@Krieghund perfect - thank you very much!
Classic - some reflections
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side-note: Here are some images of the games I am talking about, to help illustrate my point:
Classic Map (for reference) (credit to @AcesWild5049):
http://www.mediafire.com/view/x2tq68bqzf9svnv/Axis Allies Board.jpgAxis & Allies 1941 Map (hosted by this site):
Axis & Allies Revised Map (hosted by this site. Note that this is not a 1:1 image of the gameboard, but an edit. The territories are the same as the actual game, though):
Axis & Allies Anniversary Map (credit to @Imperious-Leader):
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ec6a12bs4hpyamc/AA50_Suplreme_Edition.ai -
Wow, you are making homework of this topic Macgee.
I am not sure why you are still talking about this land issue situation. I enjoyed playing classic, but moved on to other maps, that are more realistic (or ‘not’) and better and larger in scale. I guess hirohito sidesteps the point that a game first of all has to be fun to play, not so much realistic. Its like when I started playing Risk, that was also not realistic, but it was sure as hell fun to play.
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Just googled for ‘map of the world’ and if you take a look at all the examples that are being given, most or not all of them show that the landmass of russia is the largest from east to west.
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@cds I was more trying to make the point that there’s tons of Axis & Allies maps out there beyond Classic in this day and age, so there has to be at least one game that will scratch your particular itch.
Some people still prefer Classic despite being aware of all the other scenarios. Even I prefer Revised and Anniversary over G40 (which is most peoples’ favorite).
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@hirohito22 good title for my post thank you guys.
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@DoManMacgee althoe I thank you for “12 march” detaild reply again your recommendations add regions.
similarly the maps in your later reply unjustly keep japan tanks away from Moscow or place Moscow “east” of true location unjustly aiding Moscow, at game start, when should be three steps from eat coast to Baltic not more and two steps in same turn to Moscow from pacific coast as in photos.
you mentioned ipc so I will specify: do you know any version that gives the allies accurate ipc as described below production potential? I mean considering that eastern soviet is bare icy land undeveloped the two larger [larger than classic] regions each barely worth one ipc. total for soviet : 10 for Moscow like berlin plus 3 plus one plus one should total 15 [not 24 in classic]. unless add china potential to soviet 2 and one for west china then 18 for soviet [not for u.s. as classic kuz china too far to truly aid America building warships] or better yet 15 for soviet as above but china potential for India so brit ipc total 10 for London same as berlin plus 3+1 Canada [no complaint] plus 3 regions Australia-size in Africa not including French west Africa which is named “French” hence Nazi ipc, same as Libya, and Madagascar but Madagascar and new Zealand undeveloped and small each zero ipc, plus Jordan river region and Persia each one [and correctly two steps for length] plus 3 India and 2 Australia total 24 [not 30 as classic] and if add china ipc to India then 27.
similarly brazil was nutral until 1945 so u.s should have 10 same as berlin plus 8 plus 2 Alaska total 20 [not 36 in classic] while Solomon like Hawaii both zero ipc. kuz brazil and mexico nutral and china far so its ipc for India. thanks.
and good title for our dialog “classic reflections.” -
@cds that does not change the fact as measured in my original post in photos of length calculation. I wish I could fix world map too but at least the game with “tank movement” we fans can fix.
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@cds to cds date 13 about fun. how can it be fun if map unjustly helps one side so I explain why it is unjust. if you know a map that fixes these issues please tell me or as fans we can influence the game producers. that is my point.
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@DoManMacgee both maps of date 12 unjustly keep japan tanks away from Moscow or place Moscow “east” of true location and east of caspian sea, this nt only aids Moscow buut unjustly aiding Moscow, at game start, when should be three steps from east coast to Baltic not more and two steps in same turn to Moscow from pacific coast as in photos of original post. as fans we can influence the production of a real game.
however I doubt allies would ever win if ipc were accurate so at least fix the map. thanks. -
@hirohito22 Your usage of the term “unjust” confuses me. Is English possibly your second language? “Unjust” typically implies bias or discrimination on the part of the designer of the game, as if Larry Harris intentionally designed the game to favor one side over the other.
