn and if the result is ever less than zero with the modifier added in you have lost the game.

[Emperor_Taiki]

I like the fortification idea, but i think shore bombardment and tanks should be able to take out forts too

also, does it really make sense to give battlecrusiers less hit points than heavy crusiers and give heavy crusiers the same hit points as a battleship

I was looking on wikipedia for other world war II ship classes, have you ever thought about anit-aircraft crusiers.
Heavy crusiers would be kinda good at naval battles and great for shore bombardment, while what we would call light crusiers would have added air defence but defend and attack on two

just something to think about

this might be how i would do it
                 Cost    A    D    M
Destroyers       8    1    2     2 +ASW
transports       7                 2 +transports stuff
subs               6    2    1     2 + sub abilities
light cursiers    10   2    2    3 + some kind of air defence ability
Heavy crusiers 12   3     3    3 sb
Battlecrusiers   14   4    4    2 sb
Battleships       20  4     4    2 sb + 2 hits
AircraftCarriers 14   1     2   3  carrirs 2 fighter and stuff
Escort Carrier  8    0    1  2 or 3 carries 1 (edit: i forgot to put these on the list before)

I am also open to giving heavy crusiers and battlecrusiers 2 hits and battlships 3 hits, but that might be too complicated. also if crusiers get 2 hit points so should carriers

[Imperious Leader]

have you ever thought about anit-aircraft crusiers.

yes i have they are primary techs under my house rules. Its in the file

I allow then to roll a 1 before combat against planes, like aa guns

good that you point this out

I will study your list and come back

[Imperious Leader]

Unit Move Attack Defend Cost Notes
Mech. Infantry 2 2 2 4 +1 MP Inf /Art
Heavy Tanks 2 4 5 8 Build 1 per turn
Fighter-Bomber 4 3 2 8 SB at 50%
Escort Carrier 2 0 1 8 1 Fighter
Battlecruiser 3 4 4 15 1-hit, SB @ 3
Heavy Cruiser 2 3 3 14 2-hit, SB @ 2
Cruiser 2 3 3 10 1- Hit, SB @1
Fortification - - 3-3 8 Only 1 per space, 1st shot

i suggest this above

what you think?

OOB cruisers at 10 need some changes, so SB at 1
CA is @2
BC @3
BB @4

[Emperor_Taiki]

I dont think it is realistic that heavy crusiers have 2 hits when battlecrusiers only have one

[Imperious Leader]

A heavy cruiser is a protected cruiser with plating on the deck
a cruiser is basically a light cruiser ( though i am reluctant to use this name) its basically an upgunned destroyer

A Battlecruiser is also a type of fast battleship that traded heavy plating for speed. It cant take alot of damage, but it sure can serve alot of damage and use its speed to evade targeting guns.

Also the problem is the IPC costs need to be justified. if you look at my values and create sample battles using these units you will find great balancing done here.

If you note i have a technology that is improved carriers, which is a 2 hit carrier, with 3 planes and it moves 3…. now if you get this and also buy lots of fast battlecruisers, you got quite a fleet.

If i were to give the BC a 2 hit, where is the cost justified in even having this unit?

[Emperor_Taiki]

ok, for now these are good values

[Imperious Leader]

Escort Carrier 2 0 1 8 1 Fighter
Battlecruiser 3 3 3 17 2-hits, SB @ 3
Cruiser 2 3 3 10 1- Hit, SB @1, ASW

I got another to run battle sims and the problem is the 4-4 one hit ship wont fit in as a viable ship

I now favor a 2 hit 3-3 cruiser called a Battlecruiser and drop the cruiser down to 10 IPC.

In sims this BC unit performs slightly less to a BB in cost per value, but with the added movement of 3, so you have a strategic decision. Plus the 3-3 2-hit appears more like a Graf Spee type of Pocket Battleship.

If you rate the extra movement highly then drop the BB to 19 IPC, to make it a harder decision. I think the CVE is pretty much balanced with other units.

[Emperor_Taiki]

Ok, but then how about the Crusier is renamed Heavy Crusier, and there is also a light crusier peice that speacilizes in anti-aircraft fire.
I think you should bring back the naval AA fire rules from AARHE

AA Rolls
Battleship         2
Battlecrusier     1(becasue there older ships mainly desinged for fighting other c
Heavy Crusier   2
Light Crusier     2
Destoyer          0
Aircraft Carrer   1
Escort Carrier  1or 0

possible crusier stats
                  C    M  A  D  Speacial
Heavy Crusier 11  2  3  3  SB @2 ASW
Light Crusier  9    2  2  2  SB@1 ASW

I just want too include all the major ship classes. If we have Light and Heavy Crusiers, Battlecrusiers, and Escout Carriers added to the OOB units, we have not left anything out

I also think destoyers should be reduced 1-1 units that are cheaper. Also, what if subs only attacked a 1?

[Imperious Leader]

I love your idea, but im not sure all the AARHE ideas can be extrapolated or should be in AA50HE.

This version must be a simple fix and like 12 pages no more of ideas and that includes optional rules.

OK here we go:

BB 4-4-2-20 ( 2 hits SB @4)
CA 3-3-2-17 (2 hits SB @3)  ( Use MB AA battleships for this piece)
CL 3-3-2-10 ( 1 hit SB @1)  ( this is the new standard cruiser)
DD 2-2-2-8 ( ASW)

Each ship has the following special values:

BB= preemptive fire in all combat unless another battleship is present ( long range guns)
CA= If this unit rolls a two or less a plane is hit if involved
CL= If this unit rolls a one a plane is hit if involved
DD= ASW units no special AA defense
CV= If this unit rolls a one a plane is hit if involved
CVE= no special ability.

Your way makes airplanes go bye bye too easily. Remember we have ports to protect ships as well.

is this closer?

[Emperor_Taiki]

so we are getting rid of battlecrusiers/ or do they just not have an AA value
I think their should be at least one peice with a movement of 3

[Imperious Leader]

its just a name only and their is no room for 2 new cruiser types pieces. Lets just focus on one new ship so that all the people wont feel like " gee whats the point of all these new ships?"

I prefer the term Battlecruiser, because if we call the thing a heavy cruiser then the oob cruiser needs to be renamed a light cruiser and id prefer to avoid that, but its not the main concern. The main thing is the OOB cruiser needs to drop to 10 or the BB is way better buy according to battle sims.

Now that leaves a huge hole from 20 and 10 ipc, which means we still need the fill space, so i advise a 3-3 2 hit ship… something thats a bit cheaper so Italy or Germany might want one or Japan.

[tekkyy]

pree@Imperious:

BB= preemptive fire in all combat unless another battleship is present ( long range guns)

by the way the “unless another [enemy] battleship is present” bit was superseded and removed

shouldn’t say “all combat”, its inflexible as its unknown what the shore bombardment rules are going to be

[Imperious Leader]

ok always on then.