That aside, let me attempt to summarize the things you’re looking for in an Axis & Allies game, aside from what’s already in Classic:
- 15-18 IPC for USSR
- 24-27 for UK
- 20 for USA
So you want these values for the Allies, but I’m not sure what values you want for the Axis. If you’re going to value the entire United States of America at “10” for IPC Value, you’d need to severely drop the IPC values for basically every other territory on the map, or increase the value of other territories.
The “Axis & Allies 1941” map I’ve shared is the only one that comes close to these lower IPC values. Every game after “Classic” (other than “Axis & Allies 1941” and “Axis & Allies & Zombies”) has gone with the approach of increasing IPC values for countries, rather than decreasing them.
The other issue you’ve raised in your comments is the inconsistent lengths that are represented by different tiles on the map of “Classic”. The later games resolve this issue by increasing the number of territories on the map (thus making distances consistent), but this is not what you want, it seems, because you want less territories, not more.
Moscow is not “east of the Caspian Sea” on the 1941 or Anniversary maps I posted above (you mentioned that I only posted 2 maps, but I posted 4. Please click the links in my last post). Tanks are also not “kept away from Moscow” in Revised or 1941. It only takes two rounds of tank moves for a Japanese Tank to reach from Manchuria -> Moscow in both games, assuming no Soviet units are in the way. That’s the exact same distance Tanks need to travel to get from Berlin -> Moscow. If anything, geographically speaking, the Japanese Tanks aren’t being kept far away enough from Moscow.
There’s no map that’s both historically accurate and compact. You’re going to have to choose one or the other. Additionally, we do not have the capacity to change the game’s official rules or maps. There are several users and threads on this forum dedicated to making customized maps and rulesets for individuals to use in their own games, but almost all of these focus on making the maps bigger, not smaller.
I apologize that I can’t be of more help to you on this front.
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Follow-up: Regarding the whole “lower IPC value thing”, the specific values for the 1941 game are as follows:
- USSR - 7
- Nazis - 12
- UK - 12
- Japan - 9
- USA - 17
And here’s a link to the setup page. https://www.axisandallies.org/resources-downloads/axis-allies-1941-setup-chart/
EDIT: Got USA’s starting income wrong. Thanks @Midnight_Reaper
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@DoManMacgee said in Classic - some reflections:
Follow-up: Regarding the whole “lower IPC value thing”, the specific values for the 1941 game are as follows:
- {snip}
- USA - 15
And here’s a link to the setup page. https://www.axisandallies.org/resources-downloads/axis-allies-1941-setup-chart/
Wizards of the Coast (WotC) changed the correct IPC amount of 17 to 15 in a printing error with the first printing of A&A 1941. The correct US IPC value for the US at the beginning of the game is 17.
You can find errata for current WotC A&A games on WotC’s Rules resource page. You can specifically download the errata sheet for A&A 1941 at http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/ah/AA_1941_FAQ.pdf.
I hope that helps.
-Midnight_Reaper
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@Midnight_Reaper Duh. It’s 17 if you actually sit down and count up the IPC values by-hand too. That’s what I get for being lazy.
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@DoManMacgee said in Classic - some reflections:
{Snip} That’s what I get for being lazy.
I would argue that the blame lays with WotC’s quality control department. That should never have gone out with that error. You should be able to trust what the game’s own documents tell you. You weren’t lazy, you trusted in WotC’s ability to QC their own work.
Fool me once, shame on you - Wizards of the Coast!
-Midnight_Reaper
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@Midnight_Reaper If you’ve ever played Magic the Gathering, you’d know not to trust WotC as far as you can throw them, lol.
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@hirohito22 said in Classic - some reflections:
@DoManMacgee both maps of date 12 unjustly keep japan tanks away from Moscow or place Moscow “east” of true location and east of caspian sea, this nt only aids Moscow buut unjustly aiding Moscow, at game start, when should be three steps from east coast to Baltic not more and two steps in same turn to Moscow from pacific coast as in photos of original post. as fans we can influence the production of a real game.
however I doubt allies would ever win if ipc were accurate so at least fix the map. thanks.IMO all Axis and Allies game pieces (in pretty much EVERY version of the game) merely represent a power’s ability to project military clout. In other words, its not literally a tank driving from Hanoi to Cairo in two turns, its that powers ability to project military strength into that area of the globe. The scale and simplicity are relative to the complexity.
There are more advanced, hex based games that will certainly satisfy your craving for the level of historical accuracy you seek.
